How to burn worlds or save the day?

[ChaosPhoenix]

The question is simple: planetstrike, how?

 

I think a planetstrike tactics general discussion would be useful, so here it is. I hope you'll add something, because I don't have anything ;-).

 

I have more questions than answers. How to tear down buildings? Melee with Thunderhammers or melta them to glowing pools of steel?

Whats good for a defending player? More units or elite units? What about a lot of tanks since support choices got an upgrade? The attacker needs to have a lot of anti armor firepower, so the tanks could be gone soon but they would draw the fire off the mission objects.

 

And more importantly we need to build 1000pts army lists for our local campaign. I'm lost at such a low point value. I don't know what to take at 1000pts as a Space Marine player. Any advice?

[Eldilar]

Chaos - The first thing I learned from Planetstrike was that the lists for attacker and defender should be radically different. The new force org charts represent this and playing will make it stunningly obvious. I do not believe there will be a lot of "successful" all comers lists for planet strike, but that's just my initial take.

 

Now for some of my early opinions that others may very well disagree with

 

1 - Attackers

 

a) Anything with the Deep Strike rule is now literally 50% cooler than it was before. Being able to assault on the turn you deep strike took already nice units like Assault Terminators and made them nearly devastating. Same goes for Assault Marines and anything else that can "deep strike" and has a propensity for hand to hand. The new Land Speeder Storm will be interesting for setting up flanking/rear/supporting charges with scouts.

 

:tu: Vehicles without deep strike, while useful, become a "lag" in your line. They enter from the table edge, so predators and vindicators and the like are very difficult to bring to bear, especially on larger boards. Most of your army is deep striking in, and they just get left behind. On that same note, transports became far less useful, since you can deep strike all infantry now. Doesn't make them useless, but far less useful.

 

c) I initially thought drop pods might become far less useful, like rhinos but five things help prevent that - Drop pods let you "force" units in on the first turn regardless of rules, via the C:SM. The second thing is the "gun line" interference. You can really maul a defenders lines of sight for his fortified defensive positions by sticking pods in the way. Third is the obvious delivery of Dreadnoughts into an army's face. Add them to a list with multiple terminator squads who get to assault on the first turn, and your dreads will get even more time to do real damage. The locator beacon is my fourth reason, because you can deep strike so much stuff. Drop Pods let you establish forward "deep strike" bases, and you can deep strike all of your stuff, so they really are worth it. Fifth, and final thought on drop pods - They are far more likely to be worth the cost for their weapons in planetstrike. Because the defender is defending static objectives, and you are theoretically smashing into them with Assault squads and assault termies on turn one, and putting dreads behind/in/at the front of their lines, most people don't take time to destroy drop pods. They also don't have the luxury of "just moving away from them" because they are defending static positions more often than not. Deathwinds got a little more useful, and the bolters are just free shots most turns.

 

d) it is my humble opinion that you are given extra elite/Fast attack slots and don't HAVE to use troops for a reason. No one wants a list without utility, but its important to be able to hit, and hit hard. Defenders get extra troop and heavy slots, so you will likely, especially in large games, be facing hordes of troops supported by massive armor elements starting in covered positions or inside bastions (Armor 14 all around) with extra range auto weapons firing in support. The first turn MUST be bloody and violent, because the defender has the advantage once on the ground, especially at range.

 

e) The firestorm has the potential to kill Bastions, Monoliths, Land Raiders, and so on before you touch down and I usually target at least a couple of the big things when we start, but consider this - With all the troops they are likely using, especially bunched up in attempts to form lanes of fire, take advantage of cover, hiding inside structures with lesser defenses...It can be game changing to land 2-3 of those templates on the heads of actual units instead. Just something to keep in mind.

 

I think that is enough on the attackers for now, and many other people are bound to chime in. I'll share some "basic" thoughts on defense later too.

[ChaosPhoenix]

Just a short note. I think drop pods might be useful for protecting your deepstrikers. The defender may shoot on deepstrikers with their AA guns. Shooting on a dop isn't that bad for the passengers, right?

[metcalfedan]

I'd just like to point out that Grey Knights just became A WHOLE lot better.

