Gornall Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Just wondering if people have been trying out very many PS games and if Devastators are coming into their own when buttoned up in Bastions? I just see Predators/Dreadnoughts asking for first turn Melta drops (unless you have a LSS nearby!), meaning Devastators might be more useful than in regular games. Any thoughts? EDIT: Anyone think we should start a PS Tactica thread with some of the nice strats/gimmicks that we can use as SMs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Anyone think we should start a PS Tactica thread with some of the nice strats/gimmicks that we can use as SMs? I think it may be a bit early for that. After people get a few (dozen) games in, we might have a baseline for a Tactica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 The problem is that a Bastion only has six firepoints to spread out along four facings- I dont know about you but thats an awfully low number of models. You can place more on the roof to be sure, but then your giving your opponent +1 on the damage table. Of all the Devastator style squads the only I can see truely excelling at this more than say a tactical squad are Long Fangs because of their split fire ability. Otherwise your getting in most cases 2 shots at your target- wasting two of your heavy weapons. Might as well go with a tactical squad at that point for the cheaper weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I don't understand why standing on the roof of a building increases the chance it will be damaged. Regarding Tactica, it would be useful to have such a thread for first impression, theory and so on. One thing to note for sure; Melta Bombs and Chainfists are officially back in style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Game balance... it even warps the laws of physics! Since you cant hurt models on the roof I suppose it was the balancing factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Game balance... it even warps the laws of physics! Since you cant hurt models on the roof I suppose it was the balancing factor. Yeah. Otherwise you could put a whole, firing IG blob inside a Bastion and unload on any poor saps getting within range. To start off with some interesting strategem synergy... If I'm the attacker and can have 3-4 Strategem points, I'm taking the one that allows you to switch the locations of two of your opponent's units, and the one that forces your opponent to take armor saves for any models in a specific Bastion... any that pass are removed from play. "Oh... Abaddon and Termies or Calgar and Honorguard are chilling out in a LR? Let's switch them and that unit in that Bastion there and make them take some saves.... hehehe" Would also work if a CSM player tried to hide Oblits in Bastions. That or the extra firestorms and -2 leadership for first turn coupled with the Drop Pod strategem that forces leadership saves for anyone within 6" of a landing pod... "Bye, bye IG grunts... see ya in a few turns" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 They're not under cover (although the sides might provide some cover, there's nothing over them) so they're an easier target, plus someone's more likely to be lobbing heavy weapons fire up onto the roof, which isn't always as heavily armored/reinforced as the walls might be. That's my guess at their reasoning "in game", anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 They're not under cover (although the sides might provide some cover, there's nothing over them) so they're an easier target, plus someone's more likely to be lobbing heavy weapons fire up onto the roof, which isn't always as heavily armored/reinforced as the walls might be. That's my guess at their reasoning "in game", anyway. The thing is, it doesn't make it easier to kill the guys inside... it makes it easier to blow up the building (+1 on the damage chart). I guess the added weight of the guys on the roof reduces the integrity of the building. :unsure: Also, it actually makes it easier on the survivors if the building blows, as they only take S3 hits rather that S4 ones. The way the Bastions are modeled, they should take S5 hits for falling so dang far. :drool: That and if you wanted to be a complete RAW guy, having it counts as open topped means your unit could hop out anywhere along the building, and not at one of the access points. Just a lot of interesting stuff from that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Otherwise your getting in most cases 2 shots at your target- wasting two of your heavy weapons. Might as well go with a tactical squad at that point for the cheaper weapons. do people forget about combat squads?, stick 5 men in with 2 heavies, and 5 men on the ground behind a wall with 2 heavies nothing wasted then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 And then you have a five man squad out in the open getting shot up... and doesnt have 360' veiw like the internal squad... I suppose it just seems like a waste- but then I have an alternative that is better. *shrugs*. I still say Sterngaurd are likely the #1 codex defensive unit, and sadly elite slots are the one really restricted defender choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 And then you have a five man squad out in the open getting shot up... and doesnt have 360' veiw like the internal squad... I suppose it just seems like a waste- but then I have an alternative that is better. *shrugs*. I still say Sterngaurd are likely the #1 codex defensive unit, and sadly elite slots are the one really restricted defender choice. Yeah... SMs are just made for attacking in PS. Our Elites/FA are just much better IMO than most of our heavy choices. Ironclads, DPs, SG with Combi Meltas, MMs on all sorts of fast units, Terminators (of both kinds), and even properly equipped Assault Marines are just too awesome for attacking. We have a lot of ways of popping Bastions left and right. Vulkan led armies are just gonna be nasty for PS attacks. Meltas for popping bastions or flamer spam for clearing them out. Defense on the other hand... I remain somewhat unsure of how that will play out. I think you could make a very interesting list with a few beacons/homers on your troops deploying in/around your objectives and then Drop pod in reinforcements like crazy. That and I know Greatcrusade will probably be rockin' a few LSS to make an attacker think twice about DSing in too close. That and we're one of the few armies that could probably leave a tank (LR) out in the open during first turn without worrying too much