Drop pod armies

[Tossy]

In a tournament can/do drop pod armies do well?

 

Are they a viable choice for a balanced army? Or are rhino/pred the best way to go to be competitive

 

The question is across all point levels from 1000-2500

 

for the sake of this post... full Deep Strike is acceptable and in the spirit

[Kadaeux]

Pure Drop has served me well enough. Well actually I have Land Speeder Typhoons 2x (Melta) and a Sniper Scout Squad with (soon) a Land Speeder Storm

 

So while not pure Drop Pod it IS pure Deep Strike.

[Miscellaneous Marine]

It can work well. Scout bikes to infiltrate a beacon, scouts to flank objectives. my recomendations

 

1. Go big or go home. Min 3-4 pods need to hit turn 1.

2. flame, flame, flame, melt, melt, melt. You need melta for anti armour and plenty of flamers for orks and nids.

3. Librarian with avenger, drop pod, turn 1 is scary as hell. mix stern guard with a heavy flamer in for real fun.

 

Also check out http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...027&start=2

 

GW is telling you to do this. So yes it is fluffy and in the spirit of the game.

[Grey Mage]

Destructive units are good, tough units are even better... tough destructive units are the best.

 

Examples? Ironclad Dreadnaughts, Wolf Gaurd in TDA, Sterngaurd, Vanguard with Storm Shields, Venerable Dreadnaughts.

 

For 1500pts I run

 

-HQ+Retinue in DP

-Vendread in DP

-Ironclad in DP

-2x Troops Squads in DPs, with well rounded upgrades, plasma heavy.

-Scout Squad

-Landspeeder.

 

In a non-podding list Id have tanks for heavy support and an extra troops choice. However in a DP force I find I have more transports than I normally go for- especially since I feel that a DP force that isnt bringing Dreads is probly shooting itself in the foot a wee bit- they are very tough, and have a very adaptable shooting ability; many units in the game are incapable of harming them in CC, and they can be adapted to hunt the target of your choice. Alas only four per army... and Ill only take three personally at the high end.

 

Three things I keep in mind when making a DP list-

 

1) Do I want my troops in the starting drop by default? Ie are my troops going to be a normal part of my initial game plan... will they serve a purpose there. Most of the time the answer is no, but one should still build them with that ability in mind. But this also determines how many toughs and killies I have to drop in later- if I put troops in my first wave I have more points for late game "Aces"... but its less likely Ill have the scoring units Ill need.

 

2) Do I have a mobile reserve? DPs, especially on a small or medium table are really all the transporation you should need. But on the other hand it never hurts to be able to get some of your assets moving reliably- I rely on Landspeeders as a fluffy and effective unit to cover this angle.

 

3) Points efficiency- how trim can I make this squad and still have the power or the toughness to do what I need it to do? This is always a consideration, not just with DP lists... but its even more critical here. Many people Ive seen make lists for DPs over-emphasize the destructive power of their units and inflate their points costs to high levels in a misguided attempt to obliterate whatever unit they are aimed at- wich makes them points sinks. You can *in most cases* only destroy one unit the turn you drop, so the more units you have the more options you have for killing the enemy- better to have two squads who have the potential to destroy most things than one squad who will be certain of it- after the first squad tries you can always use the second if you need to, or use it elsewhere if you dont.

[Jezroth]

I think that dropping armies are awesome I used one and still do from time to time (stopped as much because the people I play against started to hate it cause they couldn't do much to counter it, well thats what they said any way I did point things out that they could do but they refused the advice)

any way the 3 best things about them is

 

1. you pick which units are going attack which enemy so they have uber tank killers in c.c (eg. melta bomb armed unit or equivelant) you can drop your dread away from them and drop infantry at them to tie them up while your dread does its thing I use my dread as a 'go there kill that' unit and drop right near something I want to die and it usually does (assualt cannon hvy flamer, extra armour)

 

2. easy for taking objectives i.e drop devs into an objective and have them hold, sure they can't fire in that turn but make sure you drop them in as one of the starting units

 

3.its incredibly flexible, vs Tau drop close and charge asap, vs orks get defensive positions and systemattically take down one unit at a time

 

P.S I didn't lose a game using this tactic, got a couple of draws and a game I nearly lost (draw by 3 points) but no losses

 

any questions?

[Legacy40k]

They can be good.. except when your opponent chooses to go second and voluntarily keeps their whole army in reserve.

 

Turn one you deep strike in... and sit there...turn 2.. you sit there...turn 2 they come on and shoot/charge you. Either you're close to them because you decided to go to the objectives... or drop podded back in your own deployment zone and forfeit your armies maneuverability.

[Coyote]

They can be good.. except when your opponent chooses to go second and voluntarily keeps their whole army in reserve.

 

Turn one you deep strike in... and sit there...turn 2.. you sit there...turn 2 they come on and shoot/charge you. Either you're close to them because you decided to go to the objectives... or drop podded back in your own deployment zone and forfeit your armies maneuverability.