 

The ability to deep-strike as well as take PAGKs as Fast Attack with Teleport makes them one of the best assault units. Combined with this, the fact the GK Terminators are capable of deep-strike, are Elites and can take Thunder Hammers, makes them great for assaulting the AV14 Bastions.

 

Oh, and Lance Strikes. Nuff Said. :cuss

[Skirax]

1000 point list? I worked out 3 10-man Sternguard, Pedro Kantor and about 75 points of Melta spam for Attacking.

 

Defending: Land Raider Phobos/Crusader/ Redeemer, Lysander, 2 10 man Tactical Squads. Then I75 points for upgrades. Lysander can either ride in the LR which would make a decent counter-attack unit (keep in reserves) or put him with the Tactical Squad to give them Bolter Drill for a volley of bolter shots against someone like 'nids or Orks.

[Grey Mage]

Id like to note that as the attacker vehicular reinforcements are actually just fine- you get to choose your table edge, and rarely will your opponent have a table where youll be more than 18" away from the target. This is an advantage in and of itself.

 

Drop pods arent needed for DS, and wont get you any assaults... but they will make your DSing units that much more secure AND provide cover and potential firesupport. I used three of them in a 2k game and cut off 900pts of IG from the rest do to setup- they simply couldnt cross from one side of their compound to the other and once the DPs were destroyed on 5's those routes stayed blocked. It really gave cover for my TDA and Dreads to do their work.

[Shiro the Betrayed]

for an attacker, i was wondering, if whirlwinds are a good vehicle choise as the dont need Line of Sight, and can keep the enemies heads down

[Grey Mage]

Yeah, I find them wonderful- also great for negating cover saves against IG, Orks and Eldar.... who cares about aegis lines :lol:.

[Brother Hadafix]

Well, me and a friend of mine worked out that, points depending, its possible to field 18 Land Raiders. For those whose Terminator Squads still get vet skills, give them TH/SS and Tank Hunter or Furious Charge, add in the amount AC being fired, and your looking at a lot of rubble and dead enemy.

 

A good defensive loadout is Mine Fields, frag thingys (cant remember what they are called) and Las fences (again, cant remember the name) these slow things down nicely, and can save some hurt from the opening strikes.

[Grey Mage]

Krak Traps and Laser Mazes.... absolutely wonderful defensive measures. And if your lacking AT style firepower theres always power of the machine spirit to increase the BS of your bastions.

[Brother Hadafix]

Krak Traps and Laser Mazes.... absolutely wonderful defensive measures. And if your lacking AT style firepower theres always power of the machine spirit to increase the BS of your bastions.

 

That them, Trenches are good as well.

[Abaddonshand]

Ultimate offensive stratagem against Power Armoured or better opponents, attacker-Imperium specific "Teleport Barrage". Bloody brilliant. Wiped out a unit of havocs with this. As a deathwing player, my second choice would be sustained assault. The look on an opponent's face when my Terminator squad with Banner and Apoth come back the turn after he kills it! :(

[WarriorFish]

I wouldn't have thought that THs would be that great at destroying AV14 Bastions, I'm taking Chainfists and DCCWs with some melta for that. Also, the defender should be very wary of where the attacker will roll his reserves on. Even if you take the Stratagem to force a 2nd choice table edge you can't leave a giant hole in your lines.

 

So no simple defensive structures like the table edge is the end of the world! Krak traps are mean to anything without power armour, and I like the spotter Stratagem too, that could be really useful if you can put it somewhere good (and out of reach ideally). Last but not least, I'm enjoying waving goodbye to my Tactical squads saying "see you in the defending games!" :D

[Hellios]

fear units of 30 gretchin with melta-bombs... 3 sections of the fortress went BOOM. MELTABOMBS = attackers friend <_<

[ChaosPhoenix]

I'll be playing tomorrow and I still can't decide on a 1000pts list. I feel soooo screwed :). I always feel my army is lacking of something at 1000pts. If I take a lot of AV units, I'm short on the Anti-Infantry part and the other way round. I'll update my thoughts later, I think. I haavee to decide.

