What are good fast attack choices?

[travh20]

I have quite a bit of black legion, but the other day while making some 'ard Boyz lists I realized I have no fast attack whatsoever. I run mostly troops and elites it seems, with one Vindicator as my sole heavy support choice. My army is mostly Khorne based Black Legion. and I have 3 Rhinos and 2 10 man zerker squads, plus 3 full regular CSM squads. Since I am Khorne based getting to grips with my enemy is top priority, yet I have no fast attack!

 

Looking at the codex, not much inspires me in the fast attack section. Raptors seem great, but the models not so hot. there are no speeders. SO that only leaves bikes. What is better, raptors or bikes? (man the fast attack section is weak as hell in the CSM codex!)

[the jeske]

chaos doesnt have any good fast attack choices. best thing one can do is 5 man raptor squads ith 2 specials for anti horde[flamers] or anti tank[melta] . but the truth is troops or hvy support do that better .

[travh20]

What about bikers? are they any good?

[the jeske]

cost too much for being non scoring , have to be baby sited by an ? HQ what more or less mean a lord or sorc [both weaker then a DP] . there is no good combos that go with them , no attack bikes . chaos FA is non existent .

[chillin]

As Jeske sz, no real good FA choices for chaos. Bikers are pretty much out (shame I like the models). Raptors are only "ok". Could run 5 w/no champ, 2 meltas or 2 flamers, they usually do their job (but DS'ing termi's usually would do it better). You could also run 8-10 w/ champ & flamer X2, could put a K. lord w/ them or not, as a hth unit. Fly them up behind LR. Have to be careful and kind of "cherry pick" with them, have them attack units that rino troops would have a hard time getting to (dev's or tau shooting from atop a building or something like that) be careful about throwing them against a strong hth unit.

[Cale]

It's true. You really don't need fast attack in your Chaos army.

 

If you're really looking at a large game ('Ard Boyz, right? 2500 points?) fill out your troop slots with six substantial mechanized squads. Berserkers and Chaos Space Marines are great, as are Plague Marines. Make sure every squad has a Rhino (or a Raider for those Berserkers). Fill out your Heavy Support slots. Vindicators and Obliterators are the way to go, here. Land Raiders can do double duty, take the place of Rhinos for some of your squads. Take two Daemon Princes. If you still have points left over, then, start thinking about Fast Attack and Elites.

 

For fast attack, there are two types of squads: small squads with Meltas and large, combatty squads.

 

A small squad with meltas is either:

 

5 Raptors, 2 Meltas (add Icon of Chaos Glory as points permit) for 120 (130) points, or

3 Bikes, 2 Meltas (add Icon of Chaos Glory as points permit) for 119 (129) points.

 

These squads are identical in function, virtually identical in cost, and very, very similar in terms of overall effectiveness. The choice between them is purely aesthetic. If you're playing the small melta squad, don't add more guys except as point filler.

 

A large, combatty squad should be substantially similar to one of the following:

 

9 Raptors, 2 meltas, Champion with Icon of Chaos Glory (or Icon of Khorne) and Power Fist for 270 (290) points, or

9 Bikers, 2 meltas, Champion with Icon of Chaos Glory (or Icon of Khorne) and Power Fist for 380 or 400 points.

 

These squads, again, are identical in function. The bikers are considerably more expensive, but better all around (they have better guns, they're faster, and they're tougher. Their damage output in combat is identical, though they do sometimes get better shots off before charging).

 

Never take Spawn. Ever.

 

As an alternative to Fast Attack, you could consider playing Lesser Summoned Daemons. It is easy to fill points with LSDs, they're reasonable in combat, they score, and they don't count towards your maximum six troop choices. So, if you have extra points after filling out your HQ, HS, and Troops, you can always use LSDs to bring even more Troops--which is never a bad idea. If you play LSDs, make sure to include an Icon (of Chaos Glory, generally) or Personal Icon in each squad.

 

To figure out how many Daemons you should play and what squads they should be divided into, fill out the rest of your army. Subtract the cost of the rest of your army from the total point allotment and divide by 13. Round down.

 

Take the product of that division and compare it to the following chart:

-If you have between five and fifteen daemons, put them all in one squad.

-If you have between sixteen and 23 daemons, divide them as evenly as possible into two squads.

-If you have between 24 and 27 Daemons, divide them as evenly as possible into three squads.

-If you have between 28 and 40 Daemons, put twenty daemons in one squad, and put the rest into a second squad.

-If you have between 40 and 47 Daemons, put twenty daemons in one squad and divide the rest as evenly as possible between a second and third squad.

-If you have 48 or more daemons, divide 40 of the daemons into two squads of twenty, then consult the rules above for the remainder.

 

 

I'll cover Elites briefly. There are three things you can do with your Elite squads. Chosen, Combi-weapon termis, and Lightning Claw termies.

 

When playing Chosen, play them just like you would a regular Chaos Space Marine squad, but give them two additional special weapons. Mixing Flamers and Meltas is alright, but if you're playing Plasmas, make sure its just Plasmas. Play them with a Rhino, a Power Fist, and an Icon (either Glory or Khorne).

 

If playing combi-weapon termies, keep your squads smallish. Give one a Heavy Flamer and give the rest combi-meltas or combi-plasmas. Make sure to include at least one has a Power Fist, and consider an Icon of Glory (and don't really consider other Icons).

 

If playing lightning-claw termies, play five. Put them in a land raider. Consider an Icon of Glory or an Icon of Khorne. Consider upgrading some or all to champions.

 

 

So, in conclusion, don't think that you need fast attack. You don't. In the Chaos Army, most of your army should be troops. Our Heavy Support and HQs stand out head-and-shoulders above Fast Attack and Elites, so focus on those, next. Finally, consider the units I've discussed here as filler, should you find yourself with space remaining in your army.

[travh20]

Wow, thanks for the detailed response man, you make some great points!