500 Guardsmen

[Koremu]

He can hide heavy weapons in his IG squads and not loose much firing potential (in fact, I would say this does a strange maximizing effect where he can missile launcher a rhino then blast the bejesus out of the squad inside with flashlights). With the Combined Squad rule, guardpiles are all the more dangerous. You've already mentioned the classic 50 conscripts vs. terminators (which conscripts are the terminator equivalents in this kind of list).

Unless guard squads work very diferently to how anyone elses do, you can't fire one weapon at the tank and the rest at the contents. All fire from a single squad is simultaneous (barring special rules)

[Prosedragon]

Quick comment - the 500 guardsmen comes from the price of a guardsmen, 5 pts a piece, divided by 2500. Quick and dirty (real dirty) estimate of how many he could field, but thats no hqs, and no heavy or special weapons.

[Prosedragon]

ninja'd by...myself. Internet issues.

[Moonsword]

He has to field one platoon command squad for every five squads of Guardsmen, minimum, and the whole thing needs one HQ of one type or another (for a heavy infantry formation, I'd expect a company command squad).

[DavidKits]

the point of this is not hw he fields how many or such as i stated before i maybe over the top in sheer numbers he has. but the biggest problem i have is he is not a stupid player. he can take out things i try to hide in cover as i do know he has 2 HQ commands with 2 masters of the Ordence who seem to have a terrifying lucky strike of always hitting dead on.

 

as for commissars to answer all comments on them as far as i know he HAS NONE! so i know i need to get into combat quickly as i knwo my marines should in theory eat them all alive. the problem now faces me on how to get said people there in time and not get blown to kingdom come. drop pods seem to be a good idea but leaves me with little protection after.

 

on the comment made by someone of pop with heavy then soak the unit with las fire. I believe what the person meant when he said it is one unit fires blows up my transport rhino while another unit or more open up with there lasguns using first rank second rank.

[Moonsword]

Use some Thunderfires. It doesn't matter where it scatters if you aim at the middle of his force, and the various options for blast types give you some flexibility on targeting until he manages to get something in reach to get rid of them. He's got to be clustered closely with that many models on the board, so break them open before you put your main forces on the table.

 

You also want to thin them out to cut down on the number of cover saves they got - Guard cover from being screened is better than their armor saves, but your cover from it isn't, so he won't care if you get cover against most weapons. The main things that Guard infantry brings that can ignore Marine armor are plasma guns, missile launchers firing krak rounds, and meltas. Only plasma guns are generally used for anti-infantry work, and they've got a 1-in-9 chance of eliminating themselves with every shot. He can't field too many and shoot them every turn before models start getting removed from the table.

[avatar8481]

I played this weekend against a footslogging IG army at 1750 (not 500 guys, but a lot compared to my GK force of 5 tanks and 26 models).

 

I found the best thing to do, given that he was forced to set up him army all in a row across his whole deployment zone was roll up one table edge and just multi-assault with GKT, they would get out of combat after his turn (saving me the shooting) and just charge the next squad over. There was literally nothing he could do except nibble on my Land Raiders.

 

You can't out shoot a Guard army, but you can eat face with ease, that's what I'd do.

[Lynnean]

Khan's tactic works only with dedicated transports, aka terminators in landraider. but, well, you could ''play'' pyromanic DIY Blood Angels, and rip them up nicely with enough assault squads, the Deathcompany and all the other stuffs. ''normal'' marines? templates & multi-shot weapons. something like this:

 

Vulkan He'stan; 190 pts

 

Master of the Forge: Conversion Beamer; 120 pts

 

Tactical Squad(10): Flamer, Plasmacannon, Combi-flamer, Rhino; 220 pts

 

Tactical Squad(10): Flamer, Plasmacannon, Combi-flamer, Rhino; 220 pts

 

Tactical Squad(10): Flamer, Plasmacannon, Combi-flamer, Rhino; 220 pts

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad(6): 2 heavy flamers, 4 combi-flamers, Razorback w/ twin-heavy flamers; 255 pts

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad(6): 2 Plasmacannons, 4 combi-plasmas, Razorback w/ twin-assault cannons; 265 pts

 

Servitors(2): 2 Plasmacannons; 85 pts

 

Ironclad Dreadnought: 2 Heavy Flamers, Drop pod; 185 pts

 

Assault Squad(10): 2 flamers, sergeant: powerweapon & Stormshield; 240 pts

 

Assault Squad(10): 2 flamers, sergeant: powerweapon & Stormshield; 240 pts

 

Landspeeder Squadron(3): 3 heavy flamers, 2 tornado heavy flamers;

 

Ironclad Dreadnought: Hurricane Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Drop pod; 175 pts

 

Whirlwind: 85 pts

 

Whirlwind: 85 pts

 

total: 2500 pts

 

what about that?

