Command Squads

[Pig Of Sparta]

OK so here's the deal, I have enough bits laying around to make either a Command Squad with (apothecary and company banner, no chapter champion as I don't see the point) or a jump pack-less Assault Squad (useless maybe but I kinda like the idea, plus I can't afford to buy jump packs just now), but after reading through my C:SM I'm a little unsure as to whether a Command Squad is worth it. As is my understanding, the only real bonuses that having one will confer are:

 

Feel No Pain

and

Re-rolling failed morale and pinning checks for all units within 12", oh and the Command Squad counts as scoring one extra wound in close combat for the purpose of determining the results of the assault.

 

Now this is where my unsure-ness stems from; All the units in my army have 'Combat Tactics' and 'And They Shall Know No Fear', so they can all voluntarilyfail morale checks, but regroup without penalty as long as they fulfill all required criteria to do so apart from not being under half strength. So does having a Company Banner actually have a point now? Obviously Feel No Pain is potentially useful for keeping the Captain and his Command Squad in the fight, but 115 points seems like a fairly hefty cost just to get a 50/50 chance of not being affected by an unsaved wound, but since I can disengage from an enemy that's kicking my power armoured ass, then regroup and shoot at them with no penalties, why would I ever really want to pass a morale check?

 

So what do you think... How should I use my precious marines? Have I mis-read, or misinterpreted the rules? I know I've asked a lot of questions in a very convoluted way and many of you may think me daft for not knowing the answer, but I really would value some guidance.

 

Brothers I need your help!

 

James

 

James

[Koremu]

The static bonuses available to the Command Squad (Feel No Pain, Company Standard) are more or less exactly what you need to counteract the limited number of bodies in the unit. The CR bonus alone is worth the Banner cost.

 

As for your actual command squad, if you don't especially want to use the unit as a close combat unit, have you considered tooling it up with special weapons? 4 Plasma Guns will kill most things in the game.

 

And for the record, there are about a dozen of these threads down in the Tactica Forum, if you go look.

 

EDIT: and for the question of "when would I not want to fail a morale check?", the answer is; "whenever it is the enemies turn next so you would just get charged again anyway", with a side order of "when the enemy has much higher Initiative than Marines do"

[chapter master 454]

They can become quite a nasty choice, pack them in a raider plus the captain you get a fairly good assault unit. As for the banner, it's helpful for when we know we are kicking ass but the enemy caused enough for us to take a morale test ('careful brothers, we've taken 2 losses for 100, I think we should retreat') so the banner has uses as well as tilting close call CC a win or draw. They aren't popular but they can do quite a bit of damage.

[Hubernator]

I'd agree on that front, since that's what I'm planning to do ^_^ Feel No Pain plus the banner gives your captain a better chance of committing some serious damage to the enemy's troops... so long as he's kitted out alright :P

[sonofwaranddeath]

I like em. Quite a nasty CC unit with Power weapons and Storm Shields. On the other hand they could be a good shooty unit like someone else said with Plasma and FNP!!!! worth it to me ^_^

[Paulochromis]

They like bbqs as well. I have seen a couple of people go cheap (and nasty) with 4 flamers!

What's that smell? ;-)

 

Cheers, Paul.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I've found that fielding them as an assault unit makes them a bit expensive as there is the tendency to go overboard and really kit them out, but I am very much in love with the quad-plasma gun Command Squad, just because of the number of things it can thoroughly (and, more importantly, consistently) roast.

[madscuzzy]

Personally the champion is a pretty good buy, for its points cost... and is always a good focal point to make the unit look awesome.

 

The FNP essentially gives the units a '2+ save' (3+, fail on a 1 and 2. Half of that is 1), but still easily killable by AP3/Instant kill weapons.

 

Quad plasma on bikes can be an interesting unit, as it is hard to wound them and the bikes are relentless.

[pwrserge]

The best loadout I have seen is a banner, 4x lightning claws, 4x plasma guns, 4x storm shields, on bikes. Pricey, but will absolutely OWN most units in the game. Combine them with a biker captain with relic blade, storm shield, artificer armor, digital weapons, and helfire ammo for best effect. For extra pain add a biker chappy with digital weapons and watch the carnage. If your opponent is sufficiently stupid to let this unit get into CC, he deserves what he gets.

[Koremu]

The best loadout I have seen is a banner, 4x lightning claws, 4x plasma guns, 4x storm shields, on bikes. Pricey, but will absolutely OWN most units in the game. Combine them with a biker captain with relic blade, storm shield, artificer armor, digital weapons, and helfire ammo for best effect. For extra pain add a biker chappy with digital weapons and watch the carnage. If your opponent is sufficiently stupid to let this unit get into CC, he deserves what he gets.

That's what, 400 points for the Command Squad alone, plus 200 more for the Captain and 150 for the Chaplain.

 

That qualifies as over-equipped in my book, by a serious margin.

 

Your banner guy alone is worth 98 points for a single wound model, and your unit has zero spare wounds.

[Chucku]

The best loadout I have seen is a banner, 4x lightning claws, 4x plasma guns, 4x storm shields, on bikes. Pricey, but will absolutely OWN most units in the game. Combine them with a biker captain with relic blade, storm shield, artificer armor, digital weapons, and helfire ammo for best effect. For extra pain add a biker chappy with digital weapons and watch the carnage. If your opponent is sufficiently stupid to let this unit get into CC, he deserves what he gets.

That's what, 400 points for the Command Squad alone, plus 200 more for the Captain and 150 for the Chaplain.

 

That qualifies as over-equipped in my book, by a serious margin.

 

Your banner guy alone is worth 98 points for a single wound model, and your unit has zero spare wounds.

