Ace Debonair Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 If I've got it right, Barros was one of the chapter's early bigwigs who was later a dreadnought. He got blown up and was the key influence on the exclusive/near exclusive use of the heavier armour on the dreadnoughts. If I've got it right, that is. ;) The polearms thing was my idea, I think. It was meant to be a nod to their leader's weapon of choice, more used for lancing down enemies when charging than standing firm against advancing foes. But I suppose it could easily do both. :devil: I think the line about the Promethean Fists being truly born relates less to the Prometheus aspect and more to the chapter having a bit more punch. Edit: I just realised that last line can be interpreted as a crappy joke. Damn. Sorry. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2057891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Actually my knowledge of pole arms and staffs says that they can be used as aggressive combat weapons too. They can be used to combat two opponents at once or one at a time because you can only block one end at a time. And yes Barros was one of the dreadnoughts the chapter had. As for the line about them being truly born in a sense it means that they finally became the chapter they are now. When I say pole arms I meant spears and halberds or double bladed staffs. I'm not advocating a name change, but adding armor to the dreadnaughts enforced their name?... When I think 'Prometheus', I think of wily, almost tricky, thinking and bringing stuff to mortals...? Why did Argos name them the Promethean Fists?... Other people said it reminded them of flamers and stuff. And in a sense they bring death to mortal enemies, or freedom to the mortals that are loyal to the Emperor. This is also the first time I've heard about the Tau. Did they assist or take advantage of the orks Waaagh! to attack something? Destroy, or Steal something? No the tau did not assist the orks nor did they do any thing during that campaign. but as you should remember the tau did begin to expand their empire. ChaplainMathreyn you have mention things that either no one has noticed, not bothered with, or that is obviously understandable to some. If you read some of the SM books (not sure which ones) one or two do refer to the dreadnoughts as honored brother blah. Does anyone know what the down side to Vulcan's gene-seed is? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2058023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaplainMathreyn Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Actually my knowledge of pole arms and staffs says that they can be used as aggressive combat weapons too. Yeah, thats all good and fine, but you spend a single sentence on it, and even at that all it is is "And the Sergeants use polearms..." What I'm asking is... 'Why'? Where did they come from? Why do they Use them in the first place? If they fought alongside another close-combat oriented Chapter that uses chainswords and bolt pistols, are they going to get funny looks until they prove their capabilities with the strange looking polearms? No the tau did not assist the orks nor did they do any thing during that campaign. but as you should remember the tau did begin to expand their empire. Well... To me it sort of sounded abit halphazard... "Alright, we're going to gain revenge upon the Orks.. Oh,and we're sorta gonna attack the Tau too..." ChaplainMathreyn you have mention things that either no one has noticed, not bothered with, or that is obviously understandable to some. If you read some of the SM books (not sure which ones) one or two do refer to the dreadnoughts and honored brother blah. So... I should look up the Space Marine books that will answer my questions... That's great, but I don't want to know about what's in them... I wanted to know more about the Promethean Fists. I do not have anything against the dreadnaughts being armored... And where did you mention an "Honored Brother" in your IA...? And yes Barros was one of the dreadnoughts the chapter had. Ah, Kk. Maybe add that to the IA... What relation IS Barros to Argos.. A father-figure/Mentor... A good friend/Brother Marine who died in battle and was encased within the Dreadnaught? All I was asking is for you to expand on things... Answer the 'Whys' not just "Oh, and this too." That is all. O'm glad that You know about the Chapter... Now expand on it so that Everyone will know about the Chapter. And don't worry... I'm not saying "That sucks, and you should change it". Just to Expand upon things that you've already written. A) I like the slow, heavily armored dreadnaught idea. Although, do they have a hefty supply of them to replace the ones lost in battle? ;) I like the polearms thing (Heck, a friend's Chapter, the Silver Paladins, uses converted Empire Halberdier weapons for close-combat), but if they use them with two hands, what about ranged weapons? Oh... And as the Salamanders... They used to have overactive Melanchrome glands that changed the recipient's outer appearance as affected by the nature of the planet; ie. Volcano world, Salamanders have unnaturally dark skin, and firey red eyes. The reason for their "slowness" physically, is from the extreme gravity of Nocturne. But other than that, they be clean! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2058119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Templar Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I think Barros may have been the first dreadnought the chapter had. and it is posible for bolt pistols to be used with pole arms before close combat. I mean they could stand there with the halberd in one hand and fire away with a pistol on the other. During the fighting a missile slammed into honored-brother Barros, destroying him instantly. I think that answers your question: And where did you mention an "Honored Brother" in your IA...? And I think the creed at the beginning of your IA is great FireFist. I can easily imagine them saying it before battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2058705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaplainMathreyn Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 During the fighting a missile slammed into honored-brother Barros, destroying him instantly. I figured he was just a Sergeant of some sort... I mean, missiles tend to "destroy" pretty much Everything they come in contact with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2058708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 And I think the creed at the beginning of your IA is great FireFist. I can easily imagine them saying it before battle. Thanks I figured he was just a Sergeant of some sort... I mean, missiles tend to "destroy" pretty much Everything they come in contact with. Yeah I probably should have explained a little more. Otherwise I'll try to work on expanding on what is already in my IA. Recently I've been working on making them unique now I guess i can stop. They are pretty unique. now to expand on it. and what do you think would happen to the skin of a marine if his planet was a desert world with one sun and and a lot of widely scattered oasis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2058720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 My IA has been updated and expanded. I think its all good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2059800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Just re-read the main story again. That seems to be pretty much in order, I think. But a word or two about why they have less scouts than other chapters wouldn't go amiss - it'd be an ideal way to exapnd upon the homeworld section a bit. And just one other little detail caught my eye; there's a bit that says "the Promethean Fists will stay on the field of battle for longer than other chapters." That can be worded better, I think... perhaps something like - "The Promethean Fists will fight stubbornly and refuse to give ground irrespective of the odds they face in battle - usually fighting down to the last marine." That's all I can think of, at any rate. :D Good stuff! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2064047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 ok i need to figure out what classification my planet would fall under. (i.e. civilized, feudal) I'm thinking a total population 0f about 500,000 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2067568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 tweeked some stuff on the home world section hope its all good. input would be appreciated. criticism welcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2072107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Zean Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Word to the wise, be a little more discrete. Plunking down names like Chernobyl breaks suspension of disbelief something fierce. I don't really understand what you mean. and besides the name is staying. Just one battle is a very weak excuse for such changes, not only that, but these changes would be rather limiting to the effectiveness of the chapter. just because one battle is mentioned above doesn't mean they've only had one battle. and how are the changes limiting? brother read the guide to DIYing and pick up a book on SF writing suspension of disbeilf means if you use a name that would have no meaning at all in the 40k universe, whereas in real life Chernobyl was an Area in our world that is covered in radiation after the resultant meldown of a nuclear reactor. and giving a ukrainian name to a planet which has no other ties to the Ukraine. just is... too much to think about and another reader such as myself. Never name something that would have to do with Old Earth. there are Millions of worlds in the Galaxy there are only a few hundred countries on our planet GET CREATIVE. another issue wih the name of the chapter. the Salamanders practice the promeathean cult. and you say the first chapter master of this 19th founding chapter dirived directly from the Salamanders do not practice it still? and Promethean Fists is their name? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2073163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 another issue wih the name of the chapter. the Salamanders practice the promeathean cult. and you say the first chapter master of this 19th founding chapter dirived directly from the Salamanders do not practice it still? and Promethean Fists is their name? Somebody p[lease fill me in on what the Promethean cult is. brother read the guide to DIYing and pick up a book on SF writing suspension of disbeilf means if you use a name that would have no meaning at all in the 40k universe, whereas in real life Chernobyl was an Area in our world that is covered in radiation after the resultant meldown of a nuclear reactor. and giving a ukrainian name to a planet which has no other ties to the Ukraine. just is... too much to think about and another reader such as myself. Never name something that would have to do with Old Earth. there are Millions of worlds in the Galaxy there are only a few hundred countries on our planet GET CREATIVE. Your a bit late on that. (sorry should have been nicer. did not mean to sound mean.