Stormtrooper Cost Comparison

[Adir]

I got to thinking this morning about how DH/WH stormtroopers compare as troop choices to other similar army lists.

 

Here is the comparison I came up with:

 

DH Stormtrooper squad

x10 w/sergeant + thunderhammer; plasma gun; meltagun

Rhino w/extra armor + smoke

Total: 213 pts

 

IG Vet squad w/grenadiers

x10 w/sergeant + power fist; plasma gun; meltagun

Chimera

195 pts

 

C: SM Tactical squad

x10 w/sergeant + power fist; plasmagun; multi-melta

Rhino w/extra armor

260pts

 

I realize this is not an apples to apples comparison. It is more meant to compare similarly equipped units.

 

Compared to the IG vet squad there is an 18 pt negative differential. Broken down across 10 models, DH pays 1.8 pts more per model than IG.

 

Compared to the SM tactical squad, there is a 47 pt positive differential, with C: SM playing 4.7 pts more per model than DH.

 

Looking at this comparison, the stormtroopers are actually a fairly cost effective troop choice compared to comparably equipped troop choices from other books.

 

IG vets come out a little ahead in this comparison, but the fact that stormtroopers can be taken in variable squad sizes and the ST sergeant has access to a wider range of wargear means that the unit as a whole is slightly more flexible than their guard troop counterparts.

 

Even at 4.7 pts more the new C: SM marines are obviously a more cost effective troop choice (better stat line, special rules, etc.). However, given that C: SM is the poster child codex, our DH stormtroopers compare pretty favorably on a point for point basis.

[valincius]

Okay this is a debate that has been a few times, but that was a long time ago when i was posting alot. The facts are these, for the extra points I really do believe that Space Marines get a way better bang for their buck. Simply put they are more durable, better save, and can provide a variety of loadouts for different roles. They key differences are in stats, plain and simple. For 5 points more they get.. an extra toughness, strength, and weapon skill. For 5 points, they are a far greater troop choice as well as the fact that they can do a variety of roles well I believe that storm troopers are somewhat limited. One of the advantages you point out is actually a weakness from my perspective. The trick to Storm troopers is there are cheap, and in a Grey knight army especially, this is extremely useful when it comes to having scoring units. The ability to loadout a sergeant with all kinds of sick gear is tempting, but I advise against a sergeant at all, the point is you want a mobile, roleplaying squad. I love using them as tank hunters and/or as plasma loadouts for blocking purposes. This way they for a smaller amount of points then their Space Marine counterparts can do a role. While not as well as them it is possible in a good list with a good hold on strategy for Inquisition that they can be extremly useful but point for point there just is not a comparison to their space Marine counter parts because A) they dont match up and :cuss they provide different things for different armies(I mean in terms of point cost and role). I sill believe that storm troopers are fair, and a good troop choice but I think that they pale in comparison to their power armour brothers. Good input though and I'd love to hear from IG players about the comparison on roles as I think thats a great discussion as is the power armour one.

[glayvin34]

Are you taking into account the hot shot Hellguns from the new guard codex? They make a huge difference when fighting MEQ due to the AP 3. Also, WH Veterans can't take the Thunder Hammer (not in the codex) but they can take an eviscerator which would have a similar tank-hunting purpose.

 

All in all, though, I can't get over the lack of heavy weapons in a ST squad, the free missile launcher that I get with the SM Tac squad is also one of my most effective light vehicle killers. I try to fire as many krak missiles as I can each game.

[Daedalus Templarius]

Are you taking into account the hot shot Hellguns from the new guard codex? They make a huge difference when fighting MEQ due to the AP 3. Also, WH Veterans can't take the Thunder Hammer (not in the codex) but they can take an eviscerator which would have a similar tank-hunting purpose.

 

All in all, though, I can't get over the lack of heavy weapons in a ST squad, the free missile launcher that I get with the SM Tac squad is also one of my most effective light vehicle killers. I try to fire as many krak missiles as I can each game.

 

This is one of the reasons I switched over to SM with inducted GK, you just have a lot more versatility with your troops given those heavy weapons. I can't dismiss a 5pt plasma cannon which can wipe out half of a squad of death company (which it did in my last game), or the fact I can get a extra cheap lascannon.

