1000pt Marine vs Nids

[Morello48]

Hey all,

 

Just looking for some advice on choices I should make for my army vs nids. Before I get into what I have at my disposal I'll say what I can remember of what my opponent has for nids. 1xCarnifex, 5xWarriors, 1xHive Tyrant, 2xTyrant Guards, 1xBroodlord, X amount of Genestealers and Gaunts. Pretty sure that's what his make-up will be.

 

Here is what i have to choose from for my army:

 

HQ - 1xLibrarian, 1xCaptain

Troops - 35xMarines, 5xScouts, 1xRhino

Fast Attack - 10xAssault Marines

Elites - 5xTerminators, 1xDreadnaught

Heavy - 1xLand Raider, 1xPredator, 1xWhirlwind, 1xThunderfire Cannon(Not assembled but could make operational if need be)

 

I have some thoughts of what to use already but I am looking for some other opinions from people who may have more experience against nids then I do.

 

Any help is appretiated.

 

Thanks

[Vel'Cona]

Not a Moderator but I'm not certain this post should be in Tactica Astartes. It may need to be moved to Army List Reviews or suchlike.

 

That said, my advice against Nid players that load up on Gaunts and Stealers is lots of AP4-6 firepower, with a mixing of Meltas to deal with the Tyrant and Fex. Librarians can be really helpful for occasionally dispelling the Nid's nasty psychic powers, and his shooting attacks can help to wear down their numbers. Tactical Squads and Scouts will do well with Bolters, and Meltaguns/MM can deal with MC's. Never forget to take a flamer or two, as templates can really take a hurting to the big broods. As far as armor, any vehicle with AV 12 or more can be really annoying for a Nid player, though a special note must be made about the nastiness of the TFC against swarming, CC based opponents (this includes Orks).

 

Try building your 1k list taking some of this advice, and post it in Army List Reviews. I'd like to see what you come up with! :)

[Morello48]

My apologies if I posted in the wrong area. I'm new here. :lol:

 

I was leaning towards going heavy shooty, something along the lines of this:

 

HQ - Librarian Terminator+Storm Bolter w/Smite & Gates of Infin.(Placed in Termi. squad)

Elites - 5xTemies w/Assault Cannon

Troops - 2x10 Man Tac. Squads w/metlaguns, lascannons & storm bolters on the Sergeants

5xScouts w/sniper rifles(Figure snipers for the "ignore toughness" on a 4+ wound roll against the Carni and such) & camo cloaks

Heavy - 1xPredator w/autocannon & heavy bolters

1xWhirlwind

[waaanial00]

Lots of advice here:

 

Libby - Replace Smite with the template power (my memory fails me at the name of it). You wont have to hit and it will save you if those little bugs get too close. I am still not sold on GOI, having tried it for several games, I would be more inclined to exchange it for something else but the problem is that the standard Libby powers just arent that great against nids.

 

Termies - Go for cyclone, it gives you standard AP3 S8 which is great for dealing with carnifexes and Hive Tyrants who do not have a 2+ save (ASK BEFORE THE GAME STARTS!). It also has the added flexibility of giving you two templates to get rid of small bugs easier.

 

Tactical Squads - Just dont see Lascannons and Melta Guns being worth it for the points. They are both single shot, very expensive tank busters - problem being that there are no tanks to bust. Sure AP1 and AP2 are nice but you will be wanting these guys to take on things like Warriors and genestealers in shooting, for this I would suggest the humble missile launcher and flamer.

 

Not only are they free but AP3 is as good enough when you add in the flexibility of having a blast template plus the flamer will make up for the loss of AP1 the first time you use it to kill a load of Gaunts or Stealers.

 

Scouts - NO! Just no. With so few sniper rifles on the table these guys, unless you are very lucky, are going to miss every time or simply refuse to get any shots through armour. They are not as good as you believe they are, they only achieve usefulness at 10+ sniper rifles IMO. If you dont believe me do the math, they are going to miss half their shots, then only half are going to wound, then only 1/3 are going to get through an armour save of 3+. You can only shoot a maximum of 5 shots a turn, they just arent good enough!

 

Believe me I have run them and they are better for counter assault with blades and pistols. Hell shotguns are a better idea against bugs, witht the obvious shift of targets to the smaller guys. Just wouldnt bother with them. Instead make some point savings and get 5 Sternguard. These hit more and wound more (2+ instead of 4+), 5 should be enough.

 

Pred - Ok its good, one of the best choices against the bugs. Expect it to be shaken a lot though, the bugs Venom Cannon I assume is on the carnifex is going to have prescious few targets.

 

Whirlwind - Its a hoard killer but you have to be lucky with it. This thing scatters like nobodies business, I would be tempted to get the Thunderfire instead. It is more points but you get more templates and therefore more chances to get the right scatter. The subterrainean rounds are also awesome at slowing down the hoard (slows down the small bugs which in turn slows down the bigger ones).

 

Hope this all helps, my 3rd army is going to be Nids which is why I know a moderate amount of stuff about them.

