Land Raider Crusader

[Fellblades]

Alright, so brothers, I play a mostly Mech list, 4 rhinos, 2 BC packs, 2 GH packs, Whirlwind, dakka Pred, VD, WGBL (cheap CC), RP, and a few attack bikes. Making the move up to the 2500ish point area, I'm considering adding a LRC to my force, using it as a comfy ride for a full strength BC pack with an IC. Anyone have experience with this idea, does is usually survive long enough to deliver its payload of death into the enemy lines, or is it too big of a fire magnet?

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

I dont tend to take LR's in my lists due to amount of Melta I have seen appear. However I feel a comeback for my Crusader in planetstrike games to support my Wolfguard assault. If I was to take them in a normal game I would probably take two and fill them with 13+ Bloodclaws for a double beserker bomb. I recently fielded a full strength BC pack with IC in a LRC during an Apoc game, I used flank march and vital objective to march this bad boy onto a back field objective to claim the day, there was much merry making and mead drinking afterwards!

[Fellblades]

I dont tend to take LR's in my lists due to amount of Melta I have seen appear.

 

Good point, but my usual opponents are IG, orks, necrons, and occasionally Tau, so theres not much melta there. But a valid point, one I should have addressed in my first post. I see the LRC being the sledgehammer of my force, not many units in the game can take the pounding of 15 BCs and an IC, so it will be deliving the blow to the heart of the enemy line, I'm just not sure if others have had much succsess with them, against the armies I listed in particular. The IG army might not have alot of melta, but its got plenty of ordanance and lascannons.

[muzzyman1981]

The Wolf of Fenris, my Land Raider Crusader, has had it's share of fire but overall it has had great success delivering Wolf Lord Blackmane and his merry band of Blood Claws straight into the enemy's teeth.

 

Also think of it this way, yeah it may draw alot of fire but that's fire that isn't being directed towards your lighter stuff OR it's ignored due to people not wanting to waste the shots which gives it free reign to run rampant on the field.

[Vassakov]

An LRC combined with Blood Claws on it's own will not make it to a competent enemy, as they will melta/lance/Lascannon it off the board.

 

In a Mech list though, it is a potent tool as it can either draw fire from other units, or they will spilt their fire and achieve very little overall. It is a delivery vehicle, but with a potential charge of 20" from a BC unit it can be quite easy to set up a T1 charge.

[OnlyInDeath]

I have played mech wolves for years now, and the LRC is the centerpiece for my army. Yes, it draws a lot of fire, but it can shrug off just about anything it takes (even a railgun must roll 4+ on armor pen to do anything to it). And while there's more melta in the game, there's a couple points to consider:

 

1. meltas are effective at 12/6" respectively. Over that they are just a str8 weapon with a max armor pen of 14 (only a glance to a LRC). With the raider, you can move 12", disembark up to 2", and charge 6". This gives you the ability to move the unit inside up to 18", and you can shoot up to 3 diff units with the LRC (2 units because PotMS) and the pack inside, and then do a nice little multi unit charge (in my last game on sat I was able to charge 4 different IG veteran guard squads, wiping them out to the man).

 

2. Cover is much better in 5th ed, and I cant tell you ho many shots I've shrugged off just by being sure to use smoke or terrain to the fullest advantage.

 

In all honesty, if you take extra armor (I always do, and am always glad that I do (last 2 games I was "stunned" a total of 4 times, and being able to still move in any direction i wanted full speed is key)), you dont really have to worry about glances too much. And even lascannons and meltas at long range arent all that much of a hazzard, as lascannons still need to roll a 5 after hitting to do much, and anything short of immobilizing or wrecking the crusader doesnt mean much. Lance weapons are your only real threat, and even then, it's not like the world is over flowing with eldar players, and even then, there's such variation there that it isnt a sure thing that they will field them (tho honestly, mech gets hit hard by eldar typically). I'll put it this way: against the shooting from an entire necron army (at 2k pts) including heavy destroyers, and then in the very next game against 2k of IG with about 6 lascannons (veteran wielded), 6 meltaguns (veteran wielded), 2 LRBTs and 3 Basilisks pouring fire into it, even twin linking the lascannons, it was stunned (reduced to shaken) 4 times, and weapon destroyed once (lost the TLAC against the crons) and in both games it delivered the BC's + WP inside to devastate my enemy. It then ran rampant in the enemy's backfield, providing cover and some mean firesupport to the exposed claws. In the end, with anything worse than a lance (which has a 50% chance to do dmg), your opponent has to roll really well to take down a landraider of any sort very fast. Yes, it happens some times (I've lost it on turn 1 before), but when that happens, you are forced to learn to improvise, which isnt a bad thing at all.

