Valerian Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I guess our discussion in the end is rather moot, as it doesnt matter how old and wise the 13th Co are, they arent dreadnaughts :D. Bjorn is, and I hope that GW, in making the new rules, remembers that Bjorn has fought as a dread for something like 500 years before he started sleeping more, and has sat counsel with Russ himself, so would obviously be far more badass than a standard vendread. I think making him a 200 point walking landraider would be fair for one of the coolest (IMO) characters out there. Wholeheartedly agree here. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Bulveye (sp) in the new dex either, to represent those who love their 13th Co., and maybe some additional fluff to come along with him :huh: I'd personally rather see Jorin Bloodfang, but I'll be happy as long as there is some 13th co love in the new codex. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2034132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 My only arguement against Bjorn coming back in the new codex is a matter of fluff. Our brother is tired, the millennia weigh heavily upon him. His is only really used to recite history or defend the Fang in the direst of situations. If our brother was to come back, the Wolf Lords would insist that every small skirmish was of dire consequence and he will never get any rest. The 3rd Edition Ven Dread was a way to get around waking Bjorn up and we could use him without having to ask our opponents permission as we have to with our other special characters. I would really like to see the return of Bjorn, but I would probably prefer a more venerable dreadnought then any of the other chapters currently have in stock; unless he has like special crafted Assault Cannon and Lightning Claw and then its all on! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2034694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 For fluff reasons, I agree, but at the same time, our Brothers in Blue can field their 'God of War' chapter master for any small ruckus which is also pretty silly. I think they shuld never have gotten rid of point limits, so bring back Bjorn the Fellhanded and let's see how he fares... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2034728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokafort Stonewolf Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Agreed, given the current trend I see him around 200ish points with 4 attacks and the ability to reroll wounds and 2d6 armour pen in CC, and since his AC is a pre-heresy relic, perhaps some extra shots, or strength? AP3 even? AP3 would be hilarious. Otherwise I suspect our Vendreads will be the same as the SM ones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2034736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Id do him like this: 215pts. 13/13/11 Armor, WS/BS/I 5, A 4. Equipment: Longbarrelled mastercrafted assault cannon, Mastercrafted DCCW with built in heavy flamer. Special Rules: Venerable- as per current C:SW. Old and Wise- You may choose to add +1 to the die roll to see who deploys first and to seize the initiative. In addition you may choose to add +1 or -1 to any reserve roll while bjeorn is still alive. Might of the Ancients- Bjeorn Fellhanded ignores the first Destroyed or Explodes result each game. *A suitable counter may be good to mark this* Inspirational- All SW units within 12" of Bjeorn automatically pass their Counter-attack tests and count as stubborn in the first round of CC. Longbarrelled Assault Cannon- as a normal assault cannon with range 36". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2034951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 now that sounds good bjorn is such a cool part of our fluff,as to av 14 erm na hes a space wolf not a cheese wolf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torin Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Id do him like this:215pts. 13/13/11 Armor, WS/BS/I 5, A 4. Equipment: Longbarrelled mastercrafted assault cannon, Mastercrafted DCCW with built in heavy flamer. Special Rules: Venerable- as per current C:SW. Old and Wise- You may choose to add +1 to the die roll to see who deploys first and to seize the initiative. In addition you may choose to add +1 or -1 to any reserve roll while bjeorn is still alive. Might of the Ancients- Bjeorn Fellhanded ignores the first Destroyed or Explodes result each game. *A suitable counter may be good to mark this* Inspirational- All SW units within 12" of Bjeorn automatically pass their Counter-attack tests and count as stubborn in the first round of CC. Longbarrelled Assault Cannon- as a normal assault cannon with range 36". well that a nice one grey mage.. if only... if only it were true. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think that sort of load out would be more than 215pts - maybe 250/260? Reserves boost and the auto pass for Counter Attack + Stubborn makes it very, very powerful. I also think they'll be more in the way of a boost for the weapons - maybe a Dreadnought sized LC? S10, rerolls too much, do we think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torin Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 yup i think it should cost around 300... since you can reroll all damage taken + Might of the Ancients- Bjeorn Fellhanded ignores the first Destroyed or Explodes result each game. *A suitable counter may be good to mark this*. Hahaha.. if we can take a techmarine with servo harness & repair servitor.. what would that make him.. i guess you all can figure out for yourself :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The God Emperor Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think that sort of load out would be more than 215pts - maybe 250/260? Reserves boost and the auto pass for Counter Attack + Stubborn makes it very, very powerful. I also think they'll be more in the way of a boost for the weapons - maybe a Dreadnought sized LC? S10, rerolls too? And rending! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I dont see the logic you guys are using with the 200 points decision. They made Calgar 250 and he is wearing terminator armor. Bjorn is a Dreadnaught hero, that would logically lead me to believe he will automatically cost more than any other special character outside of the nightbringer. If he isn't 300 points I would be very surprised. There are heroes, and then there are 10,000 year old dreadnoughts with an axe to grind. But again if other IC's weigh in at 200+ having Bjorn not cost more with his suit of Dreadnought armor would be a crime. Thats like saying that nope, Bjorn is no more effective than a terminator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'd like to see armor 12, but like ALL OTHER MONSTROUS CREATURES, give him multiple wounds....that'd be nice. lol Nothing more aggravating in this world than some private melta gunning your ven dread with one shot, yet a DP, Carni, etc....take multiple shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think that sort of load out would be more than 215pts - maybe 250/260? Reserves boost and the auto pass for Counter Attack + Stubborn makes it very, very powerful. I also think they'll be more in the way of a boost for the weapons - maybe a Dreadnought sized LC? S10, rerolls too much, do we think? Im comparing him to Pedro Kantor, Vulkan Hestan, and Lysander, but yeah, playtesting for balance is good... even if some companies dont do it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think that sort of load out would be more than 215pts - maybe 250/260? Reserves boost and the auto pass for Counter Attack + Stubborn makes it very, very powerful. I also think they'll be more in the way of a boost for the weapons - maybe a Dreadnought sized LC? S10, rerolls too much, do we think? Im comparing him to Pedro Kantor, Vulkan Hestan, and Lysander, but yeah, playtesting for balance is good... even if some companies dont do it. Well, most of those have a single "special" piece of equipment (Super Storm Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Thunder Hammer o' Doom) plus a reasonably recreatable load out plus a single buff. What we are proposing for Bjorn is a souped up Ironclad (so 130 base) plus two souped up Dread Weapons plus 3 Special abilities. Hence the massive points jump. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I am starting to think that he should be an apocalypse Character... A couple of structure points, souped up armour & weaponry... oh yeah.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2035907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Just throwing out that mastercrafting is worth atleast 10pts, and in a single Salamanders force of 1k you can get an extra 100-150pts out of that. Pedro has one peice of special equipment, true enough- but he has several special rules. And then theres Calgar- who has multiple unique abilities and peices of special equipment. Then theres Dante of the Blood Angels- aura rules and multiple special peices of equipment. *Shrugs* But its not like Im an official or anything either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2036025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Why not just make him a Warhound Titan instead of that whimpy venerable dreadnought... :ph34r: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2036065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Why not just make him a Warhound Titan instead of that whimpy venerable dreadnought... :ph34r: I blame our lack of titan class dreadnaughts on Horus and his rebelious stage B). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2036071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torin Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Why not just make him a Warhound Titan instead of that whimpy venerable dreadnought... :pinch: I blame our lack of titan class dreadnaughts on Horus and his rebelious stage ;). well they should just make him into a palladin instead. Well i kinda like the idea of multiple would on him rather then normal armor.. on the other hand they could make his armor immune to melta effect (2D6). Would also be nice to allow him to pick who he kill in HTH.. kill the chaos termie with the chainfist... for such an experience fighter... i think he should know who to take out first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2036276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Why not just make him a Warhound Titan instead of that whimpy venerable dreadnought... :pinch: I blame our lack of titan class dreadnaughts on Horus and his rebelious stage ;). well they should just make him into a palladin instead. Well i kinda like the idea of multiple would on him rather then normal armor.. on the other hand they could make his armor immune to melta effect (2D6). Would also be nice to allow him to pick who he kill in HTH.. kill the chaos termie with the chainfist... for such an experience fighter... i think he should know who to take out first. So are Space Wolves Lawful Good or Chaotic Good? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2036291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 So are Space Wolves Lawful Good or Chaotic Good? Depends on the Wolf Lord, and whose law your talking about eh? On the whole Id say they are Chaotic Good though. They tell the church, and occaisionally the inquisition, to sodd off. They created a new kind of predator tanks. They threw down, pissed on, and burnt the codex astartes. They even refused to be mind-wiped by the inquisition after fighting alongside the Grey Knights versons Angron. Yeah.... by DnD standards, totally chaotic good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2036349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 So are Space Wolves Lawful Good or Chaotic Good? Depends on the Wolf Lord, and whose law your talking about eh? On the whole Id say they are Chaotic Good though. They tell the church, and occaisionally the inquisition, to sodd off. They created a new kind of predator tanks. They threw down, pissed on, and burnt the codex astartes. They even refused to be mind-wiped by the inquisition after fighting alongside the Grey Knights versons Angron. Yeah.... by DnD standards, totally chaotic good. Chaotic Good for the win! Going by 4th Ed though, I'd say we're a cross between Good and Unaligned. We won't go out of our way to help someone *cough* Inquisitor * cough* unless we get something in return. Then again, the simple pleasure of rending our foes limb from limb in the Emperor and Russ' name is usually good enough, so we do tend to go out of our way a bit. It's confusing, but it makes sense (to me at least. Might be because I'm an Ork). ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2036896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 So are Space Wolves Lawful Good or Chaotic Good? Depends on the Wolf Lord, and whose law your talking about eh? On the whole Id say they are Chaotic Good though. They tell the church, and occaisionally the inquisition, to sodd off. They created a new kind of predator tanks. They threw down, pissed on, and burnt the codex astartes. They even refused to be mind-wiped by the inquisition after fighting alongside the Grey Knights versons Angron. Yeah.... by DnD standards, totally chaotic good. Chaotic Good for the win! Going by 4th Ed though, I'd say we're a cross between Good and Unaligned. We won't go out of our way to help someone *cough* Inquisitor * cough* unless we get something in return. Then again, the simple pleasure of rending our foes limb from limb in the Emperor and Russ' name is usually good enough, so we do tend to go out of our way a bit. It's confusing, but it makes sense (to me at least. Might be because I'm an Ork). :P 1) I hate 4rth ed dnd. 2) Well go out of our way to help the general populace of the imperium, who are in general defenseless or relying on PDF that are comparatively weak. Inquisitors can stand on their own, and tend to be a bit on the lawful evil way of things. Id say thats fairly good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2036987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 1) I hate 4rth ed dnd.2) Well go out of our way to help the general populace of the imperium, who are in general defenseless or relying on PDF that are comparatively weak. Inquisitors can stand on their own, and tend to be a bit on the lawful evil way of things. Id say thats fairly good. I was about to say that! The Wolves always lend a helping hand. They are amongst the most honorable of all the legions, which is what I like so much about them. Its like old school Wolverine, on the outside hes a raging berserker but deep down beats the heart of a noble samurai. The Wolves rend their foes with a fierceness like no other, but their hearts are always in the right place and you'll find no more committed an Imperial servant. Wolves always do the right thing, law or no law. And they can down a mean ale too :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171871-bjorn-the-fellhanded/page/2/#findComment-2036996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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