making a new great company

[XKhalilX]

i have enjoyed the space wolves books a lot (minus Wolf Blade stuff, i found that rather boring). I have been thinking of painting space wolves. Now as some of you know and some don't, I don't play, just enjoy painting and fluff.

 

So how plausible is it to form a great company that isn't officially named? Have many actually fallen off from the chapter an striked out on their own? Not in the sense of falling to Chaos (i.e. Skyrar's Dark Wolves) or going rebel (Soul Drinkers, Relictors) but having an outs with the chapter and still remaining loyal to the Imperium?

 

 

if nothing plausible there, I may just make a White Scars geneseed and make a DIY using the up and coming SW bits.

[Sköll Khan]

Fetch me an another ale and a Knarloc drum-stick and i'll indulge you...

 

A "lone wolves" chapter is fluffy.

 

Back in the day, WD245, had an article about "lone wolves",

the idea is that when a new Great Wolf comes to power, some Great Companies or small packs don't return to Fenris to swear new oaths,

they simply continue to fight for the chapter and the emperor.

 

Its pretty open as to their story, so you have a lot of freedom fluff-wise

 

Post up some decent fluff, and i'm sure the Long Fangs here at B&C will give you some feedback.

 

 

The Mighty Skoll

[Captain Talon]

And some chapters do turn renegade...not to Chaos, but they forge pirate empires or takeover distant planets.

 

Some companies have become lost in the warp and never both returning as well.

 

I traditionally play one of those lone companies that aren't one of the current 12.

[clanfield]

also every time a wolflord is slain and replaced he renames the company and takes a new company badge

[Skalver]

Without any means of reinforcement or resupply those companies would find it pretty hard to get by though.

 

If you want to make your own company the easiest thing to do is just make one up, the image showing the Grand Annulus of the Space Wolves and the 12 Wolf Lords of the Great Companies in the back of the codex is dated 8726.M40 which is the year 39,726. Since the current "present" in 40k is the year 39,999 that means that 273 years have passed since that image was created, it is more than reasonable to assume that a couple of the Wolf Lords present on that image have been killed in the intervening years so if you just want a justifiable (within the lore) reason for making your own Great Company that is a perfectly fine way to explain it. You don't even have to make your Great Wolf a successor to one of those listed on that page, you can just as easily assume that your Great Wolf is a successor to a successor since the timeframe allows plenty time for that to happen, thus you can make up a full history without having to claim specifically which of the Wolf Lords listed on that page has died making you very safe within the lore.

 

Interestingly since Ragnar Blackmane is listed on the Grand Annulus in that image it means he has been a Wolf Lord now for around 300 years, possibly longer so it seems unlikely that he is still the youngest Wolf Lord, though it is certainly possible that nobody else was younger when they were made Wolf Lord.

[Marshal Rohr]

Without any means of reinforcement or resupply those companies would find it pretty hard to get by though.

 

I agree with everything you said but this. The Imperium has to have a 'pit stop' for those Chapters who operate far away from their homeworlds. For instance the Black Templars don't have a homeworld, so they would have to have someplace to stop and get more ammo and fuel. I think parking over a Mechanicus world/Armory World and and getting resupplied isn't out of the question, otherwise those Chapters that are on long Crusades and Campaigns wouldn't be able to rearm without returning home.

[Skalver]

Without any means of reinforcement or resupply those companies would find it pretty hard to get by though.

 

I agree with everything you said but this. The Imperium has to have a 'pit stop' for those Chapters who operate far away from their homeworlds. For instance the Black Templars don't have a homeworld, so they would have to have someplace to stop and get more ammo and fuel. I think parking over a Mechanicus world/Armory World and and getting resupplied isn't out of the question, otherwise those Chapters that are on long Crusades and Campaigns wouldn't be able to rearm without returning home.

 

Resupply I am sure they could manage somehow, reinforcement they couldn't. There is a lot about the idea of these lone wolves companies that bothers me, the idea that a Space Wolf company would abandon the fang, forsake their oaths to their chapter and primarch and accept that their geneseed would never be returned to the chapter seems pretty unlikely to me. Getting lost in thw warp or prevented from returning through some other means might be plausible, but then you run into the resupply problem as well, it is hard to justify a situation where rearmament and resupply is viable but for some reason getting back to the chapter is not, especially if you want your backstory to also work well enough that it is reasonable that all the various enemy forces are in the same region. Even something as simple as assuming they can stop at a Mechanicus world to resupply, how can you explain a company that can stop at various imperial worlds to resupply but can't find the time to have an astropath send a message to Fenris that they are still alive?

