Pylons and "almost grenades" in Planetstrike

[Seahawk]

One of the strategems has pylons that project a shield that certain units cannot go through. However, it says: "A unit with grenades of any kind can use them to temporarily diffuse the force field - such units are also unaffected by the pylons."

 

Here are the obvious that would work: frag/krak/blight/photon/EMP/plasma/haywire grenades, meltabombs, and the ork versions of those (pretty much any army can ignore these fields, amusingly)

 

Here are the not-so-obvious: Aura of Acquiescence, Cloud of Flies, and Flesh Hooks. The daemons with these "count as being equipped with assault and defensive grenades," while Tyranids with flesh hooks "count as being equipped with frag grenades." Now, these abilities aren't grenades in the same way that the previous set are definitely grenades, merely clouds or musks or fleshy bits that act in the same way as grenades.

 

Being a daemons player, I'd love to have such abilities negate the pylons, but my instinct is to rule that they don't since they are not technically grenades. What do you all think?

[Maligoare]

Not having the actual rules in front of me, it's a little difficult to form a proper answer. From what you have said, I believe the Daemons and Tyranids would not get the ability to negate pylons. It all hinges on 'count as being equipped' with grenades, which to me says that they get all the bonuses those grenades would give them, without actually carrying grenades at all. As the stratagem rule seems to be very specificly limited to those models which actually have grenades, Daemons and Tyranids wouldn't fulfil the requirements to negate the forcefield.

 

Hope that's of some use...

[Captain Malachi]

Problem is the rule very clearly states they count as having them, which basically means they have them. A tactical marine counts as having frag grenades for the simple reason that he does, 'nids and daemons count as having grenades because the rule says so. The daemon rules include a point about not getting strength bonuses against vehicles, but that doesn't stop them from having the grenades in the first place.

 

Of course pylons are apoc, which as we all know is house rule territory, and this is one of the few cases where RAI is pretty clear. So just houserule it that they don't count for this particular purpose if you want to. Kind of annoying as I'm fairly sure the pylons were made to stop daemons, but what are ya gonna do about bad rules writing, right?

[Seahawk]

No, these pylons are planetstrike, ie regular games of 40k and not the Necron version. They cannot be subject to house rule so easily. The old FW rules for them worked so much easier and better.

[Captain Malachi]

Hmm, I really need to get that book. Oh well either way RAW-wise I still say they have grenades.

[OwlandMoonGuy]

There’s not much of a precedence for this one. When does, “counts-as” not “count-as?”

 

Since this strat is not race specific, it remains open to interpretation fluff wise. So how exactly are the grenades diffusing the force field? Could a swarm of warp spawn files do the job just as well as a photon grenade? Who can say? The rules are mute on the precise physics involved.

 

Many strats don’t fit well from a fluff perspective. How do Tau and Nids pitch Vortex Grenades in Apoc? Who knows?

 

In all such cases, we can really only rely on the definitions present in the rules. In which case, “counts-as” grenades are just grenades for all game purposes. I wouldn’t mince words in this or any case.

 

-OMG

[Cypher 102]

Like almost all rules issues fluff can be used to explain the rule either way. Warp energy is anathema to Necrons and their gods and would probably disrupt their field or the Necron technology is specially designed to be proof against the warp. I'm sure if I think hard enough I can make up a fluff reason why flesh hoods would work.

 

I have yet so see the rules on the Necron field itself. However, the previously mentioned items/abilities count as grenades so I imagine they would work as well as grenades in this case.

[Seahawk]

Again, it's NOT Necrons and NOT Apocalypse. This is a Planetstrike strategem I'm talking about that anybody can use.

 

I guess without a precedent and no technical differentiation between those abilities and grenades, we'll just have to roll with them ignoring the pylons. Probably most useless strategem ever...lol. That's GW I guess...

[Grey Mage]

If you "count as" being equiped with it then Im sad to say you... count-as being equiped with them.

 

Just like a Combi-Melta "counts as" a meltagun for the purposes of Vulkan Hestan. Etc etc etc.

[jeffersonian000]

Just to throw a spanner into the works, but it seems that Frag Launchers on LRC's and LRR's will allow their passengers to bypass these pylons due to Frag Launchers acting a Frag Grenades when a disembarking unit assaults. The question is, will this allow a LRC, LRR, and/or Ironclad Dread to bypass pylons on their own?

 

SJ

[Grey Mage]

Id say yes to the Ironclad, no to the LRC+LRR as when its moving through its not assaulting after disembarking from itself now is it?

[Seahawk]

A simple solution to that, already written in to the rules: the pylons' energy fields only affect non-vehicle units. Jump infantry, jetbikes, vehicles, and units with any grenades are unaffected.

 

Buuuut if it mattered, the LRR and LRC would not be able to pass through; they do not have the grenades, though the infantry disembarking could go through the fields, though only in the assault phase as they don't count as having them until then. The Ironclad assault launchers work exactly the same as Aura and Cloud above, so he would be able to go through just fine by himself.