about the firestorm/DS hitting side/rear armor. Meltas would still hurt though. All in all, I think there are a ton of interesting options to try out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 If you go tank heavy take the Trenchs strategem- its only one point but gives all your units a 5+ cover save for the firestorm and turn one- even vehicles will apreciate that protecting their side armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 And then you have a five man squad out in the open getting shot up... and doesnt have 360' veiw like the internal squad boohoo, there gonna get shot up, live with it, thats what walls are for and all squads have a 360 degree view, turning around isn't moving cus 40k doesn't have facings :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 What I mean by that is with the terrain of a normal PS mission thrown out there the veiw from a tower is alot less blocked then the troops on the ground and that a 5 man squad will likely not survive the firestorm. But then I dont really use combat squads, so this is just what Ive seen from others executing the tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I won a PS game at my local GW store the other day (a game I had no right to win, as it was my first and the other player was taking advantage of that). I was playing SM on Defense. A few notes: I fielded one 5-man Devastator squad with 3 Lascannons for the AP. I put them in cover. They were a good choice, as they weren't too expensive, and the signum REALLY helped increase the apparent threat level. My Thunderfire Cannon (yeah, I love em) actually had a greater threat level since I was playing vs. Tau. It only got off one shot, but who cares? It wiped 150pts of Kroot in it's one turn, and gave me a Tech in a Servo-harness to threaten a repair on one of my Dreads after the Cannon got popped. So my opponent devoted waaaayyyy too much shooting to a 100pt model. :) And the Tech was as good in CC as a vanilla-MoF. I used the Escape Hatch, a Dread in a DP, and an Assault Term Squad as my counter-strikes. Plan to counter-strike. If you don't, then you plan to lose as SM.The Escape Hatch turned my Tac Squad into something useful, since I could 'Teleport' out of a Strongpoint. I then opened up with Rapidfire, and even assaulted the next turn. LOL The Dread in a DP is IMHO the best counter-armor option we've got, 'cuz you can drop a Multi-Melta right next to any target and fire FTW. And don't underestimate the effect of a DP in cutting someone's line in two. This one DP allowed me to sever his force into pieces that I then chewed up. And the Terms....just remember that the defender DOES NOT get to auto-assault. Something that I missed. But, I had 3xStormshields, so it was all good. Hope that these ideas help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 If you want pure win against firestorms, just put an even number of guys on each side of a wall, so no matter which side it falls on (unless it manages to hit right on the wall) you get a 4+ cover or even a 2+ if you go to ground because of the Aegis Defense Line rule. :) But I agree about having combat squads outside... I normally run Mech (even before the IG codex) so I don't like having anyone out in the open. My opponents just wipe out any Marines not encased in AV. I would think PS would be even more brutal on those poor saps without a bunker to hide out in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 If you want pure win against firestorms, just put an even number of guys on each side of a wall, so no matter which side it falls on (unless it manages to hit right on the wall) you get a 4+ cover or even a 2+ if you go to ground because of the Aegis Defense Line rule. :devil: How does the Aegis Wall work against the Firestorm, anyway? Seeing as the shot is fired from orbit, and therefore comes from above, I don't quite see how a wall is supposed to give cover? Though I'd love to have as may cover saves against that firestorm as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 How does the Aegis Wall work against the Firestorm, anyway? Seeing as the shot is fired from orbit, and therefore comes from above, I don't quite see how a wall is supposed to give cover? Though I'd love to have as may cover saves against that firestorm as possible Because it's barrage, and you measure cover saves from the center of the template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Nostromo Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I echo the thought that space marines are a far more effective attacking force in planetstrike than defending. Of devastators, my experience in several games thus far is that they (Long Fangs in my case, and thus with the split fire benefit mentioned earlier in the thread) are very effective if, and only if, they can be positioned in a bastion with several decent lines of fire. Terrain placement and deployment are the absolute key of getting the most, or even anything, out of devastators in planetstrike. Leaving them outside a bastion is only going to get them killed, and quickly. They are just too much of a firestorm and deep strike target if they don't have a structure to weather the storm in. Having said all that, one decent salvo and they've got their points back. My 'cheap' unit (3 missile launchers, 1 heavy bolter) managed to stop an eldar invasion almost single handed because my terrain setup funneled the xenos into a couple of firing 'lanes' (and his firestorm sucked!). On the flip side, that pack have also been wiped out in the first turn a couple of times in planetstrike defence because people often know how dangerous they can be and make their bastion a primary target. Overall, they seem worth it, and for SM they rival any other unit to fill your bastions with (unless you are going for an all out counter-attack of course). With 6 heavy support choices though, why not eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldilar Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 my devastator squad experience came in a mega battle of PS, so it might not be as tactically sound in smaller games, but really - I put them in a blown out building terrain piece, and they got to fire heavy weapons out of windows for 5 turns without ever getting touched. Other things drew more attention, like my Vindicator, counter-striking Assault Terminators, DP Dreadnought. I had a lot of success with Plasma Cannons at range against the Tyranid and Necron hordes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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