Blood Scorpion Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Hi, I've been thinking about the pros and cons of Scout Bikers and would like to get some other opinions. I'm thinking initially of a 4-Man unit with 3 Grenage Launchers and Sergeant with Power Weapon & Meltabombs. They come to 140pts and I am thinking of running two of these units. They can Infiltrate and Scout and could take out Transports or tie up Heavy Weapon squads right at the start of the game, hopefully disrupting my opponents plans whilst the rest of the army gets into position. So what do you all think about Scout Bikers? I can't remember seeing them in anyone's army list, are they that bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaarl Stormfang Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I've have thought they'd be good with a beacon so that with scout move your first turn drop pod assault could land wherever you want it, precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confused_gordy Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Ive had a lot of sucess with them vs other SM players, Guard, Chaos, and the occassional eldar turn 1. Basically a 105 3 man unit of scouts with grenade launchers and a melta bomb, is usually a pretty much dead enemy battle tank, they simly scout around near the tank, and then move up behind it, avail the tank of 6 st 6 shots at a usual av10 rear, and assault the poor thing (or 2 if they are near each other). This is very dependant on having turn 1, and in other circumstances (against infantry heavy armies, or heavy armour forces) they suffer heavily. But nothing has put a smile on my face like worrying about my enemies 2 vindicators as i advance towards him, then completely taking care of both of them, on turn 1, with a single throw away unit. I have yet to try a large unit of them with a tooled sarge, it might prove effective (having possibly the best movement and deployment options in any codex, along with relative durability, and massed fire), but look forward to doing one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Scorpion Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 Basically a 105 3 man unit of scouts with grenade launchers and a melta bomb, is usually a pretty much dead enemy battle tank, Can you take three Grenade Launchers in a 3-man unit? I didn't think the Serg could upgrade his Bolters. Also, can they Turbo-Boost in their Scout move and then operate normally in your first turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASDF_ Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Yes, you can upgrade the sergeants bolters to a grenade launcher, and it's actually better to, hive having the BS 4, not 3. You can turbo-boost in the scout move also, which is nice so then if you don't get first turn then they get a 3+ cover save during your opponents first turn. I have a 5-man scout bike squad, with 2 grenade launchers and a powersword sergeant for 155 points. I typically don't really use it, because I just favor attack bikes with multi-melta's, but I would think the strategy you are going to use seems like they would be an effective unit, but I personally like to take other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Actually, you can't upgrade the Scout Biker Sergeant with the grenade launcher, as the upgrade specifies the non-sergeant Bikers. It's the same reason Sergeants can't get Lascannons. Also, they FAQ'd that Scout moves can never convey a turbo-boost cover save. Sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I did a pretty in depth look at the scout bikes for my 10th company tactica I used to use a unit of 5, i now use 10! As for the sergeant and grenade launcher issue.. i would say NO he cant have it, it can be taken by a scout biker.. hes a sergeant, its much the same argument as veteran/apothecary for upgrades. Gc08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Scorpion Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 Actually, you can't upgrade the Scout Biker Sergeant with the grenade launcher, as the upgrade specifies the non-sergeant Bikers. It's the same reason Sergeants can't get Lascannons. Also, they FAQ'd that Scout moves can never convey a turbo-boost cover save. Sorry... Yeah, that's how I read it. Good that they can Turbo-Boost though, even if they don't get the Cover Save. Thanks for clearing that up. Has anyone else had success with them? The more I think about it the more I want to take 3 x 4-Man Squads at 1500pts. Not only can they take out vehicles but they could fire 18 blasts into light infantry and then charge in afterwards, all before your opponent gets a chance to move! It almost sounds too good to be true for 420pts, bring on the Ork Hordes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Has anyone else had success with them? The more I think about it the more I want to take 3 x 4-Man Squads at 1500pts. Not only can they take out vehicles but they could fire 18 blasts into light infantry and then charge in afterwards, all before your opponent gets a chance to move! It almost sounds too good to be true for 420pts, bring on the Ork Hordes! You want to be careful with 4 man squads as your not gettign any 'bodybags', every casualty will be felt as they are all 10 points more expensive with nade launchers. I take ten in one big squad with fist, 3 launchers and mines and i can combat squad them if i wanted, putting serge and 4 normal guys in a CC unit and the 3 launchers and 2 spare bods in the shooty section. GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASDF_ Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Oh, sorry, I thought the sergeant could take a grenade launcher, or atleast I read that somewhere else.. But I'm away and don't have anything with me, so sorry for that, same with the turbo-boosting cover save >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 No need to apologize; better to learn what the rules actually state on-line than during a heated battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Scorpion Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 You want to be careful with 4 man squads as your not gettign any 'bodybags', every casualty will be felt as they are all 10 points more expensive with nade launchers. True, and I normally agree with taking non-upgraded models to shield expensive upgraded models, but I'm not so sure in this case as I'm trying to maximise the hitting power to smack my opponent as hard as possible before he's had chance to react. I don't expect these guys to last beyond turn 2 in most games! As I said, I'm now thinking 3 x 4-Man Squads, so that's 12 models that would be working together to clear a section of the battlefield. I could go with 2 x 6-Man Sqauds instead so that I've got a couple of "bodybags" in each unit but that reduces their hitting power (initially at