Shaggaroth Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 First, I have to apologize a bit... The text presented lower is a copy/paste from an older post of mine... The reason why I'm doing this, and not necromancing the old one is because I think I did wrong with the previous post by putting too much hints and wishful thinking that made people become less objective. Anyways, please percieve it as an experiment in collective opinion, and, the more people answer it, the more objective the outcome. The general purpose of this is to ask for help choosing legion without showing any prejudice or preference from my side. Thanks aforehead to everyone answering! Here we have a legion X commander y. He is a very proud being, egomaniacal, overambitious. His vision of Chaos is as the ultimate source of raw power, useable for reaching his own goals. His motto, personal warcry and theme of army - Man That Rules Over Daemon. Maybe an unattainable goal, but even Chaos lords dream.... The gods, in his view, are sentient incarnations of human psyche, made omnipotent by masses of believers, and are a force to be used, although carefully. His view of a pact with god is - it's a business deal, I sacrifice you a planet, you give me more power... He has no complaints about physical mutations if they make them stronger in any way, he even welcomes them, believing that a man can mutate beyond recognition and still be himself -it's just that his will rules over the body, not othervise, that defines acceptable. Although a bit disdainful of Cult troops, because he believes that focusing on a single aspect of your psyche and possibilities is far to limiting and short-sighted, he nevertheless admits their usefulness in battle and allows his followers to take path of single god - it is their choice and as long as they are winning battles for him... So his army contains some Cult followers, and also different war machines - every tool is good if effective. And if tools fail, you gotta get up and show those underlings how it is done properly,also to keep them impressed, and taste of battle never gets stale... His own perspective on the great picture - someone, most preferably, you guessed, himself, returing to Imperium, crushing the followers of the Corpse God and becoming the Chaos Emperor - the one commanding both warp powers and mankind, forging humankind into The Strongest Rule type of slave-using society... And then will come a new Golden Age, where Chaos-Man (the next step in human evolution, in his view) crushes all that stands against him and enslaves others for eternity. It's not that he is SHURE he will be the one, quite possible, not, but, heck, he is still alive and time is irrelevant as long as the plan advances. Now please help me find the x (legion of his origin) :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Alpha Legion. I was torn between Night Lords, Alpha Legion and iron Warriors, but he does not seem to have the Iron Warrior mindset, the way he welcomes the mutations, and the Night Lords are not usually concerned with bringing a new rule to the Imperium. His attitude that every tool can be usefull fits the Alpha Legion doctrine, who prefer to strike via all imaginable venues when they attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 The only legion you are discribing is WB's (except for the cult troops part) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I had dismissed the Word Bearers very early on because of the Characters lack of devotion to the chaos deities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyresh Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 i was torn between AL IW and WB... even made a unit of Iw but settled for WB a while ago... could have settled earlier but... my painting skills with red colours were severely lacking and i didint want an army that with my painting skills at the time would look like crap:P Now i paint slightly passable Word bearers, may post some pics if you are itnerested later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I agree with Chillin that Word Bearers would be closest. The gods, in his view, are sentient incarnations of human psyche, made omnipotent by masses of believers, and are a force to be used, although carefully. His view of a pact with god is - it's a business deal, I sacrifice you a planet, you give me more power... This part here is one possible way of viewing Chaos Undivided. He understands that the Chaos gods are just part (a big powerful part) of the greater force that is Chaos. His devotion therefore is not directed at the individual gods but Chaos as a whole. His own perspective on the great picture - someone, most preferably, you guessed, himself, returing to Imperium, crushing the followers of the Corpse God and becoming the Chaos Emperor - the one commanding both warp powers and mankind, forging humankind into The Strongest Rule type of slave-using society... And then will come a new Golden Age, where Chaos-Man (the next step in human evolution, in his view) crushes all that stands against him and enslaves others for eternity. It's not that he is SHURE he will be the one, quite possible, not, but, heck, he is still alive and time is irrelevant as long as the plan advances. This is very Word Bearerish. They understand that the only power that is strong enough to unite and save humanity is faith in Chaos and it is there intention to bring that faith to the Imperium by any means necessary. In many ways its a reflection of what the Imperium was doing prior to the Horus Heresy with their