 

The only really plausible story I can see is the crusade idea something like they used with the 13th company, a company that got lost on some crusade for the chapter and is assumed to be dead (but isn't). You could justify that but it would be hard to explain having recruit units like Blood Claws in a company that has been away from the Fang long enough to be considered lost. You could try to argue that the company brought all the technology to create new wolves with them but the idea of recruits not from Fenris goes so much against the fluff that if you are willing to do that then remaining within the fluff is not a consideration anyway.

 

The chapters like the Black Templers, as part of their fluff, travel in entire Crusade Fleets which include training and forge ships and they still need to set up Chapter Keeps on newly conquered worlds for recruitment. Like it or not from a fluff standpoint the only place the Space Wolves recruit from is Fenris and that is a big enough and important enough part of their fluff that to work around it you need to be willing to stretch things a lot at which point, like I say, fluff adherence isn't a main factor.

 

(Note: If people want to do any of this stuff or make up whatever story they want that is obviously up to them, as long as they are having fun and enjoying themselves it doesn't matter to me, but this thread is specifically discussing what you can do within the fluff so I am assuming that is a constraint, if going outside the fluff doesn't bother you then it doesn't bother me, it's up to each individual to do whatever they want)

[Marshal Rohr]

Without any means of reinforcement or resupply those companies would find it pretty hard to get by though.

 

I agree with everything you said but this. The Imperium has to have a 'pit stop' for those Chapters who operate far away from their homeworlds. For instance the Black Templars don't have a homeworld, so they would have to have someplace to stop and get more ammo and fuel. I think parking over a Mechanicus world/Armory World and and getting resupplied isn't out of the question, otherwise those Chapters that are on long Crusades and Campaigns wouldn't be able to rearm without returning home.

 

Resupply I am sure they could manage somehow, reinforcement they couldn't. There is a lot about the idea of these lone wolves companies that bothers me, the idea that a Space Wolf company would abandon the fang, forsake their oaths to their chapter and primarch and accept that their geneseed would never be returned to the chapter seems pretty unlikely to me. Getting lost in thw warp or prevented from returning through some other means might be plausible, but then you run into the resupply problem as well, it is hard to justify a situation where rearmament and resupply is viable but for some reason getting back to the chapter is not, especially if you want your backstory to also work well enough that it is reasonable that all the various enemy forces are in the same region. Even something as simple as assuming they can stop at a Mechanicus world to resupply, how can you explain a company that can stop at various imperial worlds to resupply but can't find the time to have an astropath send a message to Fenris that they are still alive?

 

The only really plausible story I can see is the crusade idea something like they used with the 13th company, a company that got lost on some crusade for the chapter and is assumed to be dead (but isn't). You could justify that but it would be hard to explain having recruit units like Blood Claws in a company that has been away from the Fang long enough to be considered lost. You could try to argue that the company brought all the technology to create new wolves with them but the idea of recruits not from Fenris goes so much against the fluff that if you are willing to do that then remaining within the fluff is not a consideration anyway.

 

The chapters like the Black Templers, as part of their fluff, travel in entire Crusade Fleets which include training and forge ships and they still need to set up Chapter Keeps on newly conquered worlds for recruitment. Like it or not from a fluff standpoint the only place the Space Wolves recruit from is Fenris and that is a big enough and important enough part of their fluff that to work around it you need to be willing to stretch things a lot at which point, like I say, fluff adherence isn't a main factor.

 

(Note: If people want to do any of this stuff or make up whatever story they want that is obviously up to them, as long as they are having fun and enjoying themselves it doesn't matter to me, but this thread is specifically discussing what you can do within the fluff so I am assuming that is a constraint, if going outside the fluff doesn't bother you then it doesn't bother me, it's up to each individual to do whatever they want)

 

You are right you can only draw from Fenris, but if someone is building a Lost Company it wouldn't be a huge endeavor like building an entire chapter. Basically what I am saying is the models in your Lost Company are the only 'members' of your company. :D

[Valerian]

Without any means of reinforcement or resupply those companies would find it pretty hard to get by though.

 

If you want to make your own company the easiest thing to do is just make one up, the image showing the Grand Annulus of the Space Wolves and the 12 Wolf Lords of the Great Companies in the back of the codex is dated 8726.M40 which is the year 39,726. Since the current "present" in 40k is the year 39,999 that means that 273 years have passed since that image was created.

