minigun762 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Land Raiders are iconic units for all space marines, and thanks to the buff vehicles received in 5th Edition, they're now competitive, but who does the "Raider Rush" best? Codex Marines: +Have the new awesome Power of the Machine Spirit +Have access to three types of Land Raiders +Can fit most bodies inside -Land Raiders are very expensive and don't come with Extra Armor standard Chaos Marines: +Cheapest stock Land Raider +Daemonic Possession is superior to Extra Armor -D. Possession is usually weaker then PotMS -Only one type of Land Raider is available -Can fit the least bodies inside Black Templar: +Can field the most Land Raiders +Raiders come standard with Extra Armor, PotMS and Multi-Melta (for LRC) +Have access to (arguably) the two best types of Land Raiders -PotMS is weaker then Codex Marines So which army can field the best combination of lots of good Land Raiders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeychunks Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I know it's probably being awkward, but the undisputed masters of this are actually the Daemonhunters. Potential for 7 in a standard FOC, with dirt cheap squads inside them. Each Inquisitor can take a personal Raider, and minimum troops is only 100pts. You can quite easily fit 5 into a 1500pt game. Basically the only downside is that their Crusaders are pretty shabby, with the Assault Cannons only getting 3 shots and no rending. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 And if you take Space Marine with Inquisitor allies, or maybe it's vica-versa, you can probably get more. You asked for Land Raider Spam, not who has the best Land Raiders... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 And if you take Space Marine with Inquisitor allies, or maybe it's vica-versa, you can probably get more. You asked for Land Raider Spam, not who has the best Land Raiders... True, but I guess I'd prefer 4 good Land Raiders to 5 crappy ones. ^_^ So I'll make it more clear that way haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a crappy Land Raider, as they all have their pros and cons. As to DH Land Raiders, their Crusaders are the best in the game with the ability to more 12" and fire both Hurricane sponsons as well as either their assault cannons or their free multi-melta; and this is on top or their free extra armour. All for 255pts. However, their AC's are only Heavy 3, you have to buy their smoke launchers and search lights separately, they have a 15 model troop capacity, and only Grey Knights may be transported. I think it balances out. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin .44 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I know it's probably being awkward, but the undisputed masters of this are actually the Daemonhunters. Potential for 7 in a standard FOC, with dirt cheap squads inside them. Each Inquisitor can take a personal Raider, and minimum troops is only 100pts. You can quite easily fit 5 into a 1500pt game. Basically the only downside is that their Crusaders are pretty shabby, with the Assault Cannons only getting 3 shots and no rending. ummmmm, no. I believe an Inquisitor may take a Land Raider, Not a Crusader. but you are absolutely correct on rolling in with 5 land raiders. Even Templars say "What the :jaw: ? but then they realise nothing is really inside them. :jaw: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 You should probably add a disadvantage to Codex: Marines. "Can take the least Land Raiders" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 You should probably add a disadvantage to Codex: Marines."Can take the least Land Raiders" 5 land raiders in a list isn't really a small number. =P (you can take 3 LRs for heavy support slots, and 2 as dedicated transports for terminator squads) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergerjo Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Codex Marines can take 5 Land Raiders: 3 Heavy Support 1 Dedicated Transport for an Assault Terminator Squad 1 Dedicated Transport for a Terminator Squad Mind you at the LEAST that is 1600 points with 5 Redeemers and 1 min Assault Termie Squad and 1 min Termie Squad with NO TROOPS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Yes, while every other army out there (maybe not SW or BA, not sure) can take more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmunzelhase Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Well, Black Templars are able to field 14 LR Crusader in a single FOC. Or three LR and 11 LRC if you like to mix... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxe Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 The Dark Angels can take the smallest amount of LR/LRC. Only 3 as Heavy support. :confused: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 nobody does LR spam well, since to take more than one or two is crazy, especially if we are talking about 1500-2000 points, a LR is 250+ points and all you get a couple of (albeit strong) weapons, A couple of meltas at close range could really ruin your day.. Just not worth the risk, putting all your points in so few models that to be honest can be largely ignored or killed by a dedicated anti-tank or suicide unit.. Not worth it.. Mass troops now thats a different story! GC08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2037971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Thing with LR spamming, like all spamming, is that all those LR's become a self-supporting machine that just grinds down an opponent. Lose one LR? "No problem, I've got six more and they've all moved 7+ inches and just popped smoke; good luck with that!" Yes, melta kill LR's. And? Are you ready to face 6+ AV14 tanks that can target twice there number of enemy units after moving? It's like going up against a list with 11 Sister of Battle Immolators. Yep, that's 11+ AV11 metal coffins that just so happen to be able to move 12" and still drop a S5, AP4, twin-linked template. Quantity has a quality of its own. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2038543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Well Im a SW player, so perhaps Im a bit biassed... but we can take 23 landraiders in a single FOC. I dont think anyone else can make that claim. All it takes is playing a 15000pt battle so we can take 20 HQs, each with a single WGBG, who then allows us to purchase a landraider as a transport, and of course three heavy supports ;). Just throwin it out there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2038758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Dark Angels get free multi-meltas on our LRCs... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2038789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
collins254 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 just throwing this out there but how do space wolves get 20 hq choices in 15000 points? i thought only WH Fantasy worked in points-choices ratio? in 15000 points with 2 FOC you can get 28 land raiders with BT tho so space wolves still dont have the most, i would say templars do it the best being as in every single section of the FOC you can take a LRC except fast attack choices, though theyre transport cap is only 15 men, i dont think C:SM can get a 15 man squad? 12 tops with 2 HQ's as IC packed into 1 unit, tho i know im sad for working this out 2 marshalls with 100points of equipment and fully kitted command squad EC with AAC vow 3 , 8man assault termie squads 5 15 man 10/5 crusader squad with full upgrades a 14 man squad for EC some aasault marines and land speeders in 3 choices 3 LR and 11 dedicated transport LRC all vehicles with Extra armor and smokes is 7k points (or there abouts its 7115 i think) makes a niceday of gaming 7000 points aside and on 1 FOC not may armies can make those points and nothin will rival that in weight on AV14 may your swords stay sharp Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2038910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 just throwing this out there but how do space wolves get 20 hq choices in 15000 points? i thought only WH Fantasy worked in points-choices ratio? in 15000 points with 2 FOC you can get 28 land raiders with BT tho so space wolves still dont have the most, i would say templars do it the best being as in every single section of the FOC you can take a LRC except fast attack choices, though theyre transport cap is only 15 men, i dont think C:SM can get a 15 man squad? 12 tops with 2 HQ's as IC packed into 1 unit, One HQ per 750pts rounding up is a Requirement for the SW force- no more, no fewer. Thus at 15000pts you need exactly 20 HQs, no more, no less. Id have said more, but since you can only take 20 wolf gaurd bodygaurds and they are the ones who take the transport it would be the upper limit of said spam. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2039079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
collins254 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Thus at 15000pts you need exactly 20 HQs, no more, no less. Id have said more, but since you can only take 20 wolf gaurd bodygaurds and they are the ones who take the transport it would be the upper limit of said spam. thats alot of land raiders, would suck tho coz the only army that could come close to filling 15000 points on one FOC is imperial guard, you would fall about 3k short on my estimate (tho i dont own the codex so i can be sure) and i would rather sit in a corner than cry than play 15000 points of guard with just land raiders and some other bits to try and fill 15k, soooo many lascannon shots would fly, and vendettas would have flying lascannons *shudder* but i believe we are getting off topic, standard game size is 1500-2000 where templars are the only army i can think of that can get 15 non terminator models in one squad, 2 raiders with 14 man crusader squads and an IC each would be sick at 1500 and add another again for 2000 making 3, huge point sink but VERY difficult to deal with, and our do come with extra armor standard and can still have blessed hull (suck it eldar/dark eldar) and our POTMS still lets us moved if stunned (which is pointless due to extra armor but its still there) and our smoke launchers mean cant get penertrating hits on our raiders, at games up to 7k it would be templars, above that only a handful of armies can fill the points, or ypur playin apocalypse rules, and land raider vs baneblade, well we know who wins there dont we. enough off me may your swords stay sharp Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2039727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Well Landraider with extra armor and a PMSB is 285. A Wolf Gaurd Battle Leader with maxed equipment is 200pts. A maxed out WGBG sits at around 120pts So that means after each HQ I have to fill 145pts. 145x20= 2,900pts. I think I can figure out how to spend even 3500 points outside of HQs and one elite slot.... and then theres the three HS landraiders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2039873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Well, I found the 20 HQ statement above to be a bit misleading, so I did some quick force builds to see which armies could do LR spam the best. The only codex I'm missing is Dark Angels, so please forgive me: Space Wolves can have total of 8 Land Raiders due to their ability have up to 20 Wolf Guard which can be fielded as retinues to HQ IC's at a minimum of 4 Wolf Guard Bodyguards to a retinue, and only Wolf Guard Bodyguards may purchase Land Raiders as dedicated transports. And with their HQ requirements of 1 per 750pts, this means that Space Wolves max out on LR's at 3750pts with 5 HQ's and 3 Heavies at a cost of 468pts per Land Raider. Codex Space Marines have access to the cheapest LR's in the game, the Redeemer, and they can top out at 5 Redeemers at 1850pts with 2 Elites and 3 Heavies. Not bad, and at only 370pts per Land Raider. Blood Angels have the cheapest Crusaders in the game at 250pts each with all the trimmings; however, they can only have 3 LR's as they may only take them as Heavies. They max out their LR's on a minimal list of 1080pts for 360pts per Land Raider. Black Templers are the kings of Crusader spam; too bad their Crusaders cost 265pts. They can have 14 LR's on a singel FOC at a minimum army total of 4713pts and 337pts per Land Raider. Not too many people think of Witch Hunter when they think of Land Raiders, yet they too can have up tp 4 in their army: 1 HQ and 3 Elites. The minimal list needed to field all 4 tops out at 1241pts and 310pts per Land Raider. An army I forgot and now just added is the Chaos Space Marines, who at 1830pts can field 6 LR's at 220pts a piece (3 Elite, 3 Heavy), which comes out to 305pts per Land Raider. At 2053pts, a minimal list of Daemonhunters that can field all 7 of their LR's (1 HQ, 3 Elite, 3 Heavy) will cost them 293pts per Land Raider. As such, I'd say that Daemonhunters can field the most LR's for the least amout of points for an overall win of "Who does Land Raider Spam the Best." SJ *Edit was to add a CSM entry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2042164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
confused_gordy Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 jeffersonian000 one quick thing your wrong on, the cheapest LR is not the redeemer, it is the chaos space marine land raider at 220. They can get 4 in a 1500 pt game with 290 pts left to play with. Or 6 in a 2000 pt game with 170 pts left to play with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2042396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Good point. I forgot they had LR's. I'll work up a list and add my results to my other post. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172388-who-does-land-raider-spam-best/#findComment-2043353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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