great crusades. Cult troops are a little bit of a problem, as your normal Word Bearer would not approve of such single-minded devotion. You could maybe justify it by saying he's more of a Radical (similar to how Radical Inquistitors use Daemonhosts) Dark Apostle and his actions are only being tolerated by the Dark Apostle Council because he's is still useful and gets results, but he's being watched very carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 THinking about it some more, I think Black Legion would fit even better than Alpha Legion. The attitude that he wants to controll chaos and use it for his own means is very similar to what Horus did and what abaddon is doing now. He is aware of the power chaos represents and seeks domination by employing that power. That is very Black Legion. His disdain for cults is a personal choice, as those are more mindless followers, something he is not (or so he thinks). I still maintain that the Word Bearers are the worst choice of the undivided Legions, due to the lack of any devotion to the gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I had dismissed the Word Bearers very early on because of the Characters lack of devotion to the chaos deities. What are you talking about ?? :) WB are THE most fanatic chaos worshipers of them all, zealots. If you don't want to use them b/c you don't like the painst scheme or for whatever reason, that's fine. But to say the zealots of chaos lack devototion to the chaos gods doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 What are you talking about ?? blink.gif WB are THE most fanatic chaos worshipers of them all, zealots. His Character lacks devotion. He sees the Chaos powers as a force that can be used for your own goals, the agreements between him and the gods are "buisenes contracts" for him, and he wants men to dominate over daemons. So the Word Bearers were the first undivided Legion I dismissed for this character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 THinking about it some more, I think Black Legion would fit even better . The attitude that he wants to controll chaos and use it for his own means is very similar to what Horus did and what abaddon is doing now. He is aware of the power chaos represents and seeks domination by employing that power. That is very Black Legion. His disdain for cults is a personal choice, as those are more mindless followers, something he is not (or so he thinks). Damn Legatus, very nice understanding of BL (you obviously didn't get that from the C:csm 4.0 dex). Nice to see someone else understands that black legion does not = "I can have slanny lash prince leading brzrkrs and call it fluffy". That it's a legion that is rich in history and fluff. Can't say the same for your understanding of WB's :) , you sure your not getting them mixed up with NL's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 His Character lacks devotion. He sees the Chaos powers as a force that can be used for your own goals, the agreements between him and the gods are "buisenes contracts" for him, My bad, It was my lack of understanding of his character not you lack of understanding of WB's. I missed that little bit about his character. The WB's do seek dominion over daemons though and see themselves as higher/more important to chaos then any daemon. WB's use daemons as others use bullets, as expendable weopons. That is from C:csm's 3.5 and I think the old WB's IA aas well. But yea, viewing packs w/ daemons/gods as business contracts is vey BL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Well, yeah, minor daemons are expendable critters. But if that is his character's attitude towards all dameonkind, I am not sure about the more powerfull avatars of the deities, and if the Word Bearers would not revere them as incarnations of their gods, instead of one more, albeit much more poweful, daemon they can send into battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDoom Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Sounds Black Legion to me. The character's willingness to use Chaos for his own desires and to increase his own power, in addition to his use of all the cult troops to slaughter his enemies is what cinches it for me. We need a good Black Legion book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 We need a good Black Legion book... Is the BL the only one of the undivided legions that doesn't have a book ??? :lol: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDoom Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 We need a good Black Legion book... Is the BL the only one of the undivided legions that doesn't have a book ??? :tu: :D Yeah. The first three Horus Heresy books could kinda count, but I want something from the present 40k time line. Maybe I should start putting something together. If you want something done right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novak Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I have to agree with those that say Black Legion. It is a fine line between the Black Legion and the Word Bearers. The Black Legion manipulates Chaos in it's entirety for it's own purposes. They don't believe that men are below the Gods, that they are just as "mortal" in a sense as the Marines are. The reason I say it isn't the Word Bearers is because the members of the Chapter have huge masses where they pray to the Chaos Undivided. They don't necessarily respect the smaller daemons, but they do value mutation within the Chapter. The main difference, and the reason I say it isn't the Word Bearers, is