LMAO! If you play DPs that way, you deserve to lose. Little hint: When someone tries to pull that stunt on me, I win. They're playing my game now. I simply DON'T deploy in DPs, or I choose not to utilize the DP Deployment rule and Deep Strike as normal. Which to use is driven by the scenario and the board. The DPs that aren't used for the deployment come in as terrain.

 

I win, usually. Because I'm in control of the situation on the ground. They are not.

 

As for tournaments... *shrugs* I'm not to that level. Yet. But others are. And they win.

 

(BTW - I used to play Wood Elves in WHFB. Being able to manipulate the terrain in the midst of the game is incredible. Same principles apply.)

[Bannus]

Turn one you deep strike in... and sit there...turn 2.. you sit there...turn 2 they come on and shoot/charge you. Either you're close to them because you decided to go to the objectives... or drop podded back in your own deployment zone and forfeit your armies maneuverability.

This is no gurantee for your opponent either - as his army will come on peicemeal as well. You can capitalize on that as well.

[Grey Mage]

They can be good.. except when your opponent chooses to go second and voluntarily keeps their whole army in reserve.

 

Turn one you deep strike in... and sit there...turn 2.. you sit there...turn 2 they come on and shoot/charge you. Either you're close to them because you decided to go to the objectives... or drop podded back in your own deployment zone and forfeit your armies maneuverability.

LMAO! If you play DPs that way, you deserve to lose. Little hint: When someone tries to pull that stunt on me, I win. They're playing my game now. I simply DON'T deploy in DPs, or I choose not to utilize the DP Deployment rule and Deep Strike as normal. Which to use is driven by the scenario and the board. The DPs that aren't used for the deployment come in as terrain.

 

I win, usually. Because I'm in control of the situation on the ground. They are not.

 

As for tournaments... *shrugs* I'm not to that level. Yet. But others are. And they win.

 

(BTW - I used to play Wood Elves in WHFB. Being able to manipulate the terrain in the midst of the game is incredible. Same principles apply.)

Yeah... you can always drop defensively and set up a strongpoint... now the enemy must come to you, and your reserves can tackle their reserves- the thing is you know youve got atleast half your army... they may never get more than one or two units in three game turns.

[xxvaderxx]

I used it with mixed results.

 

I find that they work wonders against shoty and hybrid (snurfs for instance) armies, but you do horribly against assault and horde armies.

[Grey Mage]

Have you tried dropping farther back and unloading with your ranged weapons? A drop pod at 24" is just as effective as a rhino, and tougher. It also provides cover, like a rhino would.

 

So just drop in some bolter boys and a few dreadnaughts and take your enemy as they try to rush you. Dont forget your stormbolters, and drop your heavy hitting units on the flanks or after the stragglers/heavy support.

[fudal78]

I'm new to 5th edition (the last time I played a game was using Rogue Trader Rules back in the late 80s) and I really like the idea of a heavily (or completely) drop pod army - it seems to fit with the whole feel of marines imo. I'm glad to hear that the concept is competitive and I'm looking forward to completing my 5 drop pod dreadnought army.

 

Just a quick query, do you have to Drop Pod assault or is it just an option if you want to land troops in the first turn?

[Grey Mage]

*Blink* Um... well DP assault allows you to drop in half the units that have DPs in the first turn.... so you do get troops in the first turn if you want them.

 

However you dont have to put your boys in DPs at all... you can just set up as normal, and then the DPs are just little meteors with stormbolters attached. You choose before the battle starts how you deploy your army.

 

Its in the rule DP Assault in the C:SM.

[Brother Crassus]

LMAO! If you play DPs that way, you deserve to lose. Little hint: When someone tries to pull that stunt on me, I win. They're playing my game now. I simply DON'T deploy in DPs, or I choose not to utilize the DP Deployment rule and Deep Strike as normal. Which to use is driven by the scenario and the board. The DPs that aren't used for the deployment come in as terrain.

 

You have to drop pod assault.. You dont get the option to use reserves. Half of your pods MUST come in on turn 1.

 

Quote Marine Codex p 69: At the beginning of your first turn, you must choose half of your Drop Pods (rounding up) to make a "Drop Pod Assault"

 

 

Now you can land your pods empty and deploy your squad as normal during deployment, or DPA. You can't opt to not use Drop Pod assault to come in on later turns through normal reserve rolls.

[Grey Mage]

Hmm... thats true enough, I hadnt caught that when I skimmed through his post...

 

Im wondering where he got the idea that it was optional?

[Coyote]

Wow. Thx, Brother Crassus. I stand corrected. How did I come by that thought? 'Cuz I'd played it incorrectly. Although, it doesn't matter much since I've only done that trick once. *shrugs* Live, post, & learn. However, the options remain to either castle, or deploy normally and drop empties. Both of which have worked for me.