 

I love my GKs, but I want something tough and versatile to hold those objectives.

[jakehunter52]

Yep, I think you pretty much have it. DH once again proves it is the most difficult army to play because of inherent disadvantages. And just the whole concept of Stormtroopers being troops of the line have been blown to bits with the new IG codex, cover rules and durable transports. But don't think that =I= stormtroopers are useless. Where else can you take a group of 5 guys and give two of them plasma and then Deepstrike them? Or put them in a rhino with two meltas instead? They do well when given a specific mission but become very inflexible when forced into other situations. Just means you have to be aware and they'll do you good. And look super cool doing so (I absolutely love the Kasrkin models, they were the first 40K models I bought). As a side note, has anyone noticed that GW is only selling the old Stormtroopers now instead of the Kasrkins? And any idea why?

[Hellbreaker]

As a side note, has anyone noticed that GW is only selling the old Stormtroopers now instead of the Kasrkins? And any idea why?

 

They are? Odd, but I guess the Kasrkins are way too cool for their slow "flashy" site... Damn them for changing! :)

 

I'm pondering the idea of adding some stormtroopers into my WH army actually, but that'll be in the future when I can afford the stuff. :P

I like them, they do well and can put out some serious fire power if needed... (Plasma, grenades etc)

And they look cool(especially custom made ones!)

 

Compared to marines =][= stormtroopers win on the following points:

1. They're cheap

2. They're good at being annoying douche bags fragging the opponent

3. They're not space marines

 

They are far superior than marines due to #3... Because I hate marines with a passion. :P They're good basing material however...

 

Cheers!

[Inquisitor =D=]

Personally I love those Stormtroopers, I really do. Lol...

 

My singular gripe is that the kasrkin are difficult to convert... been trying to add powerfists into the group. ;)

 

=]D[=

[Leethal]

Since this thread is already about the Stormtroopers, are IST faq'ed at this time? Or...would I just be better off playing with the new IG STs if I wanted something to mow down Marines?

[Chengar Qordath]

Since this thread is already about the Stormtroopers, are IST faq'ed at this time? Or...would I just be better off playing with the new IG STs if I wanted something to mow down Marines?

ISTs use the profile in their own Codex, not the one IG stormtroopers have. It's not like Inquisition gear and units working differentely from everyone else's is anything new.

[Wrath]

Since this thread is already about the Stormtroopers, are IST faq'ed at this time? Or...would I just be better off playing with the new IG STs if I wanted something to mow down Marines?

ISTs use the profile in their own Codex, not the one IG stormtroopers have. It's not like Inquisition gear and units working differentely from everyone else's is anything new.

 

My understanding is that new IGST use hot-shot lasguns, while ISTs use Hellguns. Besides, ISTs have always been more like IG Grenadiers than proper IGSTs both in abilities and battlefield roles, no?.

[Lord_Zyplon]

As a side note, has anyone noticed that GW is only selling the old Stormtroopers now instead of the Kasrkins? And any idea why?

 

Games Workshop still has the Kasrkin under 40k armies ---> IG --> elites... at least for the US "version" of the site.

 

 

That said, there's little point in comparing the Inquisitorial Stormtroopers to the new Guard ones - they no longer fulfill the same role. The Hotshot lasguns cater more towards an offensive role.

[Chengar Qordath]

Since this thread is already about the Stormtroopers, are IST faq'ed at this time? Or...would I just be better off playing with the new IG STs if I wanted something to mow down Marines?

ISTs use the profile in their own Codex, not the one IG stormtroopers have. It's not like Inquisition gear and units working differentely from everyone else's is anything new.

My understanding is that new IGST use hot-shot lasguns, while ISTs use Hellguns. Besides, ISTs have always been more like IG Grenadiers than proper IGSTs both in abilities and battlefield roles, no?.

The wargear entry for the hot-shot lasgun refers to it as a hellgun, so it's quite likely the exact same thing fluffwise.

