EquYnoX Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 For my =I= I needed a foe. So I started on a Lost and a Damned force (Eye of Terror Source book). However going over the 40k wiki I find that "The Lost and the Damned are now banned from tournaments." So what is the story on it. Legal? Illegal? Effective? Waste of time? Alternative?? thx for any help. EQU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 It's outdated and hence not in regulation. I wouldn't say total ban, but the rules are no longer accepted, and GW can't take the time to update the rules. I don't know if IG are still doing Doctrines fully but you could try making a traitor IG army, just not as fullfilling though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Or you just use the codex and wing it slightly. Overall unless you play Tournies, it shouldn't be too big a problem. And if not as stated above, go for IG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 They also won't let you play in GW stores with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastytaste Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 My friend is converting his Lost and the Damned to the new guard codex just supplementing the new guard stuff for his damned stuff. He says it has been pretty fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EquYnoX Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Cool I think I get it...but what is the big problem with it?? over powered? un-fluffy? Also thinks for the lead on the IG stuff.. do you "allie" CSM into your force?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 40K Radio's 3rd episode reported that LatD is no longer going to be allowable at GTs on a worldwide level. I doubt we'll be seeing them in tournaments again.Which is a shame imho, but at least you can use the new IG codex. Cool I think I get it...but what is the big problem with it?? over powered? un-fluffy?I don't think that is why, I think it has more to do with GW wanting to eliminate all the sub-list armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I might not play Latd, but I feel sad, another good army gone. I love Retcons :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 The saddest part is that they were the most fluffy chaos army. Chaos marines are rare, and their are few planets that demons can just spawn out of thin air on their own. Most chaos armies are going to be traitors, cultists, mutants, freakish monsters, etc. LatD were fluffy, and very fun to play. Actually I think GW could at least throw mutant squads as options in chaos or demon armies. Basically allow the apoc unit in smaller games, but allow them to take aspiring champions like they use to. If you did that people could still field LatD just minus the guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Cool I think I get it...but what is the big problem with it?? over powered? un-fluffy? Also thinks for the lead on the IG stuff.. do you "allie" CSM into your force?? Nope, no rules to ally the guard to marines. You could try converting a =][= army to represent them... Not really the same thing though. The newest C:CSM doesnt work with it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EquYnoX Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 OK.. I have to ask this question then. What aout the trator troops and mutants listed in the Witch Hunter Codex. Can they still be used when Feilded against a WH army? I might just have to make a small CSM force with a look of add ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 OK.. I have to ask this question then. What aout the trator troops and mutants listed in the Witch Hunter Codex. Can they still be used when Feilded against a WH army? I might just have to make a small CSM force with a look of add ons. Guess so... Its not a great list though, but nothing that I know of stops it being even tourney legal as the WH is still valid. Someone probably knows better than me about this though, and I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I'm still an avid player of the Lost And Damned list, which I use on Vets Night at my local GW. I've never had any flak from other players or the Blue (and black) Shirted Lackys. The problems with the list is that it's a supliment to a couple of Codexs (Codi?) that no longer exist so you have to employ a bit of jiggerly pokerry to make it fit. If one uses the troop choices listed in C: eot there's not much problem; it's when you try to integrate units from the Guard and CSM list that you have to use your head. And as always, so long as you err on the less powerful or more points expensive of the rules you'll never get pulled for exploitation. Examples: My army is a traitor guard company and so it is lead by a 'company commander'. Under the old IG list, I'd use a snr officer but not take his retinue, medics, standards etc and just run him as an I.C. Now he's using the Company Commander IG HQ slot and running as a little command squad but just with a flammer and some las pistol and cc weapon mates. I also would not dream of trying to use the IG orders for two reasons; 1) A uniform does not a Guardsman make. The sanity and discipline of the company would have undoubtedly suffered during their conversion and so their efficientcy. 