 

In the end, if you are playing a mech force, at least one landraider of any variant is almost required at 2500 pts, and I think the LRC is the perfect choice. That being said, the rumors of a new all AC landraider in the upcoming dex might be an even better choice!

[ahorsecalledwar]

OnlyinDeath set me up with a list that included a crusader and after many games i droped it for a standard LR.

Just felt it working for me better

[OnlyInDeath]

Sure, send me a PM and I'll send you my standard 1850 list later today

[WG Vrox]

I find one of the more effective ways to run a LRC is having a Rune Priest inside casting Storm on the Raider the whole way to its delivery point. For horde armies I have seen the tactic used often of glancing the thing to death and when 50% of the glances/penetration hits get ignored outright it gives you a much better chance of getting where your going. Also pay for the extra armor, PMSB, and MM, when your that deep into the point cost the insurance is well worth protecting your investment.

 

WG Vrox

[Fellblades]

Thanks everybody for the great replies, especially OID (throws him an ale), i think the LRC is just what my army needs right now. Now i just gotta finsh putting together 3 more rhinos, an ironclad, and than go buy the LRC and BCs. Ouch, thats gonna take a while. I think I'm gonna run them with a RP inside for the Storm, so i can laugh off all those pesky lascannons

[Bulywyf]

My opponents have nicknamed my LRC "The Death Chariot". Two reasons, one the amount of pure destruction that is unleashed by this beasts firepower. The second, I rarely lose my LRC. The only times I have lost it, my opponent focused all of his fire into it. While he was able to kill it, the rest of my army proceeded to slaughter him. Either way, my LRC delivers. Also, IMHO the only way to field the LRC is with a full compliment of BC's. With these berserks charging out, there is very little that will last in CC.

[ahorsecalledwar]

Right scrap what i said about the normal land raider just got back from my local game evening and have had massive fun with my redeemer winning 2 out of 3 games ( IG, Marines win, Sisters i lost).

Running a RP with a redeemer = win

[Korhal Ragingspirit]

I love my Crusader and rarely make a list that doesn't include one. You can't go wrong with its armor and fire power plus a 15 man blood claw pack with an HQ of your choice. I take a Ven Dread for its ability to reroll for first turn which usually secures it. I then roll up as far as I can and pop smoke and watch my opponent bite their nails because they know whats coming next turn. My usual list for higher point games includes 2 LRC's are 1 LRC and 1 Redeemer plus a Vindicator.

[Grey Mage]

I use an LRC as my main spearhead in 1500-1850 lists sometimes. Runs 500pts with MM and 3 powerfists... no IC. Sometimes Ill throw in a wolf priest for the I attacks, if Ive got no other handy place for HQ#2.

 

It works pretty well. At less than 2k if you have enough armor on the board the enemy has to make a hard choice- stop the pain they know is going to be coming, or stop the rhinos, dreads, and artillery thats also moving up and/or pounding his lines.

 

Alot of people just cant commit enough firepower to take it out... they just have to take pot-shots at your smaller stuff. On the other hand its so big, and so there.... they have to try to hurt it... and so theyll probly not have enough AT to deal with all your other vehicles in a timely manner.

 

Of course, if your up against a competent player with a balanced list who knows what this unit can/will do they can certainly minimize its impact... but in general itll make its points back 4/5 times.

[Demogerg]

I dont like fielding just 1 Land Raider, it gives your enemies antitank one good target to focus on. fielding 2 is much more effective.

 

Also, the squad inside is great with 11 or more blood claws, I like to run it as 11-14 Blood Claws with 3 Powerfists, a Wolf Guard Pack Leader with a Thunderhammer, and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader with a Frostblade and Stormshield.

 

For 1850 Ive won a couple of tournies with a list like this...

 

Land Raider Crusader

11 blood claws, WGPL, WGBL

 

Land Raider Crusader

11 blood claws, WGPL, WGBL

 

Rhino

9 Grey Hunters, Ragnar

 

Vendred

 

Wolf scouts with meltabombs

 

 

And i did pretty well at 'ard boyz this year with the following list (would have taken first place at my store with 20 people playing, but I failed to get even a single result on the damage table with over 20 multimelta shots, 6 lascannon shots, and at least 20 sets of assault cannon shots into a battlewagon in round 2, over the course of 6 turns I put all my firepower into it and it did not go down.)