[Justicar Crucius]

if you were using BA, i would suggest baal predators with heavy flammers nothing says troop killing like tl acs and heavy flammers

[Captain Idaho]

Regardless of the exact numbers of the force (300, 500, its still more than an amount easily countable e.g. 10!), I think playing aggressively is the only way to win with Space Marines against such numbers. Attrition will make it inefficient to go toe to toe at range.

 

A strong base of infantry, large enough to take casualities for a few turns, is a must. This allows you to last long enough to get close and initiate a few multiple combats, attack several squads all at once with a single unit. 10 Spacemarines can actually kill off 20 guardsmen in close combat fairly easily, while a unit of Honour Guard can probably kill off about 5 units of Guardsman in a single charge!

 

And if the opponent uses a few hidden Commissars to protect the guardsman from morale based destruction, you aren't being shot in the following turn.

 

Fast and aggressive, that's the way forward against such an army.

[avatar8481]

A strong base of infantry, large enough to take casualities for a few turns, is a must. This allows you to last long enough to get close and initiate a few multiple combats, attack several squads all at once with a single unit. 10 Spacemarines can actually kill off 20 guardsmen in close combat fairly easily, while a unit of Honour Guard can probably kill off about 5 units of Guardsman in a single charge!

 

You know what else lets you get close enough? Vehicles. LR Term squads for the T2 charge. Heck, even rhinos can get guys into combat on turn 2. trying to footslog against a horde army is a total loser of an idea, got to be in your little plastic boxes so you don't die.

[metcalfedan]

got to be in your little plastic boxes so you don't die.

Don't you meat METAL BOXES!?

 

If he likes to bunch his guardsmen together. Can't you go with a couple of Vanguard squads, DS them, then charge multiple units at the same time? - engage as many guardsmen in combat as possible...

 

Then you can use the remainder of points on tacticals and shrike and fleet them forwards :)

[Hellios]

hmmm If these are friendly and your allowed FW and the like get 1 or two DS missile pods (Whirlwind launchers not assault cannons) then sit about laughing, on that note if your going to ds maybe some ironclad dreads (to survive shooting, with luck) in drop pods with locator beacons, vanguard coming in later can use heroic intervention and if your lucky be close enough to use the beacons (try and kill the guys that effect your reserves quickly if that stops their rules from working) and again if FW is allowed then seige dreadnoughts with the Inferno cannon might be worth it... just burn his command squad out... and its a template weapon so no cover from trees or men in the way unless you can't get LOS. Then all your tacticals can come down in drop pods right in his face, if he decides to start off the board against a drop army it makes no difference just don't send your deathstorm in first :P and keep soft targets away from his board edge because you don't want them smushed by a deathstorm (dreadnoughts and drop pods are fine :D)

[icallitsoda]

whirlwinds. as many as you can get.

[Spacefrisian]

3 Ironclads with Lucius pattern pods. Drop infront of him and start charging in. If he is thinking smart by putting 50 Guardsmen together you have tied up 50 guardsmen. Multiplie this by 3 than it gets to 150 guardsmen.

 

Just make sure you add some other pods in the list like 2 more and you can do this on Turn 1.

[Corpse.]

Tank shock through entire platoons.

 

Trust me, he will be forced to grant your lower laying vehicles 4+ obscure saves shooting through his own men. There will be that much blockage if not enough LoS blocking to completely stop his guns from seeing your vehicles.

 

Rhinos are the easy ticket to winning against that sort of horde. Get your marines into melee and they will fall one after another eventually. Your strongpoint is making them take as many LD checks as possible and staying within 6" to make sure they keep running. Tank shocks will make sure they are forced out of the way and keep near the fleeing troops.

 

If you force 8 LD checks, 3 should fail. Each of his troops are 50+ points, more then what the rhino would cost. Get 6 Rhinos in his lines, you should be able to force 16 LD checks considering how bunched up he is. Eventually you will have half his army fleeing before turn 4. The rest caught in melee, and perhaps worse. (Being caught trying to flee from marines = destroyed unit)

 

Just keep at it.