2) the Traitor Guard troop choice is not an IG choice - it's a C: EOT choice so should not benifit. I use six Alpha Legionares in the army: a five man 'combat squad' that can be picked straight out of C:CSM with no trouble, and a Herald of the Legion that is picked from the choas champion choice from C:EOT. With his powerfist (priced from the squad upgrades of a normal CSM squad) and his Icon of Chaos Undivided (Alpha Legion standard) he weights in not far short of 100pts. I could probably get away with running him as a chaos LT. from, the old C:CSM but he's a model built speciically for the Traitor Guard force and has better charactor my way I feel. Also the erring with the more cost intensive method stops there being any sort of problems. Not that any have come up. I'm also looking at using the list to build a Genestealer Cult army, basically subbing the CSM options with Genestealer ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrum proeliator Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 take a look at the renegade rules in IA:5. These cover a more fluffy take on CSM. Renegade astartes are elites and then the rest of the list is basically a guard army. Forgeworld rules are generally accepted, so you might be able to get away with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I've always wanted to get acouple of the IA books but they're so damned expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I have 2 and they are worth every penny if for no other reason the ideas you get from the kick ass pics. I to would vote on the Forge world list as you best bet scine they have made a huge investment in models to support that list. Since GW want to push "counts as" so hard just get the book and use normal minies you make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 The saddest part is that they were the most fluffy chaos army. Now, the saddest part is my muties sitting around unloved and unused, wandering if they'll ever get to fire their guns again :tu: It's a real shame that they're not supported anymore, though, so much kitbashing fun to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Now, the saddest part is my muties sitting around unloved and unused, wandering if they'll ever get to fire their guns again :tu: It's a real shame that they're not supported anymore, though, so much kitbashing fun to be had. Bah, Muties killed more of themselves than the enemy when they fire their weapons. Silly Gets Hot! rule on basic weapons. ;) Totally feel ya on missing the LatD though. They were the most versatile list in all of 3rd, considering you could take options from 3 different Codex books and 1 Chapter Approved list (Kroot Mercs). Sad face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I've seen a couple IG lists as Traitor Guard that use Straken modelled as a Chaos Space Marine (he has the statline for it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I've seen a couple IG lists as Traitor Guard that use Straken modelled as a Chaos Space Marine (he has the statline for it). Huh... that's actually a really smart idea. Thanks for sharing that one. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EquYnoX Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 So I took the advice and used C:IG fro mu LatD force. OMG talk about large. It does put teh LatD force to shame in being a "hoard" force. This is (basically) what I am thinking. HQ: Commisioner Lord: modeled as a CSM El: Big mutants (Orge) and Rogue Pykers (Pykers) TP: 2 infanty Company. Made up of Trators (inf plat), Fanantic (Spec weapons teams ith flamers) and a Very large Tyrant Cult (Consript force with "send in the second wave") Mutant squad (penial troop with deserado acting as mutations) FA: Chaos hound (= to rough riders) Now.. while this looks good I still don't get the "chaos" feeling off this group. SO what I think I may do is make two list for the same models. Using the "count as rule" It will be a C:EoT force but will be able to use C:IG rules if a probelm rises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 For my =I= I needed a foe. So I started on a Lost and a Damned force (Eye of Terror Source book). However going over the 40k wiki I find that "The Lost and the Damned are now banned from tournaments." So what is the story on it. Legal? Illegal? Effective? Waste of time? Alternative?? thx for any help. EQU illegal in tournaments that say it is, and thats it, GW have never stated thats its illegal full stop, and RAW wise its still possible to make a 100% legal army using it if players say its illegal then it doesn't make any difference if they can't back up there claim there and then officially They also won't let you play in GW stores with it. tell them to show you in an official announcement or Errata (NOT FAQ) where it says you can't, otherwise as always there talking out there backside and its a house rule, which they cannot enforce if you don't agree to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 if players say its illegal then it doesn't make any difference if they can't back up there claim there and then officially oh please m8 . if you go that way your making army of death legal again and no one wants to see that one again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 if players say its illegal then it doesn't make any difference if they can't back up there claim there and then officially oh please m8 . if you go that way your making army of death legal again and no one wants to see that one again. well show me officially where it says its illegal?, until you do all this claiming things are illegal is a load of BS made up by players. they only way I consider something illegal is if its been replaced by a new codex or has had GW officially announce its illegal (that does not include some red shirt or a guy on a phone saying its illegal), lost and the damned has not been replaced by a new codex, and has not had an announcement saying its illegal, so all I'm asking for is proof, is that asking for too much from 40k players?..........actually don't answer that, I know the answer. and announcenments do not include FAQ's, only erratas, FAQ mean "FAQ all" if someone walked up to you and said "you cannot use your marine codex because us players said so" you'd tell them to do something involving the letter F and the opposite of on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 The EoT doesnt really work well, and cant be used in tourneys. The fact that GW wont allow it in tourneys pretty much says they dont support it. Ok so you can use it in normal games... but then you are going to struggle. It doesnt really work with either the C:CSM or new C:IG, and is not that string on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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