 

 

How many games are you into planetstrike? or are you lost at preperation like me...?

 

edit:

 

I forgot something. What do you think of Land Speeder Storms in bigger games? Denying deepstrike zones in a deepstrike heavy game doesn't sound too bad, right?

[Grey Mage]

Actually the storm is a really good defensive choice. Id take one as the defender, maybe two, just to screw with my opponent- upgrade them to MMs to go tank hunting.

 

And my group got it early, so were on like game 14-15.

[Coyote]

Here's my defensive 1000pt suggestion:

• HQ:
  • MotF w/Digital Weapons
    
  • 3-man Servitor Squad w/HB
    

Core:

• 5-man Sniper Scout Squad w/Hvy. Bolter
  
• 10-man Tac Squad w/Flamer & Combi-flamer
  

Elite:

• 5-man Term squad w/ML & Chainfist on separate models
  
• Ironclad w/Hurricane & Assault Launchers
  • in Drop Pod w/Beacon
    

Heavy:

• Thunderfire Cannon
  

 

• The MotF goes with the Tac Squad. In this role, he's a CC monster with an xtra flamer.
  
• The Servitors are bait and a meatshield. Period. Place them by themselves. They work nicely on one of your artillery pieces. If they Mindlock, who cares? You get BS 3 when they don't, and in CC they all have powerclaws. The best part is when people ignore them, then find that they have to waste a squad's-worth of shooting to deal with them. Nice!
  
• Scouts go into a cover or around an Aegis Shield, not a building. They need to concentrate their fire. They work best in tandem with the TC. Don't be afraid to go to ground, as a 2+ cover save is always a good thing.
  
• The Tac Squad goes in a strongpoint w/ the Escape Hatch Stratagem. This let's them 'teleport', if needed.
  • If the enemy is close, you might want to have them go up to the roof after the Firestorm, and let the MotF pop someone using his BS5 on the artillery. This also lets the rest of the Squad Rapid Fire into a unit's face.
    
  • If the enemy is hanging back, 'teleport' behind them and open fire. Not as insane as Sternguard, but not bad either. Don't be afraid of CC. With 3x Flamers, you can deal some hurt.
    

  [*]The Term/Beacon combo forces the enemy to deal with the DP, pulling fire off the Ironclad. This is crucial.

  [*]Optimal placement for the Ironclad is in the middle of their line, next to cover or a crater. This lets him deploy INTO the cover, while the DP cuts their line in two. And if you get lucky, you end up next to a Mech that you can hit with the Melta. I've come to prefer the Hurricane Bolter too the regular CC+SB, as it can then RF with firepower roughly equal to a 5-man Tac Squad.

  [*]The TC goes in cover, nowhere near the rest of your forces. A TC is a threat that most lists simply must deal with, and placing it in the middle of nowhere pulls some of the enemy away from your main force. It's nice if TC is close to the Servitors, but that's just a bonus and I don't recommend it as it puts too many eggs in one basket.

  • However, they also work as a good meatshield, if you're worried about the TC being flanked. If you do this, trim 10pts and upgrade to a PC or two. This works better in 1500pts, when you can put a ranged-Dread nearby and threaten a repair.
    

You'll notice that the theme is to appear to have units on the board for the Firestorm. This baits the enemy and then opens them to counter-strike on the 1st and 2nd turns. SM excel at the counter-strike.

 

Hope that this helps and have fun!

[Demoulius]

i too have difficulties deciding on good tactics...

 

im a blood angel player so i have plenty of good elite slots to choice from, but any list i try to make is so tiny model wise im afraid il get blasted to oblivion on turn 1 :D

 

also, defensive lists arent really succesfull either because im leaning towards taking lots of vehicles or units like devastators but i figure my bastions will go kaboom pretty soon since everyone will be bringing melta weaponry of some sort....

 

oh decision decisions....

[GreatEscape_13]

Played a game at our local LGS with a guy who just faced a deep-striking 'Nid force as defender in the game before (he brought scads of specialized defensive terrain pieces so wanted to play defender). My army is pretty heavily deathwing + greenwing so he expected the same from me (Deathwing terminators charging after landing on turn one, rawr).