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2073496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriarch of the Watch Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Somebody please fill me in on what the Promethean cult is. From what I understand the Promethean Cult is the key stone in the Salamander belief system. Much like the cults of the other Chapters for example The Cult Sanguinius of the Blood Angels, the Promethean Cult is a system of worship and belief followed by the Salamanders and their successors. It preaches self-reliance, self-sacrifice and loyalty to ones brothers and ones Chapter. Many significant icons within the Promethean Cult such as fire, hammers, and the forge are mirrored by the preferred weapons of the Salamanders and their successors, Flamethrowers (fueled by Promethium), Melta weapons (heat based sub-atomic vaporizers) and Thunder Hammers (Power Field Impact Weapon) all being examples. What this means for a successor Chapter particularly one whose initial cadre of officers came from the Salamanders themselves is that a deep connection to the Promethean Cult would be what one expects to see intertwined in the Chapters beliefs. That being said the 40K Universe in a huge place, and worship can very greatly from Chapter to Chapter, even those who share common ancestry. Perhaps if you are not keen on the teaching of the Promethean Cult you should look into developing a reason your marines do not worship Vulkan in the same way as the Salamanders, or indeed if they worship Vulkan at all. However, I don't believe a great deal is written on the Promethean Cult so you could also develop how exactly your Chapter goes about its worship using the Promethean Cult as a foundation for your own unique rituals and prayers. The other thing the Promethean Cult would effect is the Chapter's battle doctrine. I noticed you seem to prefer Lightning Claws over Thunder Hammers, why would this be, what sort of influence caused the Lightning Claw to replace the Thunder Hammer, it's a minute detail but it might add some much needed flavour to you Combat Doctrine section. The Promethean Cult already lends itself to close quarter fighting and flame throwers which you have already described as important to your Chapter. I would caution you from being all of fast and heavily armoured and with strong heavy weapons... it seems to be something of a "We do it all the best" which is really devoid of character. Something to consider might be to emphasize on one of those, maybe two and eschew the others. This would give you the ability to develop a Chapter with more of a flavour, and remember, just because a Chapter prefers a certain type of combat does not mean they are not skilled at the other forms, they do train 20+ hours a day, certainly they would be capable in whatever form of combat is needed. Perhaps the assault troops could be supported by heavily armoured dreadnoughts equipped with powerful long range weapons and tanks such as the Predator and the Vindicator, just an idea. In any case use the Promethean Cult as a way to develop your Chapter's identity, a foundation for the why and why not your Chapter does things. Food for thought. Your a bit late on that. One last thing, and this is just from one newish poster to another. The people on this board for the most part are just trying to help, a simple "Thank you, that has already been suggested" is much more polite then a curt "You're a bit late on that." It's really not a matter of great importance but people are more inclined to help when you are not being rude. If a comment is particularly bothersome to you it's best to simply ignore it and give the poster who bothered you a chance to reread the thread and see his own error. Hope my explanation of the Promethean Cult was good enough. Sincerely, Patriarch of the Watch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2073542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 Patriarch of the Watch: thank you for explaining it to me. I tried to do research on it but kept hitting dead ends. Brother Zean: sorry about sounding mean. I did not mean to sound how it was taken. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2074162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 seeing as no one is posting in my IA. it seems it is finished. if anyone has anything to point out please do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2075871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Well, re-reading that, it seems pretty solid now. At least, I couldn't find any visible flaws. ;) Hopefully the chapters I'm working on will wind up this good - that's an entertaining read you got there. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2076352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 OK I'm going to shoot for getting my chapter into the Liber Astartes. All appears good so I will let you know when it makes it. Edit: Just got the news. its a no go. the codicier should be in to tell me whats wrong. Hmm probably it has to do with HW, CD, beliefs, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2085453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 hmmm I wonder what happened to Sigismund? On the otherhand please somebody find something in my IA that needs fixing. Find something that needs extension. someone anyone!?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2098276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 I'm a little busy in real life with exams at the moment, but I'll try to find a moment tonight to critique these guys. ++Edit++ Here we go... When orks invaded Turthol, Chapter Master Argos himself led the charge alongside the chapter’s dreadnoughts. In the orks first attack the Warboss broke Argos’s power sword. Afterward it’s said that Argos spent the entire night in the company forges with the chapter’s most senior tech-marine. When he emerged he wielded a halberd that had been combined with a bolter placed up towards the blade. Argos reasoned that the bolter could be used both up close and at a distance yet he would still be able to fight with the halberd. He was again ready for war. After weeks of bloody fighting in the rain the orks were finally defeated. Every ork had been killed. During the fighting a missile slammed into honored-brother Barros, the chapter’s first dreadnought, destroying him instantly. It was this event that caused Argos to see that without the extra armor provided by the ironclad, dreadnoughts would never be able to support the assault units on the battle field. This is too much detail for a general section in an IA. An IA is meant to be an overview of the chapter and not get bogged down in lots of little details. It belongs better in a sidebar, which is where you can add little details more easily without detracting from the main theme and flow of the article. Think of an IA as a cake. You need to have a solid base of sponge and dough (do I betray my lack of baking knowledge? :) ) for a cake, it can't just be all icing sugar and decoration. I would also question how the chapter got Dreadnoughts so quickly after its founding. Although greatly shaken by the loss of Brother Barros, chapter master Argos continued to use dreadnoughts in the time-honored manner prescribed by the codex. But after several conflicts with the orks and tau it became apparent that the dreadnoughts were the enemy's first choice of target - frequently employing powerful anti-armor weapons/tactics to destroy or disable them. It was with considerable reluctance that Chapter Master Argos ordered the overhaul of the existing dreadnoughts with additional armor. Now the Promethean Fists chapter was truly born. Tau don't show up until M41. The 17th Founding is before M36, which is when the 21st Founding took place. The planet is poor in natural resources (i.e. oil, lumber) but mines have uncovered vast deposits of minerals. The surface of Turthol is dotted with ruins and oases. The majority of Turthol's population is centered on the few oases large enough to support anything more than a small city. Still a good sized portion of its people chose to travel in nomadic groups or live in small communities near smaller oases. Those that choose to travel as nomads migrate to the small communities and cities when the time comes for the Promethean Fists to recruit from the planets population. You need to explain why the world makes such a good world for Astartes recruitment. The chapter enforces its laws on the planet by sending scouts to patrol the cities. Interesting concept, I'd be interested in a little more detail on why they do this instead of the chapter serfs carrying it out. Right now the chapter lacks a solid core. Thinking of it in terms of cake again... Nah, I won't punish you with my pitiful cake analogies again :P. What the chapter needs is a definite theme. What makes them unique from the other 999 chapters out there? What drives these marines? How has their homeworld shaped them? Are they noble, are they brutal? Right now the article doesn't have a focused drive. It really needs one in order to make the IA a good one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2098853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 ok Ill start editing Immediately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2099369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shangrila Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Can you explain why the Fists' have so few scouts? I'm just curious because a force of marines that prefers to fight up close is more likely to be taking casualties then, say, the Imperial Fists' style of long range combat so more scouts then normal would be needed in theory. It's nothing big but I'm curious. I like your little sidebar about the invasion of Turthol although you seem to be using your old information, as it still has the whole upheaval of tactics after one battle thing that you've gotten rid of. But still I like your chapter and the colour scheme looks nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2099923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 For any who want it here is a link to the gallery for my Promethean Fist models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2110105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hey I've taken a very long time top think and I have come up with a dilemma. Should I change my chapter to a sucsesor of the Aurora chapter or Salamanders? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2175628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Ah, it's been a while. I spotted something in the origins. You seem to have axed brother Barros from the story, apart from one line remarking how the chapter master was saddenned at the loss of Barros. Sorry I haven't got time to read the rest of the article more thoroughly just now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2177659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Just read about your dilemma. My apologies for skipping over it earlier. Think of it like this: What does your chapter gain from being a successor of the Aurora Chapter? What would they gain as a successor of the Salamanders? If one or the other has more points you agree with, run with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173352-the-promethean-fists/page/2/#findComment-2188984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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