Why should i turn Chaos?

[Custodian Athiair]

In a looooooooooooong time i might get chaos

but it is a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ooong time

 

becuase i need to get my guard army (which has only started about a month ago)

but afterwards i will get another army

 

but i don't know which to get:

Orks

Iron Warriors

or Eldar

 

if you could give me valid set of reason to turn to chaos (after getting 2 loyalist armies) then i will proably go for it

 

thanks a lot

 

Athiair ^_^

[Zhukov]

Why Chaos? Because you like to win no matter which oponent you will face

 

Chaos is amongst the most competative armies. Actually I think either Chaos or Orks are THE strongest army.

 

Other reasons I dont have as I think the modelsd are ugly and the codex boring. Buts thats just my personal taste preferance

[Dràyhèn]

Simple, because we are the ones who fight for the right cause. We are stronger, better, more experienced and we can do what we want. We're more diverse (we should be), exciting and powerful than our counterparts. Our leader was The Warmaster of the Imperium. It's but a matter of time when we break through and control the Imperium.

 

Why Iron Warriors then? Because they are The Masters of Siege Warfare, second to none. Ruthless, powerful and cunning.

They can lay down any fortification and beat the crap out of anyone.

 

Who wouldn't want to be in the winning side? Who wouldn't want to be the most powerful of all?

 

That's why.

[Magnus Thane]

I am one of those who actually like the new codex.

We have some very gorgeous models and much choice in cool Legions and a few interesting warbands on top.

Our lists can also be varied and themed (though some disagree with this). Furthermore our fluff is great.

If you want to play the 'main' bad guy of the setting, CSM's are the place to be.

[the jeske]

well the game play is boring and there is a lot less lists then you can make with codex IG or sm , but the playable list is top tier . fluffwise its totally butchered and legions/chapters etc are more a way to paint then an actuall army . unless you liked chaos in its old version , then I wouldnt start chaos for fluff. But if your looking for different game play then IG , then chaos has such a list .

[incinerator950]

Do what you want because a Chaos Space Marine is free, you are a Chaos Space Marine!

 

edit: damnit

[DrDoom]

People will complain about the codex, but frankly, codex come and go and this one isn't as bad others. Chaos is extremely competitive right now, probably the best after Orks. Plus,and I realize I could be alone in this, I have fun making a variety of llists. I use alot of counts as. I won an Apocaypse game to day with an army that had no Lash in it. Actually I didn't have any HQ's at all.

[Teal]

Because deep down, everyone hates those darned smurf marines and just want to fill their fluff-less and arrogant poster boy bodies with bolts. And with chaos, you can!

[Custodian Athiair]

ok all valid points

but i am worried about that statement that you can't create list that represent the legions which sounds a bit annoying

but here is what my plan would be roughly:

Seige Force: Iron Warriors (eg. 'tactical squads', oblits, tanks, havocs, chosen, terminators, chaos lord (honsou), etc.)

Seige Breakers: Khorne (eg. Zerkers, Khorne Termies, Khorne DP, Defiler, etc.)

Warp Powers: Tzeentch (1000 Sons, Sorceror (maybe Arhiman), Possessed, etc.)

Siege Infestation: Nurgle (PM, Chosen, Plasma/Melta Squad of Doom (havocs), Chaos Lord)

Siege ?????? (help): Slaanesh (NM, Lucius, other stuff)

 

yeh i was trying to think of Siege ????? names for each of the seperate sections

but i couldn't think of any good ones for Tzeentch or Slaanesh so help on that

 

so do you think that is a viable army with the new codex?

 

thanks

 

Athiair :)

[the jeske]

the thing with the chaos dex is , that when you try to build a working list with chaos dex you will soon find out that the number of good units is really low and whats even worse there is offten just one good choice from one section[like DPs are the best HQ nothing comes close to it , oblits dominate hvy support , termicid is the only elite worth taking etc] . this ends up with an "IW" army looking the same as "WE" or an "AL" one . the only section that has more viable choices is troops , only it doesnt really matter if you play 2zerkers/2pms or 4xcsm or 4xpms all those armies are played the same way. while it does shorten the time you need to master playing chaos it does become boring very fast.

 

as the list you mentioned go , they dont seem very viable [iW one is probablly the best , without chosen that is] . zerkers work best in a LR rush build [and terminators are bad hth units] . 1ksons are not viable at all . pms builds spam PMs and you never ever take havocks

or lords . slanesh lists are probablly the only ones that are a bit different [but not much] and use the water warrior build and never use lucius or any other chaos special characters , because their are overcosted for what they can do .

 

I use alot of counts as.

you use counts as while playing BL :) ?

[Magnus Thane]

The codex is fine, streamlined and still allows fluffy lists. And the fluff in it i like. It just expands on some other themes. Hardly the end of the world.

The negativity around here is sometimes plain depressing. But don't let it scare you away from giving the codex a try.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

Get hold of Codex 3.5 and you'll see how p*ss poor our latest codex is.

 

I do agree that it's not the end of the world and you shouldn't NOT choose to turn to the dark gods for the sake of one bad codex. I couldn't imagine collecting any other army now, after 12 years with just Chaos in my life. Maybe some Dark Angels cos they are just like a C of E family. They have serious issues but they just like to keep it all "in house". Chaos is more like a Catholic family. They drink, they go nuts, they have rows, they go berzerk at times, yet they happily admit to it and go see their god on a sunday to put it right. Dark Gods bless them both.

 

Get yourself in to some Iron trousers and go wild with the world. And stick a few Fallen Angels in there too, just for funsies. Who wouldn't love an Iron Warriors hoarde with a good amount of rebels and crazies running around with them. Whatever it takes to beseige the imperial palace.

 

I think I've had too much sugar.

[DrDoom]

I use alot of counts as.

you use counts as while playing BL :) ?

 

 

Lol. I get that alot. I'm fine with using the cult troops and I've got plenty of each in BL colors, but I like the idea that the Legion has some specialized troops that aren't dedicated to a particular god. So I started fielding "Harbinger Assault Squads" (Khorne Berzerkers), Phalanx Batteries (Thousand Sons) etc, etc. I made up some decent mods and its just kind of cool.

 

Plus until BoLS came up with a datafax for it, I needed to have something to do with my Cannon of Khorne (Vindicator with the new codex).

[Corpse.]

You can swipe 10 marines with a power weapon using a daemon prince with warptime and wings or a pair of cheap sorcerers with doombolts pelting before charging. As long as you send sufficient force in to take down a target it doesnt matter what you use, or how "deep in the red" you put yourself. I've gotten by using Ahriman by the skin of my teeth. I've recently used Khârn as a dreadnought hunter, which surprisingly he worked out very well wiping six killa kanz in one game, strategiclly removing DCCW's on the ones that dont get destroyed and being a sketchy combat to begin with.

 

If you compare 1v1 with chaos characters, including DP's, regular, special and even champions with sufficient bodies to take hits for them. You can see where the power in hits come from. Terminators compare to loyalists only really lack the Assault Cannon and Storm Shield really. Our twin claw termies can be backed by icons of khorne to make up for the lack of numbers out of a 5 termi transport compared to eight from the loyalists.

 

More elite then the elite. We can also pack power in numbers, flowing with 15 pt models that come packed with assault marine weapons and basic marine weapons with a higher base LD and options for icons. Even fabius bile can make them fearless and he can be worth it if you turn 30+ of them into enhanced marines, he is our only true army changing character.

 

Hate/Love bloodthirsters? Abbadon though underrated can stand toe to toe with one and come out feasibly well and/or close in the end result of the combat. A marine standing to one of the worst melee monsters out there, perhaps Ctan are worse, no bonuses against them, abbadon dies to them however.

 

5(6 with fabius) different troop choices, add in the lesser daemons which in numbers make up their own worth as a type of W4 melee scout with Inv save and gets summoned out of transport icons. (10 marines fully equipped+transport costs about the same as 20 lesser daemons, two 5+inv saves *1/3 chance* is similar to having one 2/3 chance to save)

 

Then add in toughness 5 raptors, at a feasible size in a unit with the ability to walk through difficult terrain to avoid dangerous terrain tests to charge in and out of. You can mix and match icons with removable icon heads to make even out outdated cost bike unit toughness 6 cavalry that dont care to have attack bikes with a powerfist champ that would annoy any str4 and under melee unit without rending. Facing rending/monstrous critters? Change out for an icon of tzeentch the next game!

 

We have an army that has more flexibility then people give credit for. Without changing a buttload of models to do it (that is, if you use icons / magnetized special weapons like I do).

 

Lots of change, and with an army with a specific heading in mind no matter what you face you can roll over it if you change a little or come prepared for it. If you spot weakness, you destroy it. The enemies, and your own. Thats the chaos way.

 

A simple berzerker can level 8 guardsmen with relative ease. A sorcerer wont care that the enemy has super cool special powers, we get straight to the punch with direct "I just kill you or put you where my friend will" powers. No special teleporting around or glancing this or stunning that.

 

Plenty of fearless to ignore special gaming modes like pin-heavy armies and the new stuffy LD-destroy armies like psyker battle squads.

 

 

With unit sized of 20 possible, and champs powerful enough to back that up, certain game modes like killpoints and dawn of war (troop squads of 20, fearless, and in your face with the first turn being night fight). I won nearly every game I pack a 20 unit in a dawn of war scenario.

 

 

I prefer nurgle now, having gone through tons of trials since the codex came out, I like the guns and durable guys with the rhino cover that offers them a 4+ cover save that few weapons negate. And if that weapon is a flame template, they normally regret getting that close in the first place soon therafter.

 

 

If you want tourniment play, go with Jeske's musings, he's a tourny guy. Though, dont take what tourny players say too seriously. Though most people like to buy what works, honestly most of our models kill their worth if used properly, even the possessed marine is like having 2 icons already+one of your choosing and then a random bonus.

 

Typical Combos:

 

Lash + Blast/flame or fast/hard assaulters. (Hard assaulters out of the Land raider, first turn assault still, two lashes to be certain, it fails against transport armies though in some respects so be prepared for it)

Hard hitters, melee more so then shooting, strategic shooting like termicide, using vehicles to halt the enemies progress by firepower blocking and getting the soldiers there.

 

Other methods are not as popular, but people mix more then play a direct role. Zilla being one, dreads, defilers, greater daemon, 2 princes and numerous/tough troops for objectives, mostly with ranged weapons on them so they can do what tyranids cannot with troops.

[chillin]

I use alot of counts as.

you use counts as while playing BL :fakenopic: ?

 

I do too. I wanted some T.5 & fnp, but I didn't want any rotten, stinky PM's in my army, so my" PM's" are regular csm's w/ shields and xtra armor. I wanted some ruberics but I don't play T'sons so my "T'sons" are are reg csm's with crests on their helmits and the asp sorc is an oooold WHFB Tz sorc with armor made of bones.

[DuskRaider]

You can always find a way to play a fluffy list, even with the subpar codex we're stuck with at the moment. I play a Death Guard army as close to an actual DG army I can, and you can do it with others as well. It may not be what tournament players would take, but who cares? The game is first and foremost there for fun. If I wanted to do something competitive, I'd go play football again.

[Custodian Athiair]

ok i have made a desicion about the army

basically i have deicded to go Iron Warriors and Khornate Army

because i love both the Iron Warriors and i love Khorne so i decided to include them both

but thats not where i stop

i have deicded to get Deamon Allies of:

Khorne and Tzeentch

but they wont be that big

 

what do you think

 

Athiair :)

[DrDoom]

When you're talking about taking Korne and Tzeentch Daemon allies are you talking about Apocalpse games? In regular games of 4k you can't take them, they count as generic "summoned daemons."

