Duce Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hey, Hoping this is the right subject since its a general question. Just wanting to know offhand if Vulkan's melta/flamer rerolls work on sternguard combi weapons? Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narazil Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hey, Hoping this is the right subject since its a general question. Just wanting to know offhand if Vulkan's melta/flamer rerolls work on sternguard combi weapons? Thanks I'm pretty sure it does, as when combi-weapon shoot, they do it as a meltagun or flamer - which he affects. I'm not 100%, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2038969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 If that were the case Combi-Bolters could use the space wolves true grit rule. Sorry if the weapon is not specificlly listed word for word, each weapon not listed is treated as a different weapon entirely even if it uses similar rules. A combi-melta could be a lascannon for what the Vulkan's rule entitles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2039093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narazil Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 People seem to agree with me in this thread Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2039102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceddyn Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 If that were the case Combi-Bolters could use the space wolves true grit rule. Sorry if the weapon is not specificlly listed word for word, each weapon not listed is treated as a different weapon entirely even if it uses similar rules. A combi-melta could be a lascannon for what the Vulkan's rule entitles. It's listed word for word that a combi weapons houses a second one-shot weapon that's either a flamer, a meltagun or a plasmagun. Furthermore if it would be a different weapon they'd have given them their own stats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2039259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 If that were the case Combi-Bolters could use the space wolves true grit rule. I think Space Wolves can't use True Grit with combi-weapons because it specifically states they can't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2039348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou666 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 no, they definetly can reroll. it clearly sates that any flamer or melta weapons are twin linked. even though its a combi flamer, it still has the word flamer in the title doesnt it??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2040047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 If that were the case Combi-Bolters could use the space wolves true grit rule. I think Space Wolves can't use True Grit with combi-weapons because it specifically states they can't. According to Codex: Space Wolves second printing, we are able to use True-Grit with combi-weapons and bolters, but not storm bolters. It's the first printing that says we can't, I believe. So for Wolves, it depends on which printing you have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2040277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 no, they definetly can reroll. it clearly sates that any flamer or melta weapons are twin linked. even though its a combi flamer, it still has the word flamer in the title doesnt it??? Yes, they can reroll, but it has nothing to do with the word Flamer in the title. Hotshot Lasguns might have the word "Lasgun" in their title, but they still cannot make use of the FRFSRF rule in the IG codex. They reroll because they fire as a Flamer, and Flamer appears in the list of which weapons are affected by Vulcan. A bit of semantics, but a distinction I believe is important when trying to decipher GWs rules in general. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2040431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrab Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I would say no. The rules list the guns that get the benefit, and combis are not listed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2040627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I would say no.The rules list the guns that get the benefit, and combis are not listed According to that logic, then you wouldnt get the reroll with Vulkans heavy flamer, as the gauntlet fires as a heavy flamer, it is not a heavy flamer. However, you still look at the profile of the heavy flamer to fire the gauntlet, just like you look at the profile of the melta when you fire the combi melta. And the profile of all meltas and heavy flamers in a Vulkan list is amended to include 'twin linked' Thats my take anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2040702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrab Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I would say no.The rules list the guns that get the benefit, and combis are not listed According to that logic, then you wouldnt get the reroll with Vulkans heavy flamer, as the gauntlet fires as a heavy flamer, it is not a heavy flamer. However, you still look at the profile of the heavy flamer to fire the gauntlet, just like you look at the profile of the melta when you fire the combi melta. And the profile of all meltas and heavy flamers in a Vulkan list is amended to include 'twin linked' Thats my take anyway. oh, i understand your argument perfectly, and i think it is badly worded RAI clearly is anything that fires as one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2040722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceddyn Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I would say no.The rules list the guns that get the benefit, and combis are not listed Please read what a combi weapon is in the wargear section of the codex. The rules state that it consists of a normal bolter with a secondary one-shot weapon attached, which is either a flamer, meltagun or plasma gun. None of them have special stats of their own, they just use the rules of the respective weapon. If it's called a flamer, it has the stats of a flamer, it fires like a flamer, then it is a flamer and uses all rules and benefits a flamer gets from Vulkan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2040723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrab Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I would say no.The rules list the guns that get the benefit, and combis are not listed Please read what a combi weapon is in the wargear section of the codex. The rules state that it consists of a normal bolter with a secondary one-shot weapon attached, which is either a flamer, meltagun or plasma gun. None of them have special stats of their own, they just use the rules of the respective weapon. If it's called a flamer, it has the stats of a flamer, it fires like a flamer, then it is a flamer and uses all rules and benefits a flamer gets from Vulkan. the last sentence doesnt matter the wargear definition does, and you are right it clearly states that it houses the secondary weapon, so that is covered. However, acting like one doesnt matter Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2040725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 it clearly states that it houses the secondary weapon, so that is covered. However, acting like one doesnt matter Exactly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2041136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakiq Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 It fires just like a flamer, and how does a flamer in Vulkan's army work? That's right, twin-linked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2041386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 the key is that a "flamer" is specifically called out as being subject to vulkan's special rule. "flame weapons" and weapons that fire "like a flamer" are not. combi weapons ARE both a bolter and the special weapon, and use ALL rules for both, plus the additional restriction of a single shot on the special weapon component. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172524-combi-weapons-effected-by-vulkans-reroll/#findComment-2041397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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