 

I usually run with Khan and a Command Squad (Lightning Claws, Storm Shields, 3 x Meltaguns and 1 x Flamer) in a Rhino. This is expensive but a hard-hitting unit that ...

 

- gets 3 x S8/AP1 shots, a flamer template and two bolt pistol shots off and can still assault that turn

- gains Furious Assault so they hit at I5 with S5 Lightning Claws along with Khan's power sword

- if the opponent survives that most have a 3+ Invul save and FNP to fall back on

- can Hit'nRun if needed

 

This can be had for under 500 points, which in the scheme of things only mildly overboard for a specialized assault unit.

[Koremu]

This can be had for under 500 points, which in the scheme of things only mildly overboard for a specialized assault unit.

How dead do you really need the target to be? I can get two Assault Terminaor Squads for that price, and have change for a character.

 

Hell, I can get a Land Raider with Assault Terminators for that price.

[Chucku]

This can be had for under 500 points, which in the scheme of things only mildly overboard for a specialized assault unit.

How dead do you really need the target to be? I can get two Assault Terminaor Squads for that price, and have change for a character.

 

Hell, I can get a Land Raider with Assault Terminators for that price.

 

It's a play-style thing, too, and doesn't take a FOC slot beyond HQ (nice when you want 3 elites).

[Giga]

I had an idea for a command squad setup the other day;

 

1x power fist

3x plasma gun

razorback

= 225 pts total

 

The idea is to make a nice, mobile hard-hitting unit, that can take on MEQ, MCs, 2+ save dudes like terminators, and light vehicles with relative efficiency. The price doesn't seem too big, considering their damage potential.

 

ATM, there are precious few units in C:SM that allow us to take more then 2 plasma guns + most of the times these units are too expensive to risk Gets Hot! With FNP, the plasma guns have a lot lower chance of actually cause a casualty when they overheat.

 

What'd you guys think?

[Koremu]

I had an idea for a command squad setup the other day;

 

1x power fist

3x plasma gun

razorback

= 225 pts total

 

The idea is to make a nice, mobile hard-hitting unit, that can take on MEQ, MCs, 2+ save dudes like terminators, and light vehicles with relative efficiency. The price doesn't seem too big, considering their damage potential.

 

ATM, there are precious few units in C:SM that allow us to take more then 2 plasma guns + most of the times these units are too expensive to risk Gets Hot! With FNP, the plasma guns have a lot lower chance of actually cause a casualty when they overheat.

 

What'd you guys think?

 

I'd run that as Carnifex-hunting unit any day, although I might consider using Heavy Flamers on the Razorback to clear away stray Genestealers.

[ShinyRhino]

I had an idea for a command squad setup the other day;

 

1x power fist

3x plasma gun

razorback

= 225 pts total

 

The idea is to make a nice, mobile hard-hitting unit, that can take on MEQ, MCs, 2+ save dudes like terminators, and light vehicles with relative efficiency. The price doesn't seem too big, considering their damage potential.

 

ATM, there are precious few units in C:SM that allow us to take more then 2 plasma guns + most of the times these units are too expensive to risk Gets Hot! With FNP, the plasma guns have a lot lower chance of actually cause a casualty when they overheat.

 

What'd you guys think?

 

I've been pondering a similar setup to accompany my Cato Sicarius.

I'm thinking of four plasmaguns, apothecary, and Siccy in a las/plas Razorback (cause it's all I have built at the moment). Massive Plasma Death squad, with FNP rerolls on overheats.

However, I'd also thought about dropping down to only three plasmaguns, and buying the Champion. This helps out should the squad end up in CC, as the Champion is a BEAST in that situation. I can't remember if I can but the Champion a plasma pistol, but if so, I probably would, just for consistency in the squad. But in this case, they almost seem more useful in a Drop Pod. Though if I were podding them, I'd go for a generic Captain instead of Sicarius, as he's too expensive an HQ to throw into the wind like that.

[Ryjak]

Nothing in the rules prevents you from equipping the Champion with a plasma-pistol. Try both set-ups out, and find out which works best for you.

 

Just about any shooty command squad will work really well, since they can dish out the pain when they fire, and the Captain can dish it out in HtH. I'm not sure what's a good way to run a HtH Command Squad though. I'm thinking of something along the lines of:

 

Champion

Standard Bearer with Powerfsit

2x Vets with Bolt Pistols and Storm Shields

Apothecary

Captain with Relic Blade and Artificer Armor

 

Hopefully the Captain and Shield Bearers can take the big hits, allowing the three models with powerweapons to kill stuff.

[Jezroth]

Personnelly I always kit out my HQ choices

in the last codex I had a command squad with heroes included that costed around 750pts

costly I know but every game I played with them they earned their pints back and also crerated an area that the enemy avoided

they had jump packs, a plasma pistol, a flamer, the sgt had a power fist melta bombs and a storm sheild, apothecary (let you ignore the first failed save of each turn as long as no instant death and you could take your save), company champ, and standard

because of the advisor rule marines used to have you could have a captain as your hq choice then attach a librarion and chaplin to his squad without them taking up another choice (every thing still costs points though) captain had lightning claws and storm bolter, chappy, power fist, librarion was an epistolary, power of the ancients (+d3 attacks in cc) and vortex of doom (usedb to be any models under template had to pass initiative tst or die) all had jump packs artificer armour and terminator honours (+1 atk)

very costly but very good I'm kinda glad you can't do that now but it was fun at times

 

for example in a game vs daemon hunters my command squad charged a unit of grey knight termi's as well as a unit of grey knights and within two turns of cc had killed all of them while losing 3 models

before I'd charged I'd lost one to ranged fire

 

now I just use 5 HG maxed out with calgar and that works just fine too (they just have to get around a little slower when not in a razor back or drop poding in