Tourney meta game and the psy hood

[confused_gordy]

I have been recently pondering the necessity of psychic protection within my army in the tourney envoroment, as this year will see my first GT.

 

Last year the top places were dominated by eldar, chaos and nids. The three most prevalent psy races, with eldar, and chaos almost certainly containing nasty psychic individuals. Chaos competitive builds revolve around the devastating LASH, and eldar have so many nasty psychic powers its silly, so I put it to you, Are psychic hoods almost necessary?

 

The units that can take them for vanilla marines are, the librarian, tiggy, an allied GK unit (any kind), or an allied inquisitor (lords will only be considered as normal inquisitors have terrible LD).

 

Of these the most useful seem to be the librarian and the allied GK:

 

The librarian, is the cheaper option and comes with some handy abilities, such as null zone (protection from other marine assault termies), and gate (super manuverability), however i feel the limited range of his hood is troubling.

 

The gk, are more expensive, a squad of termies, brother captain (admitedly cheaper than the libby, but a little more limited), grand master, or troop squad. However the do provide a healthy CC punch and anti infantry fire power. I am particularly fond of the troop choice squad, as it adds something marines are sorely lacking - an effective dangerous troop choice.

 

Of the above, in a normal circumstance, i would not choose to take either option, however I am concerned about the danger I may face from psychers in the tourney meta game, and can see them being more useful. So the question I pose is this; Should i do my best to include a psychic hood in my list for tourneys, and if so, which method would you suggest? (I personally would go for the GK, but im not certain).

 

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

[minigun762]

As a Chaos player, we have no access to anti-psyker gear (odd huh?) and still manage to pull off wins, so its not mandatory I'd say.

I'd ask yourself this, are you going to take a Librarian purely for the Hood? If so, then its not worth it.

If you can find a useful place for them in your army where they actually get played to their full potential, then adding the Hood probably makes alot more sense.

 

As a sidenote, I think one of the nastier abilities is Avenger? the AP3 template, as anything that ignores cover is big these days for anti-horde and you can run around in a Rhino (or with an Assault squad) and fry things. The idea of a Librarian in an Assault squad with 2 Flamer and Avenger seems like alot of fun.

[jeffersonian000]

The problem with using a hood to defeat psychic powers is that ties go to the attacker, giving you an effective 5+ save to negate a Ld10 psyker with an Ld10 Hood. If this seems benefitial to you, go for it. Personally, I'd only take a Psychic Hood if it was free, and I play Grey Knights.

 

Just saying.

 

SJ

[Grey Mage]

Id bring one... hes only 100pts after all.

[Frosty the Pyro]

The problem with using a hood to defeat psychic powers is that ties go to the attacker, giving you an effective 5+ save to negate a Ld10 psyker with an Ld10 Hood. If this seems benefitial to you, go for it. Personally, I'd only take a Psychic Hood if it was free, and I play Grey Knights.

 

Just saying.

 

SJ

you get a 41% chance (halfway between 5+ an 4+), when combined with the chance for them failing the psychic test you end with a 46.5% chance that an enemies psychic power will not go off. Without the hood they only have an 8% fail rate. This could easily make for a sad eldar/chaos marines player. It wont realy effect nids though, dispite being an excedingly psychic race, they only have two powers that require a test, neither of which are often used.

[Gornall]

To me, the hood is only part of it. Being able to Null Zone things like Assault Termies, Chaos Demons, and Eldar Fortune Shenanigans is worth the Librarian anyway.

[Vel'Cona]

I swear to the Immortal Emperor of Mankind, I'll neural whip the next guy that says shenanigans!

 

I think the Libby is a great bargain for the cost, especially in light of the Mathhammer (Psykerhammer?) that Frosty put out. I'd also be inclined to agree with Gornall that Null Zone itself is good enough (especially combined with the Hood) to help shut down some really distressing Invul save stacking. However, if the Hood doesn't come free, I'm not sure I could rationalize taking it unless the model carrying is LD10. I'd especially put in that there is probably not much need to stack them, unless you're really scared of Lash.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I swear to the Immortal Emperor of Mankind, I'll neural whip the next guy that says shenanigans!

 

Amusing, fun to say, Irish...why the hate? Overused, I'll admit, but nothing beats it as a substitute for 'hijinks' or 'cheese'.

 

OT:

 

I don't usually bother with psychic hoods; if they come free I'll use them, if not then I've got better things to spend those points on. Anyway, Grey Knights have 'Aegis', so we're not too fussed. If you do take one, make sure it's Ld10, so you can screw with Psyker Battle squads and at least annoy Eldar/Chaos casters.

[waaanial00]

SHENANIGANS!!!

 

@Reclusiarch Darius - Vel'Cona is likely spoofing/quoting a line from the film Super Troopers (awesome film).

 

On the subject of Psychic hood in tournaments I will take one just to give me a chance to shut down Eldar and Chaos powers (lash is by far the most annoying tournament power used IMO). Even if it is not a sure thing its better than nothing and can really put a crimp in an opponents battle plans if they are building a tactic around psychic powers.

