Scouts Vs Orks

[Brandon011383]

Hello all,

 

I am new to the Warhammer world(2nd post here) and had a quick tactical Quesetion....this seemed like the correct forum to post in for this so forgive me(and redirect me) if I am wrong. A buddy and I usally play against each other every weekend, he is playing Orks and I am Space Marines.

 

My question today is how effective is a scout squad against 20 ork boys lead by an Ork Nob with a boss pole and a power klaw? I am thinking about fielding a scout squad including Sergeant Telion so I can pick off the Nob before the horde gets to me......would it be worth the 125 points to do so or is there a better tactic that I am not thinking of that will do the trick?

 

Thank you in advance for all helping comments. :wacko:

[waaanial00]

You will want to have a look here for all your scout based needs.

 

They are a bunch of items that one of the board members has put together with a little help from the community. If you cant find your answers in these hallowed pages, I am sure the man who wrote them will be popping along soon enough. GreatCrusade08 is his forum name.

 

Whilst you are reeling from that amount of info on Scouts here are a few little ideas to get you started:

 

1) Always deny Orks the charge by charging them

2) Shotguns are great because Orks generally get only a 6+ save

3) Flamers, combi flamers and Heavy Flamers are your friends

4) Mobile scouts are good scouts

5) Dont forget that because you can infiltrate it means you can chose to go first and not place anything down until your infiltration deployment

 

Wan

[ShinyRhino]

I'm guessing you mean a Scout Sniper squad with Telion?

The one thing Scouts suffer from is their poor Ballistic Skill. You'll get four sniper shots, and two shots from Telion's Stalker Boltgun in a given round (assuming you haven't moved).

The scouts need 4s to hit, and then 4s to wound. Telion needs 2s to hit, and then 4s to wound (against those Orks anyways, the Stalker is only S4!). With only six shots, you're not puttng much of a dent in those 20 Boyz. Sure, if Telion hits, and then wounds, he can allocate one of the wounds to the Nob. Since the Stalker is AP5, the Nob won't get its 6+ armor save. But it has two wounds. You'll need two full turns of successful Telion allocated wounds to take out just the Nob.

The sniper rifles won't cause Pinning, because you'll never do enough damage to them all by their lonesome to get them down to 11 Boyz (the point at which they're no longer Fearless). Orks will also always get their 6+ save against the hits, since sniper rifles are AP -.

If you really want to make sniper scouts useful, max out the squad at 10, take Telion, and either a heavy bolter, or a missile launcher. With low BS, you need all the shots going downrange that you can get, especially against Orks.

[greatcrusade08]

In a 40k game its not just a matter of unit X against unit Y... of course you know this, but with scouts unless like me you run a whole army of them, then your more than likely just taking a unit of snipers for support so your going to have other units aswell.

 

In this position combining different units can be very effective.. if you read the link Wan kindly gave, you will see i outlined the Telion and dread tactic for killing ork hordes... im not saying go out and buy a dread but the same principle can be applied to other units which ill cover in a bit.

 

Now as has been already mentioned Orks on the charge are mean... with furious charge they have 4 attacks each with S4 and I4 (i think), if you charge them they only have 3 attacks each S3 and I3...

What this means is all space marines (including scouts) will strike first with I4 and if any orks are still left they will need 5's to wound SM's due to lowly S3!

 

Using Telion to take out Nobs is a brilliant move, you get rid of the boss pole and power claw, BUT they dont take pinning tests until they are <11 models, also as mentioned they have 2 wounds. Usually though Telion is going to get a wound on the unit with 2 shots and with 6+ save on the NOB you shouldnt have any problems killing him.

 

What id do is either take a big ten man squad and try to whittle them down and pin them or take your smaller squad just to get Telion on the board and combine his sniping ability with a hard hitting CC unit.

what id recommend is an assault unit with dual flamers, ten of these will dole out 30+ attacks which strike first, without the Nobs claw they should win combat easily and run the orks down, also with jump packs they have greater movement which ensures youll be the one doing the charging.. Bikes are also very good, and as they are T5 the orks will need 6's to wound them (scout bikes too).