[Kephri]

Additionally when you set up reserves I thought you had to declare what is in transports, what isn't and how your reserve units will arrive. I didn't think you can change your mind after you set up. (Could be wrong. No book at work)

[Coyote]

Additionally when you set up reserves I thought you had to declare what is in transports, what isn't and how your reserve units will arrive. I didn't think you can change your mind after you set up. (Could be wrong. No book at work)

You do. And this is precisely what I do. Allow me to explain:

Assume that I'm running one of my more common lists that includes 2x Dreads, 2x Tac Squads, 1x TFC, all with Drop Pods. During initial Deployment, I place the TFC on the board. I then declare which Dreads and which Tac Squads are in which pods (as I sometimes match Deathwind Launchers or Beacons to specific units) and set these up off the board in my Reserves area along with the empty Drop Pod for the TFC.

 

At the beginning of my first turn, I choose any 3 of the 5 pods and bring them into play via Drop Pod Deployment, along their pre-assigned unit. Where I'd made a mistake in the past was thinking that all 5 of the pods could remain in Reserves and be rolled for normally. There was no confusion as to the need to assign Pods to units pre-game and keep those assignments once they entered play.

For the assistance of other players, keep in mind that infantry units assigned to a Drop Pod are all-or-nothing when it comes to Combat Squads. Meaning, you can keep a squad out of the pod, deploy normally, and choose whether or not to Combat Squad. Or, you can deploy via the pod and make your choice at the time that they disembark. But, unlike a Rhino or Razorback, you cannot split into Combat Squads in place 1 in the pod, while the other goes into play or into Reserves separately. (Props to one of the other posters for enlightening me to this trick.)

[Grey Mage]

Another option when it comes to deployment is that if your opponent is deploying first you will know ahead of time if they are going to be in reserve or not... and can then deploy or drop accordingly- in fact I almost always prefer to go second in a DP army.

[Kephri]

You do. And this is precisely what I do.

 

That's cool. I am saying that if a marine player deploys first, he assigns all his reserves/embarking/deep strike etc. Then if the opponent sets up and holds everything in reserve, the marine player must still abide by the deployment choices. At this point the marine certainly can choose which pods arrive on turn 1, leaving the remaining as regular reserves. But he cannot then choose to send in empty pods (unless he decided during setup/reserves to keep them empty).

[Grey Mage]

And Kephri, your absolutely right... but thats not nearly as tactially limiting as you make it sound- just because theyre still coming down in the pod doesnt mean theres some magic magnet between the pod and enemy forces- you just deploy the pod next to where youd like the unit, or blocking the LOS you need it to, and deploy the unit out.

 

You dont have to scream BANSAI! every time you put a pod on the table... tactics are important here, just like anywhere else.

[Pyriel]

I find that they work wonders against shoty and hybrid (snurfs for instance) armies, but you do horribly against assault and horde armies.

+1

 

A heavy mechanized assault army like mounted khorne is almost impossible to beat with an all DP army.

You drop close and take out the occasional vehicle and the rest of his army will steamroll your first squads, the second turn ones cant even shoot as they drop due to your units being tied up in melee.

 

You drop further from their lines and your bolters are useless (against vehicles) as are your heavy weapons since they cant shoot and the result is they drive towards you, unload and assault.

 

Its really a loose situation and leaving the pods while starting deployed on the table just makes you fight with so many less points (your paid pods are wasted).

 

 

 

The other nightmare scenario is when you have to pod first and the opponent keeps all his units in reserve.

Sure he can come in pincemeal but he chooses exactly where to come in. If he is a mobile melee army then you are still going to be fried.

having to pod before a daemon army is a nightmare.

In those have-to-pod-first scenarios the deathwind launcher is the real life saver.

[Grey Mage]

Except the deathwind cant fire on the turn it lands...

 

And as for Rhinos... are you telling me you make DP armies without a single landspeeder in them? Or a ranged dreadnaught?

 

Not to mention on most boards its going to take them several turns to get to you... assault on about turn 3 unless your doing a dawn of war deployment- and then you only have to worry about one mounted squad and an HQ- wich shouldnt be a humongous threat except in the smallest of games.

[Coyote]

Don't forget, folks. Drop Pods make for a ready-made Castle in some games. Yes, this means that you're largely static in comparison to a Mech list. But if you're forced to play defensively, that's ok because either list will have to camp objectives. The trick is to Drop tightly in Turn 1 and then Run to spread the infantry out and take advantage of cover. I've dropped one unit inches off an objective, hussled the unit into cover, and used the Drop Pod that's camping the objective to force them to come to me.

 

Drop Pod armies are not for everyone. And they should not be one-trick ponies that count on getting in someone's grill on Turn 1. The point of a DP army, besides being just plain kool, is that they break the rules of deployment in your favor. They give you a Planetstrike-like beginning to the game, without giving your opponent some broke-a$$ bastions to hide in. This forces you to think outside the box. And they're just plain fun. :)

[Kephri]

And Kephri, your absolutely right... but thats not nearly as tactially limiting as you make it sound-

 

I wasn't trying to come down against podding armies. I just wanted to make sure things were clear. The fact that marines get to choose which pods come down is a huge benefit. It is easy to work around / react to what your opponent chooses to do, but you still have to do it "by the book".

 

You dont have to scream BANSAI! every time you put a pod on the table...

 

I thought everyone used this House Rule. :tu: