Red Hunters, any additional info?

[Daedalus Templarius]

So I was thinking of adding some SM to my inquisition/GK force, since I'd prefer to use SM instead of IG guys... simply because I like them more. This chapter, the Red Hunters (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Red_Hunters), supposedly has strong ties to the Inquisition, and are mentioned in the new IA Seige of Vraks 3 that is coming out soon, I hope (GK redeemer rules!).

 

Anyone know anything about this chapter besides the scant info I've found online? They would fit with my SM + Inquisition/GK ideas perfectly.

[WarriorFish]

It could well be that's all there is about them! Why not create a DIY Chapter with close ties to the =][=? That way you can decide how they fight and their colour scheme yourself :)

[Daedalus Templarius]

I suppose I could do that, but I can't argue with the Red Hunters color scheme and symbol :D they look pretty cool as is.

 

Oh, and I really dislike the force org with allies, so confusing. Not to mention the only place its been updated is with the 'ard boys faq. I'll probably end up using SM and inducting my GKs as allies... or just play Apoc and then it doesn't matter.

 

I'm getting the black reach set later today for a starter (I also have some SM lying around from like... the 80s)... anyone had any experience converting them? I'm planning on switching the terms to TH/SS assault terms, I know its been done, but would the best way be to just buy the converter kit from GW?

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...dId=prod1400033 - TH/SS conversion kit

[WarriorFish]

The olde old stuff doesn't work that well with the modern stuff, so you'd need to do either some GS magic or clever converting or use older bits. The bits you linked are for power armoured marines so they should go with the old termies fairly well. You might be able to find something useful by searching the PCA section of the B&C.

 

As for using allies, it's actually pretty simple. If you're taking a non-ordo army you can take up to 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite and 1 Fast Attack from either of the WH or DH books. The only limitation is that you can't use those choices as mandatory selections.

 

If you're using WH or DH, you can ally in Guard or Marines, but you can't have Marines if you use SoB or GK. All you have to do is use them from their own codex (ie no mixing armouries) and you're done! :lol:

[Daedalus Templarius]

The olde old stuff doesn't work that well with the modern stuff, so you'd need to do either some GS magic or clever converting or use older bits. The bits you linked are for power armoured marines so they should go with the old termies fairly well. You might be able to find something useful by searching the PCA section of the B&C.

 

As for using allies, it's actually pretty simple. If you're taking a non-ordo army you can take up to 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite and 1 Fast Attack from either of the WH or DH books. The only limitation is that you can't use those choices as mandatory selections.

 

If you're using WH or DH, you can ally in Guard or Marines, but you can't have Marines if you use SoB or GK. All you have to do is use them from their own codex (ie no mixing armouries) and you're done! :)

 

Yea, I suppose its not too bad, I just want to be able to use a GK Redeemer when the rules come out for it, but its not really a big deal, and for Apoc I don't really have to worry about it.

 

One thing I do love in the new SM codex though, is that a SPACE MARINE CAPTAIN... has a better statline than a Grand Master. Isn't that amazing? Although, at least the GM has 4 attacks and a s6 force weapon. I guess its not really that many more points for that. You'd think a GM would still be better tho. Should be at least WS6 :)

[jeffersonian000]

Yep, when GW released 3rd Ed, they level the playing field by reducing stats and increasing costs to which 4th and 5th Ed both have crept away from by increasing stats and lowering costs. However, from a fluff point of view, one could say that GK novices wear power armour, their brethren wear tactical dreadnought armour, and their Grand Masters are really just veteran lieutenant. This should give us room to grow if/when anything new ever gets published.

 

SJ

[Daedalus Templarius]

Well, even though the GM is massively overpriced, he made his points back by insane amounts tonight, sweeping through squad after squad of guardsmen and Ogryns, even after his retinue fell. But, in the end he was killed by about 12 plasma shots, in which I had nothing but my 5+ invuln.

 

Although that is the case, my SM Captain + Assault terms made their points back too, and probably better than the GM did. How is mephistron not going to have any invuln saves? the relic blade mauled his face.

[Chengar Qordath]

Well, even though the GM is massively overpriced, he made his points back by insane amounts tonight, sweeping through squad after squad of guardsmen and Ogryns, even after his retinue fell. But, in the end he was killed by about 12 plasma shots, in which I had nothing but my 5+ invuln.

 

Although that is the case, my SM Captain + Assault terms made their points back too, and probably better than the GM did. How is mephistron not going to have any invuln saves? the relic blade mauled his face.

Honestly, I don't think the GKGM is that massively overpriced; 4 base attacks, Terminator Armor, and a S6 Force Weapon that technically ignores Eternal Warrior isn't too bad for 45 points more than a SM Captain.

 

In my most recent game with my GKGM, he mashed a group of Striking Scorpions with their Pheonix Lord, and then killed a Wraithlord in cc thanks to his Force Weapon.

[WarriorFish]

The GKGM isn't that bad from what I've seen, ignoring EW is priceless especially against those :D Phoenix Lords (probably a master card advert in there somewhere). Kudos for taking down the Wraithlord too!