 

Watch your flanks and dont charge the genestealers!

 

Wan

[Morello48]

Well after modifying a bit and removing the Scouts(I agree that they are pretty weak in a 5 man squad) I am able to fit in a Dreadnaught. As for my Librarian I'm going to look over my psychic powers again. While I do like the Vortex of Doom @ S10 AP1 I don't like the thought of it being place on his head if I fail the psychic test. There goes the Libby and possibly 2 Termies. While this is unlikely it still scares me lol. As for the thunderfire cannon. I am itching to get it into action but I don't think I could get it pieced together in time. I would very much like to but I just don't have the time to do it before the game. :o

 

Here is a revamped list...I wish my Nid friend had more points I prefer 1500pt games.

 

HQ - 1xLibrarian Terminator+Storm Bolter(Placed in Termi. squad)

Elites - 5xTemies w/cyclone launcher, 1xDreadnaught w/twin-linked autocannon

Troops - 2x10 Man Tac. Squads w/flamers, missle launchers & storm bolters on the Sergeants

Heavy - 1xPredator w/autocannon & heavy bolters, 1xWhirlwind

[Vel'Cona]

That should do well enough. Plenty of firepower and just enough assault to fend off the big bugs. I would still like to see Power Fists or Lightning Claws on the Tac Sergeants, but that's me. Other than that, consider an Assault Cannon for the Dread. Rending was nerfed in 5th, sure, but it can still put the hurting on big bugs with some luck and is great for thinning the swarms.

 

Oh and the psychic power I prefer against nids is Avenger, which I believe is what Wan was referencing. S5 AP3 template is death incarnate to everything short of Carnifexes. Don't be scared to use Vortex though, it's devastating on a Relentless Libby and the odds of it failing catastrophically are very low. Personally, I think the benefit outweighs the risk. But that's me :wub:

[brakkar]

Other power for libby is avenger it uses the flamer template

[Gornall]

If you can fit the TFC in there, it is MUCH better against Nids than the Whirlwind. The biggest weakness of the TFC is that it falls to lots of ranged shooting. However, against Nids, shooting is less of a concern, so if you put it in a ruins in the corner, you can potentially outrange a lot of the nasty shots from your opponent. The fact that it allows 4 blast templates rather than 1 big shot allows you to still do damage even if your scatter dice hate you. That and it allows you to take advantage if your opponent happens to leave a group of 4-5 bugs packed too closely together (e.g. against a group of 4 warriors the best you could do with the WW is 4 hits, but if you roll hot with the TFC, you could hit with up to 16). It's flexibility is also nice, as it can smash small bugs or at Strength 6 can still force the big bugs to make saves. Even the Techmarine is nice because he has PFs, a flamer, and a TL Plasma Pistol. Just good stuff all around.

 

Also, it doesn't hurt to have a few AP2 weapons in your army to help deal with any 2+ save MCs. I like Lascannon sides for my Predator for this reason, but the Heavy Bolters are so nice against smaller bugs. Just be careful that you keep your Termies alive, as they're the only thing that can really threaten the MCs in H2H.

[Morello48]

Yeah I wish I could get the TFC ready in time but unfortunately it won't be ready for this game. It would also be nice if I could take a couple of PF on my sergeants but I would lose either the dreadnaught or the whirlwind to fit them in. I was also debating throwing the lascannon sponsons on the predator and use it just as a MC killer, since I don't have much for heavy firepower in my troops.

 

Actually just doing some math here as I am writing this...if I put lascannons sponsons on the predator I could bring the Dread stock and drop the storm bolters on the libby and the sergeants I'd be good to go. I think I may try that combo see how it works. Hopefully next time I play him my TFC will be ready. My next game after this will probably be vs Orks so I really want to have it ready for then lol.

 

Thanks for all the help guys!!

[pryor]

A whirlwind is great against hordes and you do need a little luck with it but leave in the open with clear lines of sight.

It won't scatter as much if the whirlwind can see the target and it is more mobile than the thunderfire.

The mobility allows to run away from the gribbles that are getting to close but don't the offensive option of tank shock either.

It really depends on whether you want the mobility or not.

This based on my experience with whirlwinds but I have not yet acquired the Thunderfire so don't treat this as gospel (so to speak).

[brakkar]

I'd put assault cannon and heavy flamer(in place of storm bolter) on dread.

[Coyote]

Feedback on the Thunderfire Cannon: I LOVE these guys, and most of the 'Nid players that I've met fear them. For good reason. TCs are fully capable of wiping entire 'Nid units in one turns' firing. And they pop a serious CC IC 2/3rds of the time when they get hit. They MUST be placed in cover to survive, which can limit them due to LOS. But there is nothing better for spraying a 'Nid force at range. And the Tremor ammo can play merry havoc, if properly used, as it can freeze 1+ units in place. This slows down the whole force.

 

But the biggest effect of a TC is psychological. Don't underestimate this. Put one way the heck in the middle of nowhere, and watch how much of the 'Nid force has to split off to deal with it. Divide & conquer, brothers.