 

Instead, I fielded an entirely greenwing mechanized force--all of which rumbled on from the drop zone as reserves in vehicles. Caught him by enough surprise that he had to adjust to my actions. His deployment especially was arranged to deal with deep-striking entry (fire lanes set up inside buildings and courtyards, since those were the "safe" deepstriking zones to his view). So my regular Angels in their rhinos had a field day while the "expected" terminators hung out on the Battlebarge playing cards.

 

Like Apocalypse, I think Planetstrike is really good for playing on the expectations of the foe. When they're convinced you're going to do one thing, doing something else is a great plan.

 

Cheers.

[ChaosPhoenix]

Thanks a lot Coyote for your help. I like your list a lot and it gives me an idea of what might work. I came up with a different idea now and to make it complicated I try to work offensive / defensive which a similar, so I don't have to carry a lot of stuff :cuss.

 

Here is one of my offensive examples, please comment:

 

 

HQ

Vulkan He'stan

 

Elite

Ironclad Dreadnought with Heavyflamer/ Melta in Drop Pod

5 Terminators TH & SS

 

Troops

10 Space Marines with Flamer, Multimelta

10 Space Marines with Flamer, Multimelta

 

Which leaves me at 910pts. Now I've got some choices:

 

1. Take a naked Space Marine Squad

2. Exchange Vulkan for a cheaper HQ

3. Exchange the Terminators for Assault Marines

4. Take a Whirlwind

5. Beef the existing choices up with locator beacons, drop pods, powerfists

 

Even if Vulkan is expensive he's providing synergy for the whole army. I'm trying to choose between 4 & 5.

[Wadey13]

Man thats a toughie! 1000 pts planetstrike, its hard aint it you want to get some of the cool stuff in, but then you look back at the list and realise you've got like, 25 odd models!!

 

I think the Attacker is at the advatage in big games and the defender is at the advantage in small ones, anyone else agree?

[Grey Mage]

Id say its actually up to the players armies- Daemons for example are wonderful and fluffy attackers but they are not very good defenders- no matter what the point value is.

[Coyote]

Which leaves me at 910pts. Now I've got some choices:

 

1. Take a naked Space Marine Squad

2. Exchange Vulkan for a cheaper HQ

3. Exchange the Terminators for Assault Marines

4. Take a Whirlwind

5. Beef the existing choices up with locator beacons, drop pods, powerfists

 

Even if Vulkan is expensive he's providing synergy for the whole army. I'm trying to choose between 4 & 5.

No worries. Vul'kan is hugely expensive in 1000pts, but I understand the temptation. But why are you even considering Core at all? Especially if they're gonna have to slog across the board to do anything.

 

My, albeit limited, experience with Planetstrike is that you want things to be pretty much over by the top of Turn 3. Things get too dicey after that. This applies to both offense and defense. I've not yet tested my approach to offense. But, if I was to field Vul'kan, it'd look like this:

Vul'kan

Command Squad w/Flamer, 2x Combi-Melta, & 1x Melta

* Drop Pod with Locator and Deathwind

Dread w/Hvy Flamer

* Drop Pod with Locator

10-man Assault Squad w/ 2x Flamers

* Drop Pod optional, but not preferred

5-man Term Squad w/Hvy Flamer + x2 Chainfists

 

This will let you hit 1 area ridiculously hard, or two spots with a 1-2 punch.

[ChaosPhoenix]

@Grey Mage

You're right Daemons make wonderful fluffy attackers. I wanted to make a Helms Deep like level with Daemons attacking.

 

 

@Coyote

I'm taking core Marines, because of the Multimeltas otherwise I feel like I'll never get them out of those pesky Bastions. But you've got some one-shot Meltapower too. You're right about the walking factor, but I want to let them deepstrike and according to the Planetstrike book every Infantry unit is able to deepstrike or did I get something wrong?

[eyescrossed]

*Sigh* Are you people trying to find power lists for Planetstrike? You shouldn't do pickup Planetstrike games anyway, and besides the jeske and Zhukov, I don't think any of you are WAAC players.