 

Land Raider Crusader

11 blood Claws, WGPL, WGBL

 

Land Raider Crusader

11 blood Claws, WGPL, WGBL

 

Land Raider

6 Grey hunters

 

Land Raider Crusader

Ragnar, WGBL, WG bodyguard, Wolves

 

Wolf Scouts with meltabombs.

 

 

The Frostblade attacks at I5 cut down most enemies before they get their swings, the weight of regular attacks do good at thinning the heards of horde armies, the powerfist attacks suckerpunch enemy ICs, Vehicles, MCs, etc. and the Thunderhammer keeps the vehicles shaken and MCs attacking at I1 if you fail to kill on a multicharge. This unit build is terrifying for my opponents when set inside a crusader.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

I have had success fielding a single raider in 1500 and 2000 point lists. In general, I have found that most armies (lance heavy eldar and railgun heavy tau aside) struggle to hurt them if you keep them moving. Meltaguns are very effective, but the range is very close, and, worse case scenario, the raider gets smoked leaving your assault unit within comfortable charge range to gain revenge. Particularly with PoMS, all raiders can also throw out quite an impressive amount of fire while on the move, particularly aimed at units that can hurt them.

 

I also find that they cause an unreasonable amount of fear, and opponents will often go out of their way to try and neutralise it. If you have a balanced list, this should mean much of the rest of your force can get into a good position with little challenge. Two raiders is undoubtedly fun, but will almost guarantee you a loss against an opponent kitted out for it. To be fair, if your opponent is ill equipped to deal with a LR at all, two will give them a real nightmare. On balance though, my experience is that in 2k or less one LRC or LRTLLC gives you a rock hard unit which won't lose you the game if it is destroyed as you have enough remaining force to compete.

 

I would also put a good word in for considering a godhammer build land raider first. It has some advantages and disadvantages of the crusader, but I think is generally more effective when fielded on its own because of its TLLC armament. However, I think the crusader seems more appropriate to Space Wolves, so go with whatever you think will complement the rest of your army better. In smaller games, I tend to field a crusader alongside razorbacks and a godhammer to lead rhinos. This seem to give you the best of both worlds either way.

 

As a final thought, 15 Blood Claws with an IC coming out of a LRC into the heart of an enemy, engaging every unit they can reach, is Space Wolves at their very best... Direct, Bloody and very difficult for any opponent to stop :)

[eyeslikethunder]

The Wolf of Fenris, my Land Raider Crusader, has had it's share of fire but overall it has had great success delivering Wolf Lord Blackmane and his merry band of Blood Claws straight into the enemy's teeth.

Surely ragnar should be with your grey hunters(bolt pistols) or wolf guard as his ability to give +2 attacks on the charge is wasted on the BC's. Anyway back to the subject

 

I have found the LRC very reliable tank two or three can be even better(if only we could have blessed hulls those lances would dealt with as well)

[Evilbob]

Just tonight I lost my LRC for the first time, destroyed by a Soul Grinder. But my friends soon found that it's a pinata of death, as the 15 BCs and IC inside poured out. I like the land raider in general as long as I have other tanks. Currently in my 1500 I have a LRC and 2 Razorbacks with lascannon and twin plasma guns. Lots of armor to make them choose what to shoot at.

[Quillen]

Indeed. I have used a LRC in all of my lists for the lest 4 years and the Blood claws in it win the day every time. Even when people know what it is. AL 14 all around smoke and Machinespirit means it gets them where they need to be, and usually lives to kill some stuff on it's own.

 

If they do manage to get really lucky, I still have drawn so much fire that I usually win the opening and can roll the mid-game.

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

My experiences with a LRC are good ones. For me it does one of two things (usualy).

 

1. It obsorbs incomming fire (at worst losing a couple of weapons) and when it comes into range of enemy lines, descorges 14 bloodclaws and a wolfguard battle leader in terminater armour into the closest target.

 

2. It takes everything my opponant can throw at it before being destroid leaving afformented units very ticked off at having to walk, and my units in rhinos dont have to worry about anything becouse nothing else can hurt them.

 

So the most important thing to remember is to support it with other mobile infantry.