because they worship the Gods themselves, and pray to them for guidance and such. They are the most zealous of all the Traitor Legions, and it isn't really broken into smaller war bands. When I think of cults, I think of small war bands of World Eaters joining up with someone like the Black Legion. The Word Bearers are their own Legion, and I don't think they would really approve of such a specialized form of worship. I think they thank all the Gods for their mutations and gifts, not Khorne for a close combat mutation, or Tzeentch for the ability of a psyker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cirrius Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I say forget the legions. They're to high and mighty. I prefer the bands of renegades and pirates like the red corsairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I say forget the legions. They're to high and mighty. I prefer the bands of renegades and pirates like the red corsairs. The beauty of playing Chaos is that there's no need to strictly adhere to the rules, as it is truly 'chaotic' to not be following every single rule. Thus, my army is BL, but many of their marines are actually clones of older marines, or marines killed on the field of battle. They're not reliant on the Black Legion for orders or help, as they were set up and are hunted by the Black Legion now. However, they retain their BL armour and continue to fight for Chaos and the death of the false emperor. Perhaps I'll have to get back to my writing sometime. That would give ya'll some BL fiction to read :) Cheers, Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 man over daemon sounds like Alpha Legion or maybe Night Lords. I couldn't think of much else though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooshSahaal Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 you had me thinking WB.. but it's very black legion too. you should just make up your own renegade fellers perhaps branching off the WB, thinking that being narrow minded as worshipping thechaos gods as deities is as bad as worshipping the emperor and going off to exploit chaos to his own ends. this way you can explain his change in battle tactics and such, and his self absorbed attitude. also explains why he;s so open-minded, first rebelling against the emperor, now against his own men just to make things right with his own ambitions. -doosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I say forget the legions. They're to high and mighty. I prefer the bands of renegades and pirates like the red corsairs. Who are not nearly as cool. Black Legion: Stop bothering me Huron, go back to raiding shipping lanes, I have systems to annhilate. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggaroth Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 A slight update, to stir things up:) Most people view Black Legion as the way to go for me... The only beef with them I have is (besides Abe being a complete dork) that If I play BL, then there would be NO other chaos army in my tight gaming circle... I was the light of change there as the only Chaos player with Emperor's Children, but I'm a bit tired of them... I would like to differ a bit, as otherwise there will be no originality left at the Chaos side of our group. The two legions I considered besides BL were, 1) as most have pointed out - Word Bearers... But I agree to other posters, they are too fervently religious... The 2) option would be Night Lords. As for them not caring about leadership, I really liked the original Night Haunter's rule over his planet, and I do believe some NL might be trying to aspire to his level of rule... The bad part is, Night Lords are kinda anti-mutation force... Though maybe a splinter warband could be embracing Chaos more as the means to dominate, in example of the Axe Master Krieg Acerbus? He didn't seem to be very against being a DP.... Although that is Black Library fluff and as such not neccesarily canon. As you see, a lots of pondering with both pro and contra here. Red Cirsairs, while nice, I guess, are more like non-Emperor marines with lesser % of mutants and Chaotic gifts... And I want my force to be heavily mutant themed and not too zealous at the same time. Anybody else has any suggestion? This stuff is boiling in my head for months, and it still seems an unsolvable dilemma. Thanks for your answers, BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDoom Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 If you're not interested in the Black Legion then I'd say Night Lords. I kinda like the whole "more Batman than Batman" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggaroth Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Yes, but wouldn't the heavily mutated troops I envision be against Night Lords fluff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDoom Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Yes, but wouldn't the heavily mutated troops I envision be against Night Lords fluff? If the Possessed are Night Lords then yes, but if the the Possessed are Space Marines captured from Loyalists Chapter or other Legions and forcebly Possessed to act as expendable "hey look at me" troops, then I don't think so. Just paint the Possessed different colors (not Black Legion B) ) to make them stand out. Maybe some kind of convertion to show the Daemons are more in control then the Space Marines. I'm not sure what but if I think of something I'll post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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