Grimmaw Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I want to do a Pre Heresy Epic World Eaters Chapter and i want to have the different companies in the army but i dont know a lot about them so Does anyone happen to know how many WE companies there were Who led each company? and What each company consisted of? i know its a big ask but ive been searching the net and ploughed through lexicanum and couldnt really find anything thanks Grim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Well I know that Khârn was the 8th company captain. Because of their focus on hand too hand you could barrow from older Blood Angels info for some of it as I would think that there would be some simalarities. Figure for pre HH you are looking at a force of 3,000 to 6,000 men plus APCs and Armour support. While they probably didn't use them very often pre HH World Eaters would also have access to Fellblades too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2038214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fol_Muroj Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Several questions. First: What timeframe, as a World Eaters force prior to Angron (nee War Hounds) would be far different in composition than what landed on Istvaan III, for instance. Likewise, a mostly Terran-born force would differ than the frothing Berzerkers of latter days. Next, what kind of composition. Early Legion forces would be more conventional in composition, with an emphasis on assault units, but with support elements such as Devastators, Predators, and the like that would be missing in a Berzerker unit. As time wore on, there would be fewer and fewer tactical and devastator marines, due to the implanting of all neophytes with the aggression boosters. Finally, what kind of force do you want to run? Frothing Berzekers with chainaxes? A tactically balanced force that has assault Marines with ample fire support? World Eaters Armored Company? Gak, World Eaters Artillery Support? (This last was alluded to in After Desh'ea, as they wouldn't need a master shellsmith if they had no artillery.) Two prototype force: 8th Expeditionary Fleet (Prior to Istvaan III): 8th Assault Company (all assault marines, some jump packs) 12th Assault Company (all assault marines, some jump packs) 15th Assault Company (all assault marines, some jump packs) 3rd Battle Company (tactical marines, understrength, standard organization) 4th Support Company (all devastators, understrength) World Eater Armored Support (land raiders/predators/rhinos) 8th Expeditionary Fleet (Prior to Angron) 8th Battle Company (tactical marines, standard organization) 12th Battle Company (tactical marines, standard organization) 15th Assault Company (mostly assault marines, some devastators) 3rd Battle Company (tactical marines, standard organization) 4th Support Company (all devastators) World Eater Armored Support (land raiders/predators/whirlwinds/rhinos) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2038264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Khârn was captain of the 8th, apart from that yu will have to look up somewhere, as I'm sure there are no *current* records of any other captians and their respective companies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2038279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmaw Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 well thats a lot of answers @ Fol_Muroj i like the sound of this one 8th Expeditionary Fleet (Prior to Istvaan III): 8th Assault Company (all assault marines, some jump packs) 12th Assault Company (all assault marines, some jump packs) 15th Assault Company (all assault marines, some jump packs) 3rd Battle Company (tactical marines, understrength, standard organization) 4th Support Company (all devastators, understrength) World Eater Armored Support (land raiders/predators/rhinos) so roughly how many marines would be in each? and what do you mean by understrength and standard organisation? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2038291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fol_Muroj Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Company strength varies. There are many variations on this. One has the standard one hundred battle-brothers per company as per Codex. One has the presumably chapter-sized Great Companies of the Death Guard and Space Wolves. I, personally, would leave a company at a maximum of two hundred battle-brothers. Again, it's up to you. Personally, I'd make Assault Companies larger than their more conventional counterparts. (Say, 200 - 300 Assault Marines/Assault Company, 100 - 200 Tactical/Devastator Marines per Company.) As for understrength, keep in mind that by the time of the Heresy, the World Eaters were mostly frothing Berzerkers. The way I've always seen it, only Terran born Marines were left in the Tactical and Devastator units, given that Angron ordered all neophytes implanted with the aggression boosters. I don't know about you, but I somehow doubt that a kill-crazy madman would be much good in a Devastator unit, given their predilection to charge the enemy at all costs. Since no new Marines were replacing casualties in Devastator or Tactical squads, said units would be understrength as a matter of course. (Though suitably battle-hardened and elite.) As Battle Companies shrunk and shrunk, they would be consolidated together, but even this would not have kept unit integrity or strength up, and eventually the entire Legion (even had it not fallen