 

Skalver,

 

I think that you are about 1,000 years off on the timeline. The "current" year in the background is at least 999.M41, which is 40,999 CE. The Current Era began at 001.M1, which would be Year 1.

 

Just FYI.

 

Valerian

[Skalver]

Skalver,

 

I think that you are about 1,000 years off on the timeline. The "current" year in the background is at least 999.M41, which is 40,999 CE. The Current Era began at 001.M1, which would be Year 1.

 

Just FYI.

 

Valerian

 

Yeah, well spotted. I spotted that myself when I went and looked at the BT book to check how they recruited and saw it was all M41, but the Annulus in the SW book is still dated M40 which would mean Ragnar has been a Wolf Lord for going on 1300 years now :D. It must be just a typo in the C:SW book that I unwittingly parotted. I figured nobody would be geeky enough to spot it though lol, so congrats, you can either be very proud of yourself or forever ashamed :)

[Fellblades]

To echo what everyone else has said, it is plausible to have a Wolves chapter not in the original Great Companies. If you look at the back of the SW dex, there is that big stone table with all the Great Company seals on it. If you notice, there is a black stone set in the top right corner, representing those companies which have gone missing or astray. The wolves I play are just one example. Trapped after a lingering warp storm, they were isolated for almost a thousand years without outside contact with the fang. They found a system where they set up a new base of operations, and could recruit and repair and re-arm, with the help of some Ad-mech trapped in the same storm. After a thousand years, they have developed a different culture and leadership system than the original SW, but they are still true to Russ and the All-Father.

[clanfield]

idd also add that fluff wise the wolf lord takes a oath to russ not the great wolf so no oaths broken just a choice not to come back

[Skalver]

To echo what everyone else has said, it is plausible to have a Wolves chapter not in the original Great Companies. If you look at the back of the SW dex, there is that big stone table with all the Great Company seals on it. If you notice, there is a black stone set in the top right corner, representing those companies which have gone missing or astray. The wolves I play are just one example. Trapped after a lingering warp storm, they were isolated for almost a thousand years without outside contact with the fang. They found a system where they set up a new base of operations, and could recruit and repair and re-arm, with the help of some Ad-mech trapped in the same storm. After a thousand years, they have developed a different culture and leadership system than the original SW, but they are still true to Russ and the All-Father.

 

While there is nothing wrong with what you are doing there are some things that would strike me as outside the fluff. Some of the following seem like pretty big stretches to me.

 

First, from the fluff it seems highly unlikely that a Great Company going to battle would have the nescessary technology to maintain and propegate the chapters geneseed with thim, in the fulff this is an incredibly complex task done only at the fang.

Next, you have the problem of creating an area of space that is warp storm isolated but still large enough to have all the opponent races represented, thats a pretty gigantic warp storm that encompasses a pretty large swathe of space. You also have the problem that the warp storm has to be around the region not within it, otherwise even warp travel from system to system would be impossible, and if it isn't then they aren't trapped.

Even if the inside of the warp storm can be travelled you still have to explain how navigators can operate in a region where access to the astronomicon is blocked by surrounding warp storms. If that works then you need to have multiple navigators to keep breeding more to steer the ships.

Then every time your opponents field a named special character for example, or a force that couldn't exist in that region, say a particular eldar craftworld then your army is no longer in accordance with the fluff. If your army is only valid from a fluff compliance standpoint when they are on the shelf and everytime you fight the background you have created no longer works with the forces in play then that isn't entirely ok from a fluff point of view.

 

I would say "in accordance with the fluff" means that it has to not only agree with the SW fluff but also the background you create has to be logically coherent with the entire 40k universe to the extent that you aren't having to do a hand wave over details everytime you meet a special character on the battlefield.

 

Now as with all things, there are degrees of fluff coherence, how much you are willing to gloss over to create an interesting background for your force is a personal thing. I mean, I paint my wolves grey and not blue-grey and it doesn't bother me, to some people that is a huge violation of the fluff and they couldn't conceive of doing it, on the other hand the idea of a great company with the technology and the will to recruit space wolves from somewhere other than fenris strikes me as just as incomprehensible from a fluff standpoint. There is no right or wrong, just different ways to enjoy the game. There is nothing wrong with having to do a bit of hand waving to make an interesting army for yourself but there is nothing wrong with being aware of where that hand waving is going on either.

