Has anyone tried?

[Captain of The Inceptors]

Hi there,

I was looking at it and it finally hit me, you can have a 10 man Sternguard Squad all with combi-flamers.

 

Has anyone tried this and how effective was it?

 

oh man, Vulkan would make the opponent scream cheese.

[greatcrusade08]

against MEQ or TEQ they would probably be better with combi-plasmas, at rapid fire range let the carnage commence

[Bannus]

Actually, the falmers would probably be better than combi-plasma against MEqs (and safer for the Sternguard as well!) simply because of the sheer volume of saving throws they would force on the unit. Add Vulcan and you are pretty much assured of wiping the unit out.

[Captain of The Inceptors]

Hey guys thanks for the replies.

 

I set up the models then realised that GC08 is correct against MEQ's plasma would be better. (in my expected scenario - disembarkation/without Vulkan)

 

Something to remember is that if you did this on the turn you disembark from a vehicle (I set up a Rhino) you would be able to fire all plasmaguns but not all flamers - template weapons must not touch a friendly model.

 

given the chance though heres how I look at it;

against spread out MEQ

 

Flamer 4 hits each template 10 templates = 40 hits

of these hits its 4+ to wound = 20 wounds

saves of 3+ = 6/7 unsaved wounds

Vulkanised version

of these hits its 4+ to wound = 20 wounds

rerolling misses = 30 Wounds

saves of 3+ = 10 unsaved wounds

 

Plasmaguns rapid fire 20 shots, BS suggests half hit = 10 hits

of these hits its 2+ to wound = 8 wounds

AP2 no armour save = 8 unsaved wounds

 

I hope thats right.

 

The real thing here is that a flamer is entirely situational, the target group could be so bunched up that the majority of templates could score hits on most if not all of the target squad. Also with a 5 man unit the flamers become good again alowing more hits than the plasmaguns by far.

[foster]

The best way to use lots of flamers is to put them into some type of Open-topped vehicle. The Orks get flameboyz and a Battle Wagon, the Imperial guard with Chimeras and elite squads. The advantage of having them all in one squad is that you calculate wounds by laying down the flamer template, count how many modals are covered and then multiply the number by each flamer being used.

 

Sadly the only opened-topped vehicle I know is the Land Speeder Storm. You'd proberbly be better off using Land Speeder Squadrons for Heavy Flamer attacks.

[greatcrusade08]

With combi=plasma i was kinda thinking that they would be great vs uber units, if you want lots of flame templates you really cant beat speeder squadrons..

 

Things like Terminators, honour guard (arty armour on IC's too), bikers, obliterators, command squads (no FNP), nob squads, MC's (nids work best as no inv saves)... sure the special ammo goes a long way but combi-weapons are fabulous darling!

 

GC08

[Brother Xeones]

But Sternguard already get vengeance rounds for free. Granted, they aren't S7 nor AP2, but against MEQ, would it really be that much better to spend so many points on guns that you can only shoot once that WILL blow up in your face? And if you aren't going up against MEQ, wouldn't combi-meltas be a better option considering you'd get an extra point of strength and most 2+ save or MCs come in smaller squads where 20 plasma shots would be overkill anyway? At least with meltas you could choose to pop tanks too. I'm actually asking about this as I am a new SM player.

 

Seems to me that flamers are a great option for Sternguard as a combi-weapon (especially with Vulcan) since they are guaranteed to hit, ignore cover, and don't blow up in your face like plasma. They also fulfill a role that the special ammo doesn't in that they can take out greater swaths of lighter infantry in volumes that even rapid-fire bolters can't compete with. Meltas also make sense to me since Sternguard don't really have the ability to hit vehicles without them and a few combi-meltas (with or without Vulcan) makes them a nice flexible unit without spending tons of points for that added flexability. I don't know, to me, there might certainly be a few instances where combi-plasma would be the best option, but in general it seems like the red-headed stepchild of combi-weapons --especially for Sternguard since they already have their special ammo.

[Captain of The Inceptors]

Melta guns could be good for popping tanks but without the ability to rapid fire they are not as good as plasma/flamer.

 

Your also correct that Vengence rounds are good, but being strength 4 its 4+ to wound instead of 2+ as with the plasma, and with either you can expect to lose 1 or 2 marines due to "gets hot". The difference in this roll to wound could be a third more in favour of plasma. if you take the example on my first post but using vengence rounds instead of plasma you can expect to kill 3/4 marines instead of 8, also the plasma can equal shots of the vengence rounds from 24" allowing them at least 2 rounds of shooting before they are charged (assumming a very simple one unit facing off against another).

And AP2 allows the unit to ignore the armour of Terminators and other heavily armoured foes.

 

There are quite a few advantages to plasma guns and I think it could be worth 50 points.

[Vel'Cona]

Another thought if you're trying to get multiple flamer templates to land, is to Drop Pod the SG. This has the nice side effect of letting you start them in on first turn (Drop Pod Assault) and gets past the Rhino's hatch issue by being Open-Topped. You should be able to get them close enough by simply dropping on top of an enemy unit and letting the Inertial Guidance rule put you right on their face. After that, it's just a matter of positioning the deployment. This also prevents the opponent from spamming the Rhino to prevent you from getting close enough to use the flamers.

 

On that note, if you'd like to do a multi-flamer attack, is to use Assault Marines. With a Combi-Flamer, you can throw three templates before initiating a nasty assault, and if you add a Cappy or Chaplain with another Combi-Flamer (and Jump Pack) or better yet, a Libby with Avenger, you can really put the hurt on with a slightly more mobile (and cheaper) unit.