[Alanter]

Ignoring EW ist priceless, WarroirFish, but there are not that many EW in todays tournament scene. Abaddon is the only one that is seen often and then he will kill a GM without doubt. Most EW Characters are weak enough to be killed by normal forces. The Demonprince for instance has T5 and just a 5++ save. The PLs and the WL not really competitive, same goes for Marenus and Lysander.

 

The question is do you really need this force weapon?

 

edit: Any pictures of the upcoming force, Daedalus Templarius?

[Daedalus Templarius]

I'll try and get a pic of all my stuff posted later, I have another piece of art I'm working on that I want to post at the same time.

 

But yea, the GKGM is only seems pretty overpriced when you have him loaded up on wargear, the base price isn't too bad. I have a Psycannon and a PsyHood on mine, so thats like an additional 50pts, but worth it most of the time. I did forget to use the psyhood against mephistron last night tho :) not like it mattered when he got his face crushed in by assault terms and my captain.

[WarriorFish]

I have a beef with the Phoenix Lords, so anything that ruins their day is good in my books!

 

Anyway, I advise against over loading on wargear for anything really. Furthermore some models - like the GKGM I reckon - are better off kept cheap because they're already pretty effective as is. Like Daedalus' choice of upgrades - effective but doesn't break the bank.

 

Also makes their loss less painful when they inevitably die to a lasgun -_-

[Daedalus Templarius]

Also makes their loss less painful when they inevitably die to a lasgun ^_^

 

The massed plasma last night hurt pretty bad, but it was his last squad of veterans, heh.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

Ignoring EW ist priceless, WarroirFish, but there are not that many EW in todays tournament scene. Abaddon is the only one that is seen often and then he will kill a GM without doubt. Most EW Characters are weak enough to be killed by normal forces. The Demonprince for instance has T5 and just a 5++ save. The PLs and the WL not really competitive, same goes for Marenus and Lysander.

 

The question is do you really need this force weapon?

 

edit: Any pictures of the upcoming force, Daedalus Templarius?

 

You are definitely right about not that many models having EW...but EW isn't the only thing it overcomes - multi wound models, and especially MCs (Nidzilla) is a huge use for the GM NFW.

 

I feel you do need it, but there are lots of guys who do just fine running a water list with a BK...

[Daedalus Templarius]

BK?

[Chengar Qordath]

I'm guessing he meant a Brother-Captain.

[Alanter]

You are definitely right about not that many models having EW...but EW isn't the only thing it overcomes - multi wound models, and especially MCs (Nidzilla) is a huge use for the GM NFW.

 

I feel you do need it, but there are lots of guys who do just fine running a water list with a BK...

 

That's a point Grand Master Iapetus. It is the cost that keeps me away form that force weapon or better the costs of opportunity. A BC+1,5GKT are better for normal duty. They can stand an shoot with PC without paying points for those nifty cc abbilities a GM has. They can keep the tide in a orc horde.

 

Where the GM is a perfect hero slayer, the BC is more of a working horse. I think it is the rest of the armie that decides which one is the right.

[Daedalus Templarius]

Since I am fielding SM with inducted GK, does that mean I can attach an Apothacary to that(GKT) squad? Having a FNP on that unit would be helpful.

 

On a sidenote, I only have 3 PAGKs left to paint before all of my GK units are actually painted. Haven't actually started on my marines yet, but their color scheme is a bit simpler than the GK... also new big painting of a giant war scene featuring GK is almost done as well.

[Alanter]

Since I am fielding SM with inducted GK, does that mean I can attach an Apothacary to that(GKT) squad? Having a FNP on that unit would be helpful.

 

Why should you be able to to this? Apos are Command Squad only.

[Daedalus Templarius]

Yea I didn't really carefully read over the entry for the Apoth yet, I just hatched the idea while I was at work.

 

But darn.

[Loyalist]

There's very little information available on the Red Hunters chapter. Wikipedia has an illustration of the colour scheme that's quite good, and better than the one on the old GW site's SM chapters gallery.

 

All that I could find was that the Red Hunters have close ties to the Inquisition and the entire chapter has been known to serve under an Inquisitor Lord. No particular Ordos was mentioned. The Inquisitorial looking =I= on the shoulder pad doesn't necessarily represent the Inquisition. One source said it might stand for the Imperium.

 

Nothing is known about the chapter's founding, homeworld or degree of adherence to the Astartes Codex. However, because they're close to the Inquisition one would expect them to be a Codex chapter.

 

Part of my Deathwatch SM army is being repainted as Red Hunters to represent a mixed force of Space Marines allied to the Inquisition (and to add more colour to a mostly black force). The army will have an allied Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lord and retinue based on the Witch Hunters codex.

 

I plan to write some fluff for the Red Hunters when I finish the repaints.

[Daedalus Templarius]

Sounds good.

 

I would prefer the skull and =I= symbol on my red hunters, but the forgeworld brass iconography for =I= will have to do. They do give you plenty of tiny inquisition symbols, so I can at least tool out a whole squad to have them, although i may do it on the sarges. The Land Raiders get the big ones.

[DinoDoc]

Sounds good.

 

I would prefer the skull and =I= symbol on my red hunters, but the forgeworld brass iconography for =I= will have to do. They do give you plenty of tiny inquisition symbols, so I can at least tool out a whole squad to have them, although i may do it on the sarges. The Land Raiders get the big ones.

I suppose it depends on how closely the symbol there is associated with Ordo Xenos, but this kit might help with your needs.

[Loyalist]

For the Red Hunters shoulder pad insignia on power armoured figures I used the smaller of the two sizes of white skull on the Imperial Guard vehicle tranfer sheets and the small black =I= symbols from the middle of the With Hunters transfer sheets.

 

The latter have to be cut in two and applied separately, with a bit of vertical overlap to let them fit on the skull's forehead - a bit fiddly. I used the larger white skulls for Terminator shoulder pads. The =I= fits on those without mods.

[Loyalist]

If we want to generate fluff for the Red Hunters there are some questions to be asked and information from the 40K mythos to be considered.

 

Three Ordos of the Inquisition have been described, each with its own Chamber Militant:

 

Ordo Hereticus - Adeptus Sororitas

 

Ordo Malleus - Grey Knights

 

Ordo Xenos - Deathwatch SM

 

The Adeptus Sororitas have a good tank, the Exorcist, plus Immolators and Rhinos. They're not as potent or as flexible as an SM force IMO. Nevertheless they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus, which also utilizes Inquisitorial Storm Troopers and Adeptus Arbites. Perhaps witches, mutants and heretics are not formidable enough to warrant the use of SMs.

 

It has been written that the Grey Knights were formed in secret after the Horus Heresy, and based in the Terran system (on Titan). They are not a Codex chapter, and undergo highly dangerous training and conditioning to prepare them to fight the daemonic. Grey Knights have some unique weaponry, described in the Daemonhunters Codex, have access to Dreadnoughts, Landraiders and Rhinos (and FW Razorbacks) but IIRC they have no Devastators, Assault Marines, Landspeeders, Whirlwinds or Vindicators.

 

Relatively little is known about the Deathwatch, except that they are one of the Space Marine chapters formed specifically to assist the Inquisition. (We know of one other chapter founded for that purpose, the Grey Knights. Are there more?) The Deathwatch appear to operate primarlily in Kill Teams, or sometimes as a force of several Kill Teams. (See 'Xenos", an Eisenhorn novel in which 6 Deathwatch teams and a DW command squad support the Ordo Xenos in a planetary assault, along with Imperial Guard troops.)

 

The Gordo novels provide a little more information about them but in the first book a single Kill Team is dropped in the midst of a Tyranid horde with predictable results (most of the team are killed). Not a wise tactical decision!

 

Elsewhere it has been written that the Deathwatch man garrisons watching over former Xenos planets and crew secret orbital fortresses scattered throughout the Imperium. The Deathwatch has access to the most advanced personal weaponry available to the Imperium, may use Xenos technology, though Puritans would not approve, and have access to special bolter ammunition. (The closest unit to a Deathwatch Kill Team in the new SM Codex is the Sternguard Veteran Squad.)

 

I've found no mention of the Deathwatch operating with their own tanks, flyers, skimmers, assault troops or in any formation except single or multiple Kill Teams. They do use Thunderhawks. They are drawn from many different Astartes chapters and do not appear to be organized like a typical SM chapter, members being called up to serve the Inquisition for a set period of time. Kill teams appear to be under the command of a variety of Inquisitors within the Ordo Xenos. Black Library novels confirm that the Deathwatch have Chaplains, Librarians and Captains who presumably hold the same ranks in their chapters of origin.

 

With each of the three identified Ordos of the Inquisition having a dedicated Chamber Militant, why are the Red Hunters needed and why are they (apparently) more closely allied with the Inquisition than other Astartes chapters? What makes them unique among other chapters in their ties with the Inquisition? Are they another chapter that was founded specifically to assist the Inquisition?

 

If so, what is their role? They have no known special attributes, weapons or training to fight daemons, witches, mutants, heretics, or aliens. Perhaps they provide what the other two Space Marine Chambers Militant appear to lack: the broad range of equipment and combat units and the tactical flexibility of a Codex Space Marine chapter.

 

If that were so one could see the Red Hunters being called up to assist the Inquisition in major conflicts where the full capacity of an Astartes chapter was required. Indeed, it has been written that at times the entire chapter has served under an Inquisitor Lord. One thousand or so SMs in battle suggests the Red Hunters are used in major conflicts (ie the Siege of Vraks), and possibly as back-up to the more tactically limited Grey Hunters, Deathwatch Kill Teams, or inducted IG troops.

 

I'm inclined to consider the Red Hunters a Codex Space Marine chapter that was specifically founded and tasked to assist any Ordo of the Inquisition in conflicts where the might of an entire chapter is required. If so, they should be more mobile than most chapters and would likely be based in a warp-capable fortress monastery versus a home planet. They might be as secretive as the Dark Angels and probably engage in battle only at the direction of the Inquisition. Thus, with a fortress monastery, no home planet, and appearance only at the request of the Inquisition, little would be known about the Red Hunters outside of the Ordos.