 

I tried this tactic against a very good Eldar player and though he still beat me (I am not THAT good!) he did so far quicker after capping my annoying librarian who seemed to be stopping the wave of psychic buffs that were coming out of his Farseer (not Eldrad which might shock some people).

 

Wan

[Fortunate Son]

Having faced 3 Eldar Seer Councils in the first two rounds of the Ard Boyz prelims, I'd say find a way to work it in.

[maturin]

I am currently playing with a GK brother-captain allied into my 1500 Salamanders list. He's got a psycannon and psychic hood, and has come in very useful in the 2 games I've had so far. Depending on my opponent, I'll either:

1) Add him to a tac squad for extra-killy effectiveness and Ld 10.

2) Add him to my squad of vanguard veterans for extra-killy effectiveness.

3) Add him to my 5-man IST squad, to prevent that cheap scoring unit from running away (Ld 10) as they babysit my objective. Takes on any deep strikers that land nearby as well.

 

The psychic hood is effective no matter if he's sitting in the backfield, riding in my land raider, or slogging it across the board - one of the nice aspects of having an old codex, and a hood with unlimited range. Last night he stopped an IG Primaris Psyker the entire game - poor guy didn't get any attacks off at all, thanks to a bit of luck (and the Primaris' Ld 9).

 

I highly reccomend the GK bro-cap option as the most value-priced Ld10 hood you'll find.

[maturin]

EDIT: Sorry, double post. :cuss

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Basically, take what minigun said. and do the complete opposite. If you have a raider you'll probably have room for that libby also, the psychic hood doesn't use up a power. I've learned to fear enemy psykers and being able to silence them is a great advantage. I've played against a very good Gaurd player and he was able to systematically make my entire army retreat off the table with two psyker battle squads. One of which was a sternguard squad with vulkan. Unless you have Pedro, Lysander or Calgar watch out for these guys. Also we all know what lash can do, and you can stop it by passing a simple LD10 test. Not to mention the powers. I love my librarian but don't expect him to kill anything. I've seen three assault marines (No PW's) chop down my libby after causing a whopping 0 wounds with his amazing 4 attacks on the charge. he is made of glass and needs a strong entourage/ride/both. If you really can't find room for him or feel you don't need him fine, but I verily recommend him.

[jeffersonian000]

I've had poor luck with Psychic Hoods, failing all rolls due to ties going to the attacker. At 20pts for my Brother Captain, I've done fine without it. For the Marine Librarian I enjoy running in my counts as Deathwatch army, I have yet to even use his free Hood.

 

As I said, your mileage may vary; however, I suspect all of the above posts that claim unfailing usage of their Psychic Hoods based in statistic alone.

 

SJ

[maturin]

I've had poor luck with Psychic Hoods, failing all rolls due to ties going to the attacker. At 20pts for my Brother Captain, I've done fine without it. For the Marine Librarian I enjoy running in my counts as Deathwatch army, I have yet to even use his free Hood.

 

As I said, your mileage may vary; however, I suspect all of the above posts that claim unfailing usage of their Psychic Hoods based in statistic alone.

 

SJ

 

The utility of a psychic hood will of course depend on your local metagame, and jeffersonian000's correct in saying that vs. Ld10, the hood will only work less than 50% of the time. But I've been lashed/null zoned/avenger'd enough times in my area so that paying 20 points to potentially nullify enemy powers seems like a steal! I don't depend on it of course, but it's nice to have.

[Ice warrior]

For my opinion GK Br.- Captain is most useful against Lash.(all though it's worth of 81pts) Many times I have prayed for it, when a demon prince comes around corner to lash my lovely marines under template of a vindicator.

When with Brother captain DP rarely takes the risk, because failure might mean death.

 

And when enemy rely on psy powers, it's first objective might be Brother Captain. Which may give you a good benefit for following turns.

[Justicar Valius]

I am a pure daemonhunters player myself and never thought about runnig my Bc with a psy hood didn't even know SM one has 24" range till a week ago!

 

I currently run him with a psycannon in a retinue with a psycannon they advance and own. However a psychic hood would be really rather a good thought... But i need to find 20 points... Nah i will stick one in as soon as i go up to 1750.

[The Strange Dude]

I've used a basic libby in my last 4 games and he has played a part in all of them (not so much against the tau but still contribute) I run him with Null Zone and Gate. In anhilation he doesn't leave the transport and just uses Null Zone to mess up inv saves. In objective based games I disembark him turn 4 if I need to contest an objective by gating and running him. Where he really shone was against a chaos list (with Arihman Tsons and 3 Vindis) he blocked so many powers it wasn't funny (well not for my opponent) that added to Null Zone and my Sternguard really upset him (he conceded turn 5 with 1 lesser demon left).

[Bosco]

I occasionally run a terminator librarian w/storm shield (currently in my 2k tourney list) as a secondary HQ that couples with deep striking termies. The hood he includes is a side benefit, his original purpose being GoI and Avenger to compliment the squad's heavy flamer and need for mobility. It is seemingly rare that his hood stops a psychic power against another ld10 psyker, but anything that potentially interferes with my opponent's plans is a welcome addition. Unfortunately, with this unit deep striking, the hood is absent from the battlefield until turn 2 or later, but that same delivery method almost always guarantees that he will be in range to use it when he arrives.