thrasymacus Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Obviously, spoiler alert to those who haven't read it. But if you haven't read it, how could you answer the question in which case, why are you here? Hmmm... So, not a bad story, not great. It finishes on this dark and sinister note, but I don't know what it's foreshadowing. Can someone more steeped in 40k lore clear this up for me? Just a refresher, the big ominous Dragon book goes missing after Dalia/Rho Mu return to be Dragon Guardians and it says 'Ten thousand years would pass before the next Guardian was drawn to the Noctis Labyrinthus, but by then the damage had been done.' So a great big ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallEye Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 No idea, but its a question i'd like an answer to as well. (A real let down of a novel for me. I appreciate the use of politics and intrigue to paint a picture of pre-heresy Imperial space, but man how about a bit more of the giant titans kicking each others asses?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2036607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffy.Gee Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I believe the 'Dragon' refers to the third C'tan. I may be way off on this but the Dragon is the Necron Machine God that has been laying dormant under the surface of Mars for millions of years. Pop into your local GW and take look through the Necron codex for some fluff on pages 58/59, page 49, page 26 (Visions of the sleeping God makes a brief reference to the Noctis Labrynthus) and finally the inside back cover mentions a Xenos craft landing on the surface of Mars. All of these give references to the Dragon who will hopefully make a full appearance in the next Necron codex (if it ever materializes) so go take a look. Also of possible help is this Necron forum: http://www.thecsg.co.uk/csg/ JG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2036698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeden Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I was going to sit out of commenting on this since I've yet to read Mechanicum myself, but if you're questioning the lore of the Dragon it's something along the lines of this. Currently there are four C'tan, Omnipotent Materium Energy Vampires, remaining in existance. One of their own (The Deciever), created the Necrons out of the Necrontyr, another is the Grim Reaper literally (Night Bringer), one is batpoop insane (Outsider) and the last is indeed the true machine god, the Void Dragon. At the end of the War in Heavens, the C'tan retreated to slumber on a tomb world of their choosing. If I remember right it was something like, Nightbringer - Pavonis (side note: It was the Ultramarines who woke this guy back up) Outsider - Imprisoned in a Dyson Sphere (really cool science gizmo, look up at the theory behind it) Deciever - Some backwater planet And finally the Void Dragon chose Mars. The Martian Inhabitants, through their dreams, recieved information on technology from the Void Dragon and that's why there's the massive amounts of technology on Mars. Not because the AM was smart, but because the Void Dragon told them how to build everything just about. Which I'll just take this point to say, as a Chaos player, you wake up that Tomb World Mars and your petty Imperium is screwed XD Anyways, carrying on, in the Necron codex it actually has a prophecy from an Eldar about what would happen if the Necrons won and in it amongst the other things, the Void Dragon would be creating many Necron Pariahs (guess what a Culexus Assassin is...) and anyone who couldn't be turned into a Pariah, would get hooked up into a massive machine that fed their life force to the Dragon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2036895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrasymacus Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Thanks for the in depth response! I suspected it had to do with the Ctan but it seemed like a strange thing to be throwing into a Horus Heresy novel. I did read that part about a single Necron craft reaching Mars, but that was only after a punishing bombardment destroyed the body of the fleet. So I guess this single ship is supposed to reawaken the Dragon. The Dragon in the story also feeds on the souls or auras of people who have been interred into a big machine so that's pretty spot on with the Eldar prophecy. no mention is made of Soulless/Culexus however. If the AM are fundamentally Necron inspired, why was there the Chamber of Moravec, which was basically where all the Chaos experiments were locked up? In the story, when the Emperor arrives and basically takes a tour, the Chamber of Moravec has already been sealed by the AM. All the Emperor does is tell them to keep it that way (which of course they do not). This was confusing in the story b/c I kept confusing the Chamber of Moravec with the valley of the Dragon. So apparently Mars has big Necron AND Chaos presence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2036989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeden Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I think that would result from the humans having warp presence. Necrons have got almost no warp presence whilst the C'tan have none at all (and the warp is about the only thing that can kill a C'tan). The TechPriests probably came across the warp, started to experiment with it, and when the Dragon found out, he probably got them to seal it. Also, that Necron assault on Mars wasn't a