Brother captin Braddok Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hay All I apologies if this topic is in the wrong location. I’m going to my local Ard boyz tournament and am trying to get a good list together. The 2nd scenario allows you to score 5 kill points for every HQ you kill. So to that end, what counts as an HQ. I was going to field Sicarius with a command squad. However is they count as Separate HQs I will rethink this. Does anyone know how this works as per the official rules, or have any thoughts on how it will work in the Tournament? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 They are HQ choices that don't count towards your HQ allowance so yes they're going to be 5 KP each. Unless they send out a FAQ for their scenarios like they did last year. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/#findComment-2035759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother captin Braddok Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Thanks Cypher Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/#findComment-2035786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I don't forsee an FAQ on that rule. It's pretty cut-and-dry. The Command Squad is an HQ unit, but it's "free" in regards to your FOC slots. Siccy is 5 points, and the Command Squad is 5 points. I has the exact same unit in my list, and chopped it out for the same reason. No need to cripple myself in that mission any more than I already do! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/#findComment-2035799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 As a follow up question, how many kill points are a retinue worth? A grey knight hero, being an HQ choice, is 5 kill points. For the same HQ choice, the hero can have a retinue, adding 2+ termies to the HQ unit, but making the hero lose the independant character rule (meaning he is not a seperate unit.) Now, in regular play, if the retinue dies and the hero becomes an IC again (thus becoming a new unit) then they are both worth 1 kill point (not 5?). How does this work in 'ard boyz though, especially if the hero dies before the squad? (thus never becomes a different unit from the retinue) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/#findComment-2036182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 As a follow up question, how many kill points are a retinue worth? A grey knight hero, being an HQ choice, is 5 kill points. For the same HQ choice, the hero can have a retinue, adding 2+ termies to the HQ unit, but making the hero lose the independant character rule (meaning he is not a seperate unit.) Now, in regular play, if the retinue dies and the hero becomes an IC again (thus becoming a new unit) then they are both worth 1 kill point (not 5?). How does this work in 'ard boyz though, especially if the hero dies before the squad? (thus never becomes a different unit from the retinue) It depends... some of the time this will be really simple- like Wolf Gaurd theyll be a seperate option. Where it isnt stated Id be ready to accept the idea that it was another HQ choice though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/#findComment-2036358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 As a follow up question, how many kill points are a retinue worth? A grey knight hero, being an HQ choice, is 5 kill points. For the same HQ choice, the hero can have a retinue, adding 2+ termies to the HQ unit, but making the hero lose the independant character rule (meaning he is not a seperate unit.) Now, in regular play, if the retinue dies and the hero becomes an IC again (thus becoming a new unit) then they are both worth 1 kill point (not 5?). How does this work in 'ard boyz though, especially if the hero dies before the squad? (thus never becomes a different unit from the retinue) It would make sense that it is worth 5 also. As a retinue for an HQ choice it IS an HQ choice itself. And that senario is that instead of gaining 1 killpoint for hq you gain 5. so 5 for retinue, 5 for hero. Only folk who could argue about not having that happen are the hive tyrant with guard as the tyrant is not an IC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/#findComment-2036382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlakir Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Only folk who could argue about not having that happen are the hive tyrant with guard as the tyrant is not an IC. A Tau Commander with Bodyguard could be excluded as well as the codex stats that they count as a single HQ choice (C:TE p.32). The same is also true for the Dark Eldar Archon/Drachon and Retinue (C: DE p.7). That is if the scenario only says that you get 5kp for destroying HQ choices and doesn't make the clear notion about characters and retinues as in the Annihilation mission from the BRB. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/#findComment-2037603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Only folk who could argue about not having that happen are the hive tyrant with guard as the tyrant is not an IC. A Tau Commander with Bodyguard could be excluded as well as the codex stats that they count as a single HQ choice (C:TE p.32). The same is also true for the Dark Eldar Archon/Drachon and Retinue (C: DE p.7). That is if the scenario only says that you get 5kp for destroying HQ choices and doesn't make the clear notion about characters and retinues as in the Annihilation mission from the BRB. Wrong, all the cases you presented are IC and Retinues, which are defined as HQ choices (even if the retiune does not take up an HQ slot, its is still an HQ choice), and the rules say retinues give up their own killpoints seperate from the IC they are part of. The reason that Tyrant and Guard could be exculded is because the Tyrant is NOT an IC, and thus the guard do not fit the definition of retinue despite the fact that the optoin of takeing guards is called retinue because on the botom of pagee 48 of the BRB as a retinue has to be for an IC. This is similar to how in earlier editions space marine scouts did not have the scout special rule despite being called scouts. (though also note that this is very likely a technicality result of the transfer from 4th to 5th editions) Though you did remind me of a posibly important point. A Tau comander with Drones due to the very specific rules involving Tau Drones, also has an arguable case that the drones will not give up seperate KP As a small note, if I was running this I would rule that drones do not count, And that guard do, as well as the expected bits of spore mines and generated units (such as scarabs from a spyder) never giving up kp or vp (unless specificly stated in their rules such as chaos spawn) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/#findComment-2038514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlakir Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Could you provide a rule that says that they are separate HQs? Here are the exact words for the Tau Commander's Bodyguard: "The Commander and his Bodyguard count as a single HQ choice" (C:TE p.32) There is no mention of the FOC.... it just says that they, together, are one HQ choice, not two. I also took a look at the scenario in question. It does not even mention Characters and Retinues, it just says HQ. The Annihilation scenario they based it of mentions Characters and Retinues, but there isn't anything about HQs. This is the only place I can find in the BRB that says that they count as separate units for the purpose of KP, and it's specific for that scenario (ie. doesn't apply elsewhere unless it says so). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172269-what-counts-as-an-hq/#findComment-2038808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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