 

ISTs and old- IG codex Stormtroopers were almost exactly the same; except that Elite-slot IG Stormtroopers could buy infiltrate or Deep Strike at an additional point cost while ISTs could buy Rhinos. Of course, fluff-wise ISTs are just IGSTs that got snatched up by the Inquisition, so it makes sense that they would be just about exactly the same.

 

It will be interesting to see how the new Inquisition codices deal with ISTs when they eventually come out since it would be hard to justify not giving them hellguns. Thousand Sons already demonstrate that GW is willing to give out Troops choices that have AP 3 weapons, but the price hike for an AP 3 weapon makes them more expensive and more specialized, which kills two of their big advantages in Inquisition armies (cheap and versatile).

[KhorneHunter57x]

I hope that GW will not give =][=STs the new Hot-Shot Lasguns because I think that one of the main purposes of =][=STs i s medium-range fire support of GKs/GKTs/Seraphim/Arcos/Repentita units. Because the Hot-shot version has a shorter range, that would remove that use. I have both IG and =][= armys with Storm Troopers and I have found that where in the new IG storm troopers are best used in deep-striking objective-clearing units, =][=STs fill a need for cheap troops.

 

I feel that the =][=ST is a better points value, both for the weapon range and the points cost.

[Leethal]

Honestly, Hot-Shot Las is nice....

 

But I liked the old IST models. All different, customizable, and junk.

 

Perhaps the Inq. can get henchmen squads (old ISTs) and still get the new STs.

[Vedrial]

I'm planning on using a unit of IST's allied in with a C:SM army. Why? Because when you can get models that look as cool as these guys led by this guy, how good they are on the tabletop matters very little.

 

Although, being able to give any unit 2 plasma guns and a combi-plasma at BS4 is hardly ever a poor investment, and put them into a transport that's sporting a multi-laser, a heavy bolter, and a storm bolter... I'll take it.

 

I do hate paying the extra points for the Chimera, but that's why me and my friends use the IG Chimera profile for Daemonhunters in friendly games.

[Gaeus Marius]

I'm planning on using the Stormtroopers as the core Troops choice for my army. They are cheap, can hold an objective fairly well, look cool, and can provide exellent support for units of GK and Terminators. Give them the special weapon options and they can hold thier own quite well in almost any situation. The Vet. SGTs are a good choice as well.I actually had one hold out against an entire SM assault squad all by himself for 4 turns! he even killed 3 out of the 5 of them single-handed. I've got to give props for that, even though I was playing the Marines....

[Hellbreaker]

I actually had one hold out against an entire SM assault squad all by himself for 4 turns! he even killed 3 out of the 5 of them single-handed.

 

You see... Marines are only good as basing material... They die to storm troopers... >_>

 

I guess bad rolls were in play?

 

Anyhow, I would like stormtroopers to become Elite actually, since my army will consist of mostly battle sisters... <_<

 

So 2 units of stormtroopers and 1 unit of arcos... Perfect!

 

Or if they're troop... 4 units of battle sisters, 2 units of troopers... 1 Inquisitor... And the arcos! Even better! O:

 

Cheers!

[Wrath]

I'd be happy if they changed the Troops version to Inquisitorial Grenadiers, and moved the Inquisitorial Stormtroopers to the Elite section (and gave them Infiltrate and Deep Strike capabiliities). Both should keep Carapace, higher Leadership, and BS4, but the former should stick with current-model Hellguns and the latter should get the new Hot-Shot Lasguns. Let them both keep the current special weapons options.

 

That way you wind up with line troops who have useful range on their guns and can hold a position well, as well as surgical attacking units for getting in close and shooting up the enemy in a quick assault. Two different roles that fit the two different weapon profiles.

[Justicar Valius]

I personnaly like stormtroopers with an inquisitor without retinue on an objective and find that them going to ground can annoy my opponent horribly. I played a game recently and he went what! they can shoot 24 inches! nehehehehehe.

 

Also i bought the old cadian set (it had 20 guys for £18 rather than 10 guys for £12) and i use them as stormtroopers! yeh i know a bit cheap but add some inquisitorial symbols and it works just fine :lol: