Feel No Pain and Fearless Wounds

[minigun762]

Can you take a FnP save in addition to your armor save when you suffer wounds for losing combat and being fearless?

My gut reaction is no, but I'm not 100%.

[Grey Mage]

Third paragraph underneath No Retreat:

 

All types of saving throws, except for cover saves, may be taken against these wounds.

 

So thats a hearty "YES!" you can.

[Captain Malachi]

Problem is the feel no pain rules say that if you don't get an armour save, you don't get a FnP save, so which rule takes preference? I'm going to shoot my plaguebearers in the foot here and say the FnP rule takes preference and that you can't take FnP saves against no retreat wounds. I work this on the basis that the quote above is a general quote, while the FnP rules are more specific, if anyone can give a quote that proves me wrong though I'd love to hear it. :lol:

[Nyyman]

Problem is the feel no pain rules say that if you don't get an armour save, you don't get a FnP save, so which rule takes preference?

 

I don't see problem, as Fearless extra wounds rule says excatly that you can have Armour Saves. And therefore, they let you take FNP.

People, even if GW fails a lot, you can't blame them forever and pick every single rule that doesn't say it excatly sharp.

[Grey Mage]

Problem is the feel no pain rules say that if you don't get an armour save, you don't get a FnP save, so which rule takes preference? I'm going to shoot my plaguebearers in the foot here and say the FnP rule takes preference and that you can't take FnP saves against no retreat wounds. I work this on the basis that the quote above is a general quote, while the FnP rules are more specific, if anyone can give a quote that proves me wrong though I'd love to hear it. :lol:

Actually it says AP 1, AP 2, and CC wounds against wich no save is possible- no retreat wounds are none of these.

 

Though its a moot point, as Nyyman said you get normal armor saves against no retreat.

[Souchan]

Actually it says AP 1, AP 2, and CC wounds against wich no save is possible- no retreat wounds are none of these.

 

Actually it doesn't have to be CC wounds that ignore armour, any wound be it shooting or melee that ignores armour ignores FNP.

 

No retreat allows armour saves, so FNP would work, something like dangerous terrain wouldn't allow FNP.

[DarkGuard]

Actually it says AP 1, AP 2, and CC wounds against wich no save is possible- no retreat wounds are none of these.

 

Actually it doesn't have to be CC wounds that ignore armour, any wound be it shooting or melee that ignores armour ignores FNP.

 

No retreat allows armour saves, so FNP would work, something like dangerous terrain wouldn't allow FNP.

 

Acutally, it's just AP 1, AP 2, CC wounds with no save possible and double strength over toughness wounds that disallow a FNP save.

 

A plague marine can still take a FNP save even if its been hit by a flamestorm cannon because it fills none of the criteria that disallows the save, even though its AP3 and therefore ignored the plague marine's armour. A krak missile, however, would allow no FNP save due to double strength over toughness, while a plasma gun and power sword disallows FNP because of AP2 and disallowed armour save in combat respectively.

 

Answering the original question, you should be able to take FNP saves for No Retreat wounds as it doesn't fill any of the criteria that disallow FNP saves, and the No Retreat itself says you can take armour saves as normal.

[Souchan]

Acutally, it's just AP 1, AP 2, CC wounds with no save possible and double strength over toughness wounds that disallow a FNP save.

 

No, it really is what I said plus anything that causes instant death, not just double strength(p75 BRB). The CC weapon clause is what it had back in 4th and what WBB still currently has.

Indeed flame storm cannons wouldn't work because they are AP3, something that doesn't always ignore armour, it on occasion ignoring armour doesn't cancel FNP, just ask Plaguebearers about them having no armour to begin with.

 

Shooting weapons that ignore FNP are things like Daemons Flamers Breath of Chaos, a Template that never allows armour saves to be taken. I think psychic powers and breath of chaos templates are the most common place to find that ruling(beyond the list provided in the FNP rule itself), as any other weapon will just have low AP.

[Captain Malachi]

Never mind, I read it wrong. Please ignore me.

 

This is what I get for posting less than ten minutes after waking up.

[gil galed]

I thought it was FNP could not be used against

 

AP1

Ap2

Instant Death (any form)

CC attacks the deny an armour save

 

unless of course the cc attacks is rolled into the 'no armour saves allowed' bit, i don't have my book infront of me

[Grey Mage]

Acutally, it's just AP 1, AP 2, CC wounds with no save possible and double strength over toughness wounds that disallow a FNP save.

 

No, it really is what I said plus anything that causes instant death, not just double strength(p75 BRB). The CC weapon clause is what it had back in 4th and what WBB still currently has.

Indeed flame storm cannons wouldn't work because they are AP3, something that doesn't always ignore armour, it on occasion ignoring armour doesn't cancel FNP, just ask Plaguebearers about them having no armour to begin with.

 

Shooting weapons that ignore FNP are things like Daemons Flamers Breath of Chaos, a Template that never allows armour saves to be taken. I think psychic powers and breath of chaos templates are the most common place to find that ruling(beyond the list provided in the FNP rule itself), as any other weapon will just have low AP.

Your right, Im sorry.

 

It says Power weapons and then any other wound against wich no save could be taken. I read that as also being CCWs, but it doesnt actually say that. *tips hat to you*.

 

It also mentions perils of the warp and dangerous terrain tests.

[Souchan]

Acutally, it's just AP 1, AP 2, CC wounds with no save possible and double strength over toughness wounds that disallow a FNP save.

 

No, it really is what I said plus anything that causes instant death, not just double strength(p75 BRB). The CC weapon clause is what it had back in 4th and what WBB still currently has.

Indeed flame storm cannons wouldn't work because they are AP3, something that doesn't always ignore armour, it on occasion ignoring armour doesn't cancel FNP, just ask Plaguebearers about them having no armour to begin with.

 

Shooting weapons that ignore FNP are things like Daemons Flamers Breath of Chaos, a Template that never allows armour saves to be taken. I think psychic powers and breath of chaos templates are the most common place to find that ruling(beyond the list provided in the FNP rule itself), as any other weapon will just have low AP.

Your right, Im sorry.

 

It says Power weapons and then any other wound against wich no save could be taken. I read that as also being CCWs, but it doesnt actually say that. *tips hat to you*.

 

It also mentions perils of the warp and dangerous terrain tests.

 

No worries, I'm just glad it's clear now :)

The slightly clumsy wording(placing it directly after power weapons when only partially related) and the 4th ed wording don't help. Power weapons should have simply been included in the summary of examples. Most ignore armour saves occurences are certainly CC though^^