I personally swear by scout assault squads (ccw's) with a combi-flamer and fist on the sarge, you get ten guys for 175 points and they have the same number of attacks as an assault squad and should be able to kill off an ork squad sans Nob!

 

Remember you can never kill enough orks with shooting, so you either have to pin them or charge them down!

 

GC08

[Forgefather Vulkan]

I have a friend that has a 1,500 point Ork army that includes loads of boyz running around being generally annoying and I played him with my salamanders and I used my newly bought sniper scouts.

 

Turns out that they're really good at stopping Orks in their tracks as the rifles are pinning which slows the unit down as Ork Ld is naff which is good if you have terms waiting to smash things!

 

So my advice is take a nice big sniper squad with some terms!

[Koremu]

Most Boyz mobs are immune to Pinning due to Mob Rule.

[Jezroth]

Well for one don't snipers still hit on a +2 and wound on a +4 any more

also In my experiance scouts can handle themselves against orcs

I had a unit of 6 scouts (one missile launcher the rest were snipers) after losing the missile launcher scout and one other to mass fire by kommandos and a unit of 20 boyz with nob with a uge' choppa and a wierd boy then they charged me and I still had 1 scout left after the shooting and close combat and I'd managed to cause 7 casualties.

 

I then charged in a unit of (8) tactical marines to help em out which finished the orcs off in the next round by killing enough of them to make then run away

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that as long as you've got a supporting unit for your scouts they should be ok

 

still its better to run away with them and charge with your supporting unit then leave your scouts to fend off the orcs, don't rely on scouts alone

 

oh and p.s orcs only have 2 attacks each if they don't charge and 3 each if they charge

[waaanial00]

Well for one don't snipers still hit on a +2 and wound on a +4 any more

 

First off no. In the rule book they are definitely hitting using BS in 5th Edition, they are rending but with the small number (5) of snipers I cn field it doesnt amount to much.

 

still its better to run away with them and charge with your supporting unit then leave your scouts to fend off the orcs, don't rely on scouts alone

 

Not always. As GC08 is fond of pointing out, scouts are cheap and expendable. If you will win nothing by staying put and little by charging in with support units then leave them alone. As an Ork player as well I can tell you that nothing pleases me more than a MEQ player who descends to my level of assault after assault, its where the Ork shines. You should never rely on being able to combat tactic away either, ATSKNF doesnt let you auto rally if you have an enemy within 6" and you can still be caught in a sweeping advance plus you have to have lost the combat in the first place.

 

 

oh and p.s orcs only have 2 attacks each if they don't charge and 3 each if they charge

 

Depends what they are armed with ;) On the whole they only have 2 each but at least 50% of the time you are likely to charge an Ork with Tacticals and find that they have more attacks per model than you anyway.

 

If you really want to take sniper scouts then my advice is to shoot the more elite Ork units. Lootas, Nobs, Mega Nobs, Bikes, Biker Nobs, Deff Koptas etc. You are just as likely to inflict wounds (though some of these choices have better/multiple saves) but you are more likely to force leadership checks against smaller units which are not 10+ Orks.

 

Once had my 7 Nobs stay put for 4 whole turns because they were unlucky with leadership checks. Turn 1 their Battlewagon exploded thus entangling them, turn 2 they lost a nob to a scout sniper, turn 3 the same, turn 4 lost one to a whirlwind and still couldnt pass my check even with a reroll! That was over 500 points of Ork just sitting their all game.

 

Wan

[greatcrusade08]

Not always. As GC08 is fond of pointing out, scouts are cheap and expendable.

 

a 5 man scout unit makes a nice speedbump and you may get the odd kill before being wiped out, but at least the orky player isnt charging your termies or honour guard... when its your turn the ork mob which should have killed 5 lowly scouts outright with 70 odd attacks should now be a juicy target to counter charge ;)

 

Gc08