to Chaos) would have been purely assault-oriented. Thus, I would field far fewer Tactical and Devastator Marines in these sort of units. With regards to standard composition, I mean for a Battle Company, and I refer to a mixture of Tactical, Assault, and Devastator Squads. (As found in the Codex.) In comparison, an Assault Company would be all assault squads, hordes with chainaxe and bolt pistol, sans long range firepower. In a more traditional organization, artillery support would have utilized, namely Whirlwinds. By the Heresy, the only concern was to get into the face of the enemy so as to use chainaxe, and so primarily transport vehicles would have been fielded. Of course, this is all my take on the PH-World Eaters. Others doubtlessly have their own perspectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2038317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I agree with Fol_Muroj, I think thats a pretty good take on the state of the legion at various points pre-heresy. Most people think that the World Eaters were always frothing beserkers, but this is a trend that only began after Angron joined the legion and even then took some time to propogate. I think Grimmaw that before you set such lofty targets of making entire companies (assuming of course that you aren't making an epic scale force!) try and get some individual units put together and painted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2038323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmaw Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 ok thanks for the replies so i should generally follow the standard chapter organisation but switch tactical squads for assault squads and only have like you say a ompay made up of devastators and the same for tactical @ Pacific81 i am doing an Epic scale force Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2038332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 *facepalm* :) Ok, I would love to see some epic scale WE when you have done them! its not something I have seen before :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2038364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmaw Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 not a very big pic but heres some not mine though http://www.epic40k.co.uk/lib/comp/epicomp07/unit12b.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2038369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Mournival Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Well, i know is a bit late but I just thought I'd mention and confirm some stuff others had said; Khârn was the Leader of the 8th assault company and from what Loken describes of him a pretty nice and honourable warrior. There's also Captain Ehrlen who I don't know what company he commanded but he did lead the strikeforce of loyalist WE onto the Surface of Istavvan III and was killed by Angron there. There is one more Captain which I know of but I do not know what company he lead; this captain would be Captain Skraal from Battle For The Abyss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2040412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 By the time of the Heresy, most WE weren't frothing Berserkers, they were just generally irritable and angry. All Terran born marines in the legion were extremely proud and quite ego-tistical. If that's even a word :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2040684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Mournival Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 By the time of the Heresy, most WE weren't frothing Berserkers, they were just generally irritable and angry. All Terran born marines in the legion were extremely proud and quite ego-tistical. If that's even a word :P It is but I'm 90% sure it's egotistical; and either way most Terran marines were like this as many couldn't come to terms with what their legions had become or they were very proud (whether outwardly or inwardly) and as you said egotistical. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2041068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 actually even the terrans were frothing beserkers as the whole legin had the implants, terran or otherwise. This was implemented after angron took control, look at hh book tales of heresy for the angron story as it will give you some more names. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2049983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 By the time of the Heresy the implants were well entrenched in the Legion. I would say that the Veteran assault units would have been the worst though. They still had structure, mechanised infantry with heavy support etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2050262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 That may not be entierly true. While we know that Angeron wanted all his men implanted it is indicated that replicating and perfecting the implants tooks some time. While the new Chaos codexs calls this some kind of loabotomisation process i doubt that that this was originally the case as even Angeron had a good working understanding of tactics and such in the begining. He was model on Spartacus after all. Also remeber that between Istavaan and Terra The World Eaters dedicated themselves to Khorn and were given his mark. The Mark of the Blood God has ALWAYS turned men into frothing combat monsters so it is not absolutly needed that all the Legion have the implants before