Vindicators or Predators?

[Roninwarrior]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm building a space marine force but haven't played any large games yet.

 

I want to buy a tag-team of two of the same kind of Heavy Support tanks; Preds (probably Dakka, much cheaper if I want to run two) or Vindicators. I'm open to the idea of one of each but would like the pair to be two of the same, being as I think they would provide interesting conversion opportunites, and having two of the same tank has both tactical and awesome value (I hope).

 

So, could people with more experience elaborate on the values of each tank in battles for me? What kinds of armies they work well with, what they're good at, each one's disadvantages, etc. I'm thinking of running at least two rhinos besides, so part of their role might be supporting/protecting those.

 

 

Many thanks.

[minigun762]

Typically its thought that "spamming" unit types is the way to go. This is more true when it comes to armor. Don't take just one of something. Since this is what you want to do anyway, its all good! :)

 

For me, I think that Vindicators are better tanks if you have a more aggressive army. They make good spearhead units, leading the charge of Rhinos and Razorbacks and protecting the smaller vehicles. In this role they'll likely die, but thats why you take two anyway, to increase the chances of one getting through.

 

Predators are typically a more defensive tank, as they need to remain static to fire for full effect. This doesn't make them bad, just different. A very shooty army might get more mileage out of them as it increases their overall firepower considerably and cheaply.

 

A Vindicator is reasonably good against everything. It can bust open heavy armor (nothing is better at killing Monoliths) and thin our hordes. The Predator is more of the specialist, the Dakka Predator can lay waste to infantry and the LasCannon can be a big threat to any armor or MC. If your playstyle is one where you like all-purpose units, I'd go with the Vindicator. If you prefer units with a dedicated role, I'd go with Predators.

 

If you've read some of the other topics here, you'll notice alot of love for the "Combi-Predator". This is the AutoCannon Turret and LasCannon sponson version. The reason being is that its cheap and effective, putting out 4 high S shots at 48". If you go with Predators, I'd consider this version as it makes for a good all purpose vehicle at a premium cost.

[Bannus]

minigun has it right - if your army is a close combat army, you'll want the Vindicators for support. If your army likes to hang back and shoot, then the Predators will be more beneficial.

[Ryjak]

I've run a Vindicator pair for years, and they definately work best with a 'charge!' mentality. Why I don't see Blood Angels spamming these is beyond me.

 

In general, my Vindicators screen 2 or 3 Rhinos, and/or an Assault Squad, until they get close enough to shoot next turn. Then the Vindicators start laying down fire while the Rhinos move in. Often, my Rhinos get where I want them, because no one likes sucking down two Str 10 Ordinance Blasts every turn, so the Vindicators suck in all the firepower that should have been directed against the Rhinos.

 

Next game, I'm going to try leaving my assault squad near the Vindicators as a counter-charge unit, since they seem to always die to a HtH attack.

 

Vindicators are tricky to use though, since if they're in a position to shoot, they're usually in a position to get flanked by something that can kill them. While I could use a Razorback to act as side armor, I really hate that tactic... almost as much as I hate seeing a Rhino wall moving down the field.

 

Predators, on the other hand, are quite simple. Set them up with a good field of fire, hopefully in cover, and blast away. If something could assault them next turn, run away 12". It's generally better to kite a unit with a Predator than to sit there for one turn and die. I find playing a static unit fairly boring, though, so I haven't used my Predators in quite a while.

[minigun762]

I've run a Vindicator pair for years, and they definately work best with a 'charge!' mentality. Why I don't see Blood Angels spamming these is beyond me.

 

Mostly because you get a fast Predator with an Assault Cannon. ;)

That being said, I always thought that the Baal was the perfect compliment to the Vindicator.

Vindicator fires on a full group squad and the Baal picks up the remnants.

[Deathwing]

Have you considered using one of each? There would be some situations where they could compliment each other nicely. Example against a tyranid army. The vindi can take on the hordes while a combi-pred or pred-annihilator can gun down the MCs. Two vindis will have problems vs MCs and two predators will have problems vs hordes or MCs (depending on what type of pred)

A pair would also work well against something like a fast moving, transport based army, a predator would be much more valuable for popping transports and then the vindi can bomb the contents. Two vindis might have trouble gunning down the transport (scatter and reduced strength) while two predators might not be able to take care of the contents (too many bodies, too few shots).

 

Two vindicators, would work best when you are charging head long into the foe.

Two predators, would work better either as part of a slow advancing force or a SAFH type force.

One of each gives you the flexibility to be either a charging force or a slow advancing force.

 

Now I'm taking this from a tournament perspective where you can't change your list between games. In the long term I'd suggest you get two of each and so you can mix and match between games (or heavily magnetize both tanks).