 

Beyond that it sounds pretty good. I always liked a good mix of shooty and assault.

[IronWinds]

I am one of those that hates the new dex. I'm one of the ones who quit playing for over a year because of how horrible it is.

 

I just played a game for the first time in a year. Tried writing up the same army I had before... except with a predator instead of my basi. I won.... decent game. However considering how we both played and the game type at hand... I would of dominated with the 3.5 codex. Maybe that codex was too good.... but IMO there is no possible way to compare this new thing that I regret spending money on to the old codex :lol: . The old codex was the most flexible codex I know of. One of the nastiest CC armies(WEs), and one of the nastiest ranged armies(IWs) packed into one codex with all the variations in between... thats pretty flexible.

 

One major problem I have with this codex. And I'm not trying to pick on the guy considering playing IWs. Trust me, do it. I'll take new IW players all day. But a Tzeench/Khorne IW army with demon allies is extremely unfluffy. So unfluffy it was illegal under the old rules for several reasons. IWs are very distrustful of everyone... especially demons. IWs are cool, no doubt, they are my favorite army forever. But of the chaos armies, they are the least chaosy. They don't even like mutations(except techo virus infected obliterators) because mutations tend to involve demons, and they commonly chop off mutations to replace them with bionics. To an IW a demon is useful as a power source for a bionic or a tank, they aren't trusting of real demons on the battlefield.

 

 

All I'm saying is that if you play them, try to avoid demons, and don't go overboard on god specific troops(bezerkers, etc.). If you want demons and tons of bezkerers... just play Black Legion.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Actually, Iron Warriors used to worship Khorne a fair bit, or at least their Assault Companies did, so there isn't that much wrong with using Berzerkers.

[the jeske]

not exactlly . in the RT days they were on the slanesh page [but unlike the NL they didnt have a double legion icon , like the half NLskull half khorn icon] , but without anyone actually telling us they were slanesh dedicted and post that they were undivided in 3.5 and IA articles and had a mention of one siege breaker unit that "fought like the servents of khorn"[what doesnt really mean they were , you dont have to be khorn to be a maniac] and before they was mention of siege breaker units that were best represented in rules by khorn berzerkers and that memeber of those units sometimes worshiped khorn. its a small difference , but important .

[DuskRaider]

Jeske is right. Iron Warriors are a lot like Night Lords when it come to Chaos... They use it to their advantage, but do not worship. It's a means to an end.

 

That being said, if you're attempting to ally Khorne and Tzeentch followers, it's not the best idea in the world if you look at it from a fluff perspective, but it's also not unheard of. It's been said that followers of Khorne will USE Tzeentch sorcerers and such to help them gain an advantage or whatnot in a battle, but 9 times out of 10 they probably slaughter them afterwards.

[IronWinds]

I wasn't saying avoid god specific troops. Just don't have a crap load of them. I have one bezerker squad myself, but a half IW, half Khorne army would be pushing it IMO.

 

MY biggest point was that IW=/=demons.

[EarthandallStars]

You should play the army which interests you the most not because it has the best Codex. You are going to spend a lot of hours working on your miniatures and playing games with them. If you don't like how they look or the fluff behind them then just having a powerful army will probably leave you hollow eventually. Codex are cyclical in power. It might take close to 10 years for a Codex to go from worst to first, but it is almost inevitable. It is more than the Codex though. I'm sure when 6th edition 40K comes some armies will be worse, some will be better because of it.

[Custodian Athiair]

ok sorry to not post in a while

ohi didn't know that about Iron Warriors about them not using deamons and i want to play them fluffy so fine

but i would be using KB rules but be using them as Siege Breakers

and the only reason i really want a Khorne DP is becuase of the Forge World model it is beautiful

 

anyway thanks

 

Athiair :(