least), although they are therefore cheaper this way. 1) 3 x 4-Scout Bikers (3 x Power Weapon, 3 x Meltabomb, 9 x Grenade Launcher) - 420pts 2) 2 x 6-Scout Bikers (2 x Power Weapon, 2 x Meltabomb, 6 x Grenade Launcher) - 360pts What do you think is best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confused_gordy Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Got my codex infront of me, it says "up to three bikers". It does not specify if this can be a sarg or not, therefore its completely legal to give the sarge a grenade launcher. Infact if you want to be pedantic about it, as niether the scout biker sarg, or the scout bikers, are simply called "bikers", neither can take the upgrade. (but that is rediculous) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I treat it like the veteran/apothecary argument... the sergeant clearly has a list of upgrades available to him as they state "the sergeant may", the rest of the squad are referred to as bikers, even though they are scout bikers (does it matter) and have thier own list of upgrades... Its really not hard to work out: If it doenst specifically say the sergeant can have them (and it doesnt) then you cant assume anything else! Gc08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASDF_ Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Man they need to make this codex a lot more clearer.... >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatEscape_13 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Nope. No one uses them. :lol: Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Scorpion Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Got my codex infront of me, it says "up to three bikers". It does not specify if this can be a sarg or not, therefore its completely legal to give the sarge a grenade launcher. I'm pretty sure he can't. It's like saying that a Tactical Serg can take a Plasma Gun or a Lascannon as he's a Space Marine too. It's like saying that a Scout Serg can take a Heavy Bolter or a Missile Launcher as he's a Scout too. They can't! The word 'Bikers' refers to the non-Serg models in the Scout Bike Squad so only they can take the Grenade Launchers. Nope. No one uses them. :) Cheers. Short and sweet, would you care to expand? Why does no one use them? They don't look that bad to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'm pretty sure that he's just making a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Scorpion Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'm sure he was, but seriously, no-one does use them (except GC08 who runs a 10th Company list!). I can't recall a single army list with them in except for his! Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I own a bunch, but I've yet to put them together. Purely because of a time-available issue. Once I've blocked out and painted other units in my army, I'll get to my Scout Bikers. I think the reason most folks haven't used them yet is because they compete for Fast Attack slots, which can hold simpler things like Assault Marines, Attack Bikes, or Landspeeders. Scout Bikers aren't "uber" on their own. They're facilitators for other units and tactics, like drop pod assaults, or Terminator precision strikes. Then add in the WS3/BS3 stigma that scouts have now, and folks are hesitant to use them. The 4/4 statline is a staple for marines, and to have sonething in your army without it...well, some folks don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapture747 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Then add in the WS3/BS3 stigma that scouts have now, and folks are hesitant to use them. The 4/4 statline is a staple for marines, and to have sonething in your army without it...well, some folks don't like it. Twin-linked bolters make a huge difference in this area. Scout bikers aren't as reliable as marine bikers but they are better than regular scouts. I have seven. The are one of my favorite models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I'm sure he was, but seriously, no-one does use them (except GC08 who runs a 10th Company list!). I can't recall a single army list with them in except for his! Why not? I would wager it is because they are horrible half metal, half plastic models which cost an absolute fortune. The majority of normal biker marine players usually get the ravenwing box set and convert their bikers from that because it is more economical to do so. You simply cant do that with the scout bikers. Its the same reason why you dont see many tyranid players with Gargoyles (which are arguably one of the best units the that particular codex) their standard model is metal, horrible and damn expensive. You also wont see many lists with scout bikers on forums as a number of people read other lists before posting their own (if they are anything like me they will) and the generalised I am wanting some scout bikers for their abilities but I am damned if I am going to buy more half and half models. I am going to get some plastic scouts and convert the damn things, it cant be that hard. Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I would wager it is because they are horrible half metal, half plastic models which cost an absolute fortune. The majority of normal biker marine players usually get the ravenwing box set and convert their bikers from that because it is more economical to do so. You simply cant do that with the scout bikers. You know they have new, all-plastic Scout Bikers out, right? The only pain is that they don't sell them in a three-pack. You have to buy individual bikers in the small boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatEscape_13 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I was only half joking. I don't know anyone who runs them. Just one guy who is "working on his scout company" that never actually brings it in to my LGS. So observationally, no one uses them--at least near me. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I would wager it is because they are horrible half metal, half plastic models which cost an absolute fortune. The majority of normal biker marine players usually get the ravenwing box set and convert their bikers from that because it is more economical to do so. You simply cant do that with the scout bikers. You know they have new, all-plastic Scout Bikers out, right? The only pain is that they don't sell them in a three-pack. You have to buy individual bikers in the small boxes. I have 3 of the older half metal/plastic ones (boxed set i think), and brought 2 of the singles, trouble is the singles are pretty much clones, so i wouldnt want too many.. I added 5 more to my list and converted them from SM bikers, i have scouts with PA legs, but what do i care it saved me £30!! Gc08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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