Istavaan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2050878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Mournival Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 That may not be entierly true. While we know that Angeron wanted all his men implanted it is indicated that replicating and perfecting the implants tooks some time. While the new Chaos codexs calls this some kind of loabotomisation process i doubt that that this was originally the case as even Angeron had a good working understanding of tactics and such in the begining. He was model on Spartacus after all. Also remeber that between Istavaan and Terra The World Eaters dedicated themselves to Khorn and were given his mark. The Mark of the Blood God has ALWAYS turned men into frothing combat monsters so it is not absolutly needed that all the Legion have the implants before Istavaan. and my response to you thinking the WE are always berserk is: I'd actually have to disagree with you all a tiny bit; Khârn is a blood thirsty killer yes, but one would stand to reason that Khârn would stop trying to kill things after x amount of time after battle. On Skaalaathrax or whatever the correct spelling is Khârn only torched his own men because he was still quite battle crazed and there were enemies to kill; and after he had torched the tents and killed every emperor's children marine he obviously didn't kill all of the other berserkers and even if he did someone would need to come and fly him off planet; would he really kill all the crew on a ship? It's really the same with all berserkers, they'd have to stop killing sooner or later; and marines like Lord Zhufor or whatever in vraks part 2 would obviously have some self control or nothing would get done. Wild animals can only be effective for so long; when they start to think is when they become dangerous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2050964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I think its been described in several stories and pieces of background describing the World Eaters, that the blood frenzy and rage overtakes them as they go into battle (hence the 'Berserker' reference). But, as has been pointed out, it would be impossible to function at this level permanently. I can imagine the pre-heresy World Eaters to be the same - After Desh'ea describes the various captains facing off against each other, their tensions hanging by a thread as they are ready to launch themselves at each other. The character Skraal in Battle for the Abyss is shown as having massive aggression, yet no mention is made of his having the implants, as with the troops which are sparring with each other earlier on in the book and exhibit the same will for bloodletting. I think we can assume that the World Eaters already have a thinly veiled blood lust and frenzy (they are the progeny of Angronn after all, and share his genetic traits even before they have been repatriated with him) - when the neural implants are introduced, something which happens with increasing pace once Angron has taken his place at the head of the Legion. Quote from IA article: Knowing how effective at boosting a warrior's prowess the psycho surgery could be, Angron ordered the Techmarines of the World Eaters to duplicate the process, using the implants in his head as a template. However, I think the Implants then took the marines already massive aggression and turned it into something uncontrollable and psychotic, so that massacres became more and more common. Again a quote from the IA article: Initially, the enhanced companies were highly successful, quickly gaining a fearsome reputation as terror troops......But it was only a matter of time before the Legion's use of psycho surgery on its recruits became widely known. Following the infamous Ghenna Scouring, where an entire planet's population were butchered in a single night of bloodshed, the World Eaters were censured by the Emperor and commanded to cease the use of implants. Then, right towards the end and while the Heresy is in motion: Angron paid little heed to this and ordered the work of the Techmarines to continue, until almost every Space Marine in the Legion had undergone the ritual surgery. Blood rites became an increasingly important part of the Legion's heritage as their slaughter continued across the galaxy, and it became common practice for Space Marines to compete in the number of enemy skulls they could take in battle. So, there is the answer on use of psycho-surgery in the legion. I think it makes a massive difference towards army composition what stage in history you are basing your World Eaters force on. Ealier on in the Great Crusade I think the force would be much more balanced (although still with a bias towards assault troops, the Legion had this reputation even before the discover of Angron), but as time goes on and after the discovery of the Primarch it quickly steamrolls towards the legion of berserkers and chaos that we eventually know today. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2051264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulkan's wrath Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 on www.belloflostsouls.net, there is an entire campaign book that they handmade. it has lots of pictures, named characters, and background for all the legions. hope this helps! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172472-pre-heresy-world-eaters/#findComment-2052214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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