Counter to the Mechanized Lists

[minigun762]

This is a topic for discussing ways to beat the ever growing trend of highly mechanized armies (armies where virtually everything either has an armor value or resides in something that does).

 

Lets start with the basics. Identifying the army's strengths and weaknesses. Then we'll work to exploit those weaknesses and minimize their strengths.

[DerekLee688]

Mechanized is popular as opposed to getting whacked by the ever multiplying number of artillery pieces, or just to get their troops to hit you before you hit them.

 

Generaly transports have little armor: rino's, wave serpents, ork truks, etc...

 

Lascannons, missle launchers, plasma weapons, autocannons, and battlecannons make fine can openers.

 

I've learned to embrace the transport or surrender my marines as fodder.

[Joshta]

This is my VERY VERY basic run down on 5th ed tanks. Tanks are a lot harder to pop in 5th ED. The combination of glancing and Pen tables means that glancing have a really bad shot of actually doing anything.

 

Transports allow a new level of speed to be brought into the mix, the game is now about who can grab objectives OR who can kill like no other. Putting transports in the game means that now the units can fly across the field at the last few seconds taking objectives. Certain transports like the Eldar Falcon, take this to the extremes as it can move up to 36" in one turn and tag objectives. Be very careful as a secured victory can quickly turn into a last turn contested draw.

 

Fast Vehicles allow the cat and mouse game. This is a simple game where one person conitinuously charges head long into the circular motion against faster units, and ultimately they will almost never be able to catch the faster unit. A great example is a CC dreadnaught trying to catch a Land Speeder. Every turn the Dreadnought runs closer while the speeder flies around it shooting and laughing. These fast vehicles tend to be easier to pop from range, but still You never wanna forget these fast transports can jump in and grab an objective on the last second of the last turn.

 

Non-transport tanks are a lot less scary to me, they do not have the ability to act as water units. You can almost always guess what the Hammerhead or Las pred is going to do. But they are tank killers, and you don't ever wanna put your tanks in LOS/Range of them unless their is a bigger reason. Anticipation is key with these guys.

 

Infantry Threats- generally you have CC tanks and nonCC tanks. Things that need to be up close and things that you want to make a giant person space bubble. Dreadnaughts, Land Raiders, REEDEMEERS! Defilers, hellhounds, transports carring CC troops are all great examples of things that need to be near things to generally do their job. BUT anytime you go next to an opposing infantry squad you need to ask 2 things, What does that squad have, and how does it affect me. Now CC is the easiest way to kill tanks. Bring a PF to a tank fight and you probably going to easily own the tank.

 

-Ending statement-

Don't fear tanks, Respect them....

[Escaflowne]

Easy.

Mechanized armies tend to add speed and durability at the cost of size.

 

The easiest way that I've found to stop tanks is the all mighty Multi-melta. Lascannons are great for long range potshots against MCs or ICs, and they will get hits on vehicles. However the +1 you get on the damage table for AP1 is easily more valuabel then the +1 S the Lascannon has over the Multi-melta. Add to it that if you get in close somehow, Multi-meltas open armor like nothing else can.

 

I tend to put Multi-meltas on my speeders, in my tac squads, and on my dreads. Some people use bikes instead of speeders, and use drop pods to get dreads/troops into range faster.

 

I also find Vulkan He'Stan is just great for wreaking the other side's armor. He makes all your melta weapons even nastier!

[Vel'Cona]

A big thing to remember in most mech armies is that their transports generally will not have more than AV12. While LR tend to mess with this idea a bit, almost every other race's transports are much easier to penetrate, or at least score results against. In this method, multiple shots at S7 or 8 are often more than enough to clear fast moving enemies in a hurry.

 

Many races boast excellent transport stoppers: Orks have Lootas, Chaos has Reaper AC's, and Tau have Missile Pod Battlesuits. Codex:IG has, among its other "creepy" unit gains in 5th, access to many excellent transport stoppers, most notably the Leman Russ Exterminator and the Hydra (which is particularly adept at shutting down Tau and Eldar). For the C:SM, which is our big concern here, the best way to counter other mech lists (as we all know most of us will be playing mech ourselves) include units such as Dakkapreds and Autocannon Dreads. Attack Bikes with MM are, as always, deadly to any form of armor. Another neat trick to drop armor at range is the Land Speeder Tempest and Cyclone ML in Termie squads, as both units can do so from long range with multiple shots, while remaining mobile. The former in particular is developing a big fanbase as players are slowly realising that 12" Move and 48" range gives you quite a bit of maneuverability for dealing with anything short of LRs.

[minigun762]

Looking over all the advice, I see 3 major points being presented.

 

1) Try to kill armor at long range using anti-tank weapons.

2) Try to kill armor at short range using Melta weapons.

3) Try to kill armor in close combat using grenades/Power Fists.

 

It makes sense to me, especially if you try to incorporate all three of these elements into your army, making you a threat regardless of the distance between you and the opponent's forces.

[retsef]

So according to this - and based on a Tactical Squad, the kit out should be something along the lines of:

 

1. LC / ML (long range)

2. MM / Meltagun (short to medium range)

3. PF / Meltabomb / grenade (CC)

[Pigeons]

i'm confused about the comment about defilers needing to get in close to do damage...with a 72 inch range battlecannon, and a reaper autocannon they hardly need to get close to anything.

 

 

the way i intend to use the defiler in my army is basically as long range artillery. the heavy flamer and CCWs are only going to come into play if something happens to counter-attack it.

 

 

that battlecannon is obviously not as good as a demolisher cannon, but it's got much better range and it's still a pie plate. hardly anything to scoff at.

[Paulochromis]

When I saw the post before this one, I at first thought that someone's proposed solution for dealing with mech was ...

Pigeons =c)

[Ryjak]

Having played a mechanized list since 3rd Edition, I can definately say that all the above tactics are valid. The main thing to keep in mind is that you need to stop the transport, not destroy it. That's why Lascannons are still very valuable, as they can easily halt transports when they're still a long way away. In fact, I'd say that's the primary job of a Lascannon; anti-transport duty, not anti-tank duty.

 

If you want to blow up tanks, get some melta weapons, or assault them.