Brother-Librarian Hesperos Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I am a DA player really wanting to better understand my chapter. I have heard many different stories. The lion and Russ fought together many times. Are the friends or did they loathe eachother? Do their respective chapters still hold to that relationship? My latest theory is that by the end and even more so now they are practically brothers. Ragnar knowing the DAs secret and telling nobody. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 from what i remember, yes they fought to the death, ALOT. but each was never able to kill each other, and over time, grew to respect each other. they would be counted as friends, but due to their oaths of vengeance against each other, would start out each meeting with a duel. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2049681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valinov Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 From what I've understood the Space Wolves arrived at system due for conquer, the inhabitants of the planet insulted the Space Wolves honour and while they were preparing for an attack the Dark Angels came out of nowhere and did the job for them. The Lion slayed the leader of the inhabitants and stood over his body when Russ arrived. His honor sullied and his chance for revenge taken from him Russ engaged the Lion in an honorary duel, the duel lasted long but was abruptely paused when the Lion threw Russ into a table (Might be vice versa) and Russ started laughing at what the futility of what they were doing. The Lion took the laughter as an insult and popped Russ on the head, knocking him out. When Russ woke up the Lion and his angels were long gone. Ever since this event the two legions have had a rivalship and when they meet honorary duels like the one aformentioned have been fought, many have been bloody (I am not sure if they fought to the death however). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2049887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 This has been done to death, Anyway the SW and DA together went to a planet where the ruler called Russ the emperors lapdog. Russ was angry and wanted to storm the palace/. Lional said no as he had planned the assualt carefully. When they attacked the SW were caught up in a swirling melle and Russ could only look on whilst lional slew Durath the planets leader. Afterwards Russ walked up to lionel and they astrted fighting after a while day and night of fighting with neither besting the other Russ started laughing and seeing honour satisfied walked off. Lional was slow to to forgive and walked up to Russ and sucker punched him (DA will disagree) and Russ was unconcious. There was another fight where they were late to terra as Russ stopped off to help a forge world against Lionals wished. When they got to terra and saw the emp wwasdead/dying Lional blamed Russ. Russ overcome with grief bared his chest to his brother and Lional stabbed him in his chest just turning the blade at the last moment to avoid peircing Russ's second heart. They had a grudging respect for each other and when ever Sw and DA meet they have a duel amogst their champions to settle this fued. Last time it happened Ragnar beat Bilial. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2049975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Never heard that second part about the bare chest and blade but agree with all the rest except that Russ started the fight by sucker punching the Lion first [at least thats how DA Liberians tell it ^_^ ] By the way where does that second part of the story come from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The story depends on who you ask, it changes from website to website. It is true that Russ hit Lion because his victory was stolen away from him, but the story changes too. It's said that Russ told Lion to stay out of the fight and Lion charged in anyway and killed the leader of the planet, it's also said that Lion was holding on side of a battle line with Russ and Lion left to kill the leader which resulted in some space wolves deaths. The story of their first duel was that Lion hit Russ after Russ hit lion and knocked him out. It's also said that Russ and Lion battled for so long at so many places that the Emperor told them to stop or he would finish it for them. The second part is after Russ was returing from Prosperto to defend Terra, he came under attack from the Alpha Legion(?) in space, as the space wolves chapter was being wiped out the Angles appeared out of the warp and drove off the attackers. On the way back to Terra Russ convinced Lion to stop at Imperial planets along the way that were being attacked and save them. When they reached Terra with the rest of the loyal Space Marine Chapters they were able to drive away all of the attackers, but not in enought time to save the Emperor. Lion blamed Russ and drove his sword through one of his two hearts. Lion regretted what he did but still did not forgive Russ. As the years went by the space marine chapters forgot what the fued was over but still dueled when they met. The last time it hapened was when the Dark Angles landed on a Space Wolves protected world and started attack the population looking for one of the fallen. They didn't realize that they were being set up by the fallen and the Thousand Sons. The two Chapters joined forces and turned back a chaos fleet, also killing the fallen in the process. The story always changes so its just best to decided what you like and go with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Librarian Hesperos Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 So basically, grudging respectful brotherhood? Meaning due to the pride of the DA they actually approve? I mean the DA respecting anyone openly has to mean something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Dave Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The story depends on who you ask, it changes from website to website. It is true that Russ hit Lion because his victory was stolen away from him, but the story changes too. It's said that Russ told Lion to stay out of the fight and Lion charged in anyway and killed the leader of the planet, it's also said that Lion was holding on side of a battle line with Russ and Lion left to kill the leader which resulted in some space wolves deaths. The story of their first duel was that Lion hit Russ after Russ hit lion and knocked him out. It's also said that Russ and Lion battled for so long at so many places that the Emperor told them to stop or he would finish it for them. The second part is after Russ was returing from Prosperto to defend Terra, he came under attack from the Alpha Legion(?) in space, as the space wolves chapter was being wiped out the Angles appeared out of the warp and drove off the attackers. On the way back to Terra Russ convinced Lion to stop at Imperial planets along the way that were being attacked and save them. When they reached Terra with the rest of the loyal Space Marine Chapters they were able to drive away all of the attackers, but not in enought time to save the Emperor. Lion blamed Russ and drove his sword through one of his two hearts. Lion regretted what he did but still did not forgive Russ. As the years went by the space marine chapters forgot what the fued was over but still dueled when they met. The last time it hapened was when the Dark Angles landed on a Space Wolves protected world and started attack the population looking for one of the fallen. They didn't realize that they were being set up by the fallen and the Thousand Sons. The two Chapters joined forces and turned back a chaos fleet, also killing the fallen in the process. The story always changes so its just best to decided what you like and go with it. well 1 the first duel they had was started by russ as he gave the lion a (sucker :P )punch and it finished when the lion knocked him out 2 russ didn't blame the lion for being angry and let the lion stab him while he was raging but the lion did regret and forgive Russ and russ forgave him and they became very close and i can remember reading smewhere that when the lion went 'missing' russ went on crusae to try to heal the emperor but also try to find the lion as he was said to be lost in the warp due to the warp strom on Caliban which engulfed the planet and the story doesnt change its just that they are many stories and @ beef i won't say otherwise but who threw the first punch ? :P ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 the story will always change depending on who you ask (especially if you ask SW or DA). it's best to just choose what you want to believe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 ok true but the wolves and angels were campaigning together in the sjield worlds when terra was attacked that says they worked together hardly hate each othere then eh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damael Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 *Sigh* It goes like this: Russ wants to kill tyrant who insulted his honour. Lion ignores him n does it himself having already planned the assault. Russ is angry, punches lion, fight ensues, ends in a draw. Russ decides it's funny but the Lion doesn't and punches him out. There's a fairly comprehensive full page account