proper attack or anything. They only dispatched three ships, 1 was destroyed in orbit, 2 made it planetside, another was destroyed, and the other managed to get to the entrance to the Tomb before it was destroyed. All they needed was for a single Necron to actually get inside the tomb to start the boot process of the Tomb AI and that would take care of the rest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2037262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 And finally the Void Dragon chose Mars. The Martian Inhabitants, through their dreams, recieved information on technology from the Void Dragon and that's why there's the massive amounts of technology on Mars. Not because the AM was smart, but because the Void Dragon told them how to build everything just about. Which I'll just take this point to say, as a Chaos player, you wake up that Tomb World Mars and your petty Imperium is screwed XD This is pretty close to accurate. I know that you haven't read Mechanicum, but in the novel there's another explanation as to how the Void Dragon ended up on Mars. I'll use some spoiler tags so as not to ruin the novel for anyone who's yet to read it. The Void Dragon was defeated and imprisoned on Mars by the Emperor. The Emperor knew about the Void Dragon's influence and knew that by locking it away on Mars, it would whisper to the planet's human inhabitants in their dreams. Eventually the people of Mars were told how to create greater and greater marvels of technology, though they were entirely unaware that they were in fact being influenced and weren't figuring stuff out on their own. So this means that Mars is not, in fact, a Tomb World, it's merely the resting place of the Void Dragon. When the Necrons attempted to reach Mars with their ships, they were likely Necrons loyal to the Void Dragon who had managed to locate where it slept. They made something of a rescue attempt and were nearly successful, with one vessel actually touching down on the surface of the red planet before being obliterated from space. A probable reason that the Necrons had only three ships to spare for their rescue attempt is because the Void Dragon likely has its own Necron warriors that are specially modified and even more resilient than normal as stated in Eldar legend. To be more specific, the Necrons loyal to the Void Dragon were a gleaming, shining metallic silver colour and were nearly impossible to destroy. Lexicanum has some information on this legend, though the best source of information on it would be to read the issue of White Dwarf that the story was printed in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2071548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaled100 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 IAlso, that Necron assault on Mars wasn't a proper attack or anything. They only dispatched three ships, 1 was destroyed in orbit, 2 made it planetside, another was destroyed, and the other managed to get to the entrance to the Tomb before it was destroyed. All they needed was for a single Necron to actually get inside the tomb to start the boot process of the Tomb AI and that would take care of the rest. Do we know if they were actually trying to wake the Dragon? Or that they were even allied with it? Given the fact that the C'tan have been killing one another for aeons, it strikes me as being entirely possible that the ships were dispatched to Mars to ensure that it was still asleep and that it stayed that way. Perhaps by destroying those ships, the Imperium has only hastened its demise. The Void Dragon was defeated and imprisoned on Mars by the Emperor. The Emperor knew about the Void Dragon's influence and knew that by locking it away on Mars, it would whisper to the planet's human inhabitants in their dreams. Eventually the people of Mars were told how to create greater and greater marvels of technology, though they were entirely unaware that they were in fact being influenced and weren't figuring stuff out on their own. All of which means that the Emperor literally is the Omnissiah of Martian legend - he left the Dragon there as the seed for the AdMech along with the prophesy that the Omnissiah would return so as to make sure that when necessary he could reunite Terra and Mars under his leadership. A prophesy He then fulfilled when he went to Mars at the start of the Great Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2071792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Zaku Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Thus the great lie of the Mechanicum. Gotta love these blacked-out posts, eh folks? Hey B&C bosses, howsabout putting in a spoiler option for creating new topics? What the addendum was alluding to was that the Void Dragons buddies were coming soon and, given that the addendum says it happens ten thousand years later...well, let's just say that the one Necron scout ship landing on Mars was just a taste of things to come. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2075059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Yes but with the book out it will likly restart and worsen the division that was forming over the nature of the Omnissiah in the book. It is not somthing that should see the light of day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2080756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Let's not forget that the book dissappeared. And that whilst quite a few cogboys are all over the Necrons, some are calling for the obliteration of the Noctis Labyrinth by orbital bombardment. The damage refered to is, I believe, the schism in the AdMech over this. In short, some of them see the Necrons and the C'Tan as the Omnissiah, not knowing that they are pawns of an ancient evil easily on par with Cthulhu... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2111386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeden Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Through and through I just have to constantly refute this one point of Mechanicum. There's too big of a questionable event surrounding how the Emperor did this. The simplest way to describe the C'tan are they are to the Materium, what the Dark Gods are to the Immaterium. Massive sentient energy native to the respective "reality" that holds great power over it. By the time the C'tan were going to sleep, Prime-Apes were just descending from the trees thanks to the Deciever. I don't care how old the Emperor is, but unless he isn't human at all, there is no way he could've been alive when the Void Dragon went to sleep on Mars. Then there is the question of where was he? Did he appear before the Warp Storms? If so, why did the Terran Conflict happen? Did he appear during the Terran Conflict? If so, when did he have the time to go romping around the galaxy looking for the Dragons tomb world then wake the guy up, drag his ethereal buttocks across Tzeentch knows how much distance, then build a tomb impossibly deep just to dump the guy? It's simply not possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2112440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midas Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Unless the Emperor was a C'tan..... lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2116597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaled100 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 It's simply not possible. I think it's only a problem when people take the story in Mechanicum too literally - the story related to us in the book about the knight fighting the dragon is an allegory rather than a literal retelling of events. The Emperor was apparently born in about 8000BC, so still some time after the Dragon went to sleep on Mars, but perhaps a portion of the Dragon's power was somehow exploring his surroundings and came to Earth while it slumbered (in a similar way to how his dreams influenced the culture on Mars). Maybe it was this that the Emperor 'fought', eventually defeating the Dragon and binding it (perhaps turning the Dragon's own refuge into a prison) to keep it quiescent so it could play it's part in the Emperor's grand plan for humanity). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2119396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeothar Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I'd say that the Dragon chose Earth as its resting place. Remember; the story of the fight between the Emperor and the Dragon took place in present day Lybia, which is nigh on near Egypt, which has all these nifty tombs, pyramids and other stuffs associated with (the first incarnation of...) Necrons. All the signs are there for this to be true. 65 million years ago, a great cataclysm took out just about 95% of all life on Earth. The timing is just right, as at that time, the Enslavers were devouring all sentient life in the galaxy and the C'Tan decided to take a nap before starting it all anew. The Dragon chose poorly; he chose a world not entirely devoid of life; Sol III / Terra / Earth. The Deceiver woke earlier than most other C'Tan, to restart its nefarious works. What if the Dragon also woke before the other two? We know from Nightbringer, that its initial presence was not at all that powerful once awoken and it needed to feed, a lot, to regain its strength. So the Dragon could have used its powers to influence the primitive people of Earth to sacrifice their virgins, so it could grow stronger once it was awake. Remember that all C'Tan work in their own ways; it appears that the Dragon works through mindcontrol more than anything else, where the Deceiver works through genetic manipulation and the Nightbringer through turning its followers into automatons. (Heck knows what twisted ways the Outsider works its non-magic...) Anyway; the Emperor found out, kicked its butt (because it was still not up to its original strength) and through his Warpbased powers, locked the Dragon away on Mars, already foreseeing what role it would play in the eons to come. Mars wasn't a Tombworld; Earth was! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2141928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrumIgnatus Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 What the addenda ending alludes to? Something... something...something...DARK SIDE! (Sorry, couldn't resist) Anyway, I believe the ending points at the incident were a few Necron ships were able to penetrate the Mars defence ring -HOW they did that simply scares me to the bones, since Mars' defences aren't exactly... puny and futile.- and one of them even managed to land on Mars' surface. "But by then, the damage was already done" means; The Void Dragon is rebooting his operative system, upgrading his drives to the newest versions, and is slowly gathering enough power to break free of the Noctis Labyrinthus.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2144909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMullet Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 well if he's updateing, you better hope it's not to Vista, or he's gonna be one angry dragon! anyway, earth is a tomb world? where does this info come from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2144920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeothar Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 well if he's updateing, you better hope it's not to Vista, or he's gonna be one angry dragon!anyway, earth is a tomb world? where does this info come from? Deduction and speculation brother; oil on the fire of discussion so to speak... :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2144983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenaria Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 What the ending refers to? Hm. Try reading "Titanicus", see if you find anything there *whistle* It's out in paperback soon, though last year I figured, feth, it's about TITANS, yes, I want it oversized and hardback and damned be my bookshelf size. And yes, you want to read it anyway. It's about Titans. Titans. How could it not be awesometastic? I find that my urge to make my Titan Legions Epic army is growing again... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2145025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 One last thing not mentioned here about the ending of "Mechanicum" The book being stolen means that when a new guardian would come, Dalya will not be able to show the new guy the lie of mars and she wont be able to convince the new guy to take the post and keep on with the guarding thing... Remember Dalya was esceptical about tha whole thing until the old guardian gets her in front of the book and lets her see the thruth, wich, by the way, was the memories of the dragon itself, not 100% accurate, but wasnt something alegoric at all, the fight happened, and gave birth to the legend of Saint George the Dragonslayer (not told direclty in the book but the year and main elements of the legend are there). How E gets the dragon to mars I dont know, but at those times the warp was relatively calm, so maybe he just opened a warpgate and throw the dragon throgh it and landed on Mars the next minute. <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2226112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexTalon Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 well if he's updateing, you better hope it's not to Vista, or he's gonna be one angry dragon!anyway, earth is a tomb world? where does this info come from? LOL! I can see it now... "Are you sure you want to awaken?" yes "Are you really sure" YES! "Are you sure you want to attack Earth?" OMG!!! Now here's something that might bake your brain. The Inquisition and even the High Lords all know merely a fraction of the Emperor's true path and intentions. With access to that chamber and the ancient writings, the Guardian of the Dragon may be the most knowledgeable human alive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2227433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplainmeliadus Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Remember that all C'Tan work in their own ways; it appears that the Dragon works through mindcontrol more than anything else, where the Deceiver works through genetic manipulation and the Nightbringer through turning its followers into automatons. (Heck knows what twisted ways the Outsider works its non-magic...) Apparently, it created the 'nids. (The following is just what I was told by a staff member, who "was talking to one of the designers once", so I don't have any source materials. Feel free to start reaching for your salt shakers.) The Outsider went insane from eating lots of other C'Tan (thanks to that pesky Deceiver again), and their voices or minds or something stayed with it, creating a gestalt mind. Sound familiar? Also there's the 'Nid "Shadow in the Warp", an area where the warp cannot be accessed; just the sort of thing a C'Tan would like. Also, can't remember and may be making this bit up, it possibly ran away, out of the galaxy, where the 'Nids appear from some time later. No mention was given to how they were made, or what from, and I wish now that's I'd thought to try and pry at all of these sorts of details. I have no idea how true any of this all is, but I personally like the idea that the C'Tan were directly responsible for creating at least 3 of the main playable races, aand indirectly at least another two. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2248990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystrom Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 The Outsider went insane from eating lots of other C'Tan (thanks to that pesky Deceiver again) I thought it was the Harlequin God, the Laughing God that made the Outsider go insane... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2250779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplainmeliadus Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 They're both called the laughing god. I had assumed they were one and the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2253500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Zaku Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Also, remember that Eldar allusion to the C'Tan made in that one verse. 'The Vaul Moon will bring the Dragon'. Vaul Moon obviously means Mars, and Dragon? I think I can see Jervis sitting on his pile of money, head resting on his tented hands thinking, 'Just as planned'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172287-mechanicum-novel-question/#findComment-2267550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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