[Fellblades]

First, from the fluff it seems highly unlikely that a Great Company going to battle would have the nescessary technology to maintain and propegate the chapters geneseed with thim, in the fulff this is an incredibly complex task done only at the fang.

Next, you have the problem of creating an area of space that is warp storm isolated but still large enough to have all the opponent races represented, thats a pretty gigantic warp storm that encompasses a pretty large swathe of space. You also have the problem that the warp storm has to be around the region not within it, otherwise even warp travel from system to system would be impossible, and if it isn't then they aren't trapped.

Even if the inside of the warp storm can be travelled you still have to explain how navigators can operate in a region where access to the astronomicon is blocked by surrounding warp storms. If that works then you need to have multiple navigators to keep breeding more to steer the ships.

 

These are all points that have been brought up when I pull out my fluff, and I have tried to adress them as such

 

1) The geneseed propogation is taken care of by a joint effort of the Priest of the Chapter and the Ad-Mech outpost they saved. The ad-mechs provide the tech, the Priests have the know-how.

 

2) The warp storm that surrounded the system trapped them there for a few hundred years, during which travel was limited to inter-system stuff. However, the warp storm eventually stopped, this is when communication with the rest of the Imperium was re-established. That also takes care of the navigators angle.

 

Feel free to point out anything else, stuff like this helps me refine my fluff

[Brother Tuditanus]

How did they travel, even inter system? If the storm was enough to cut off communication to the Imperium, then, by the same token the Astronomicon would be cut off, no Navigator could direct (if they survived intact in a region cut off by warp storms) and even inter-system travel would slow to about the speed we have today for solar travel, which is to say basically nothing. So... How does that work out?

[Fellblades]

I was under the impression that inter system travel was a bit faster than what you descibe, but I could be wrong. My knowledge of travel methods in 40k is rather limited

[Brother Tuditanus]

I can't quote you anything for certain, but my memory seems to indicate that inter-system travel minus warp drives is not much faster, if any faster, than current stellar travel today.

[Fellblades]

Hmm, I was under the impression that it would take a few days perhaps from planet to planet. Any help on this matter would be appreciated

[Brother Tuditanus]

Ahhhh... Depends entirely on the planet! For instance.. IF we go by modern travel, it takes that to get to the moon, but several months, almost a year, is projected for us to reach Mars, if memory serves...

 

I see no problem with doing it this way, I was just trying to be a Devil's Advocate and bring up another point of possible contention.

[Fellblades]

And thank you for doing so, I'm gonna have to thing about how to work around that little problem somehow

[Brother Tuditanus]

Perhaps you just have your guys make limited shot range warp jumps. IT would be risky, and you'd likely loose some to Chaos or just the Warp, but could allow for things. Though, without a navigator, it's hard to say.

 

Is your system in the 'eye of the storm' in this warp storm, so to speak?

[Fellblades]

Yes, the "eye of the storm" is the concept. They were tasked with rescuing this outpost, they dropped to the planet just as the storm started surrounding the system. It cut off everything outside the system for a few hundred years

[wolf2.3]

If i remember corectly each legion in the great crusade had its own fully independant fleet comlpete with refuel and artificer craft to service the crusers and keep the marines themselves ready for battle. One such splinter fleet belonging to the space wolves could have entered the warp and not emerged untill preasent 40k. they had no idea of this vast time change as the warp does'nt have time as such so they are pretty much as they left. Of course the warp spat them out somewhere else than where they originally wanted to go and so they became lost (ie why they have not yet reported back to the fang) Of course with this it would mean it would be hard to justify having crusaders or other recent "inventions" like land speeders

[KeithGatchalian]

The concept of the lone wolf company is totally within the fluff....as written in that WD article.

 

Sure they could resupply on Forgeworlds. Remember that battle barges etc also have foundries.

 

 

Remember also that Great Companies are larger then normal companies. While the SW Legion was one of the smaller ones, the SW chapter is one of the larger ones, with each GC being about the size of a normal Chapter....

[Marshal Rohr]

A Great Company may be more or less as large as a Battle Company, or much larger. They arn't always bigger and definitly don't nearly reach 1000 marines in strength.

 

 

As with any DIY fluff, if you have to start innovating to overcome your problems it isn't a good idea. And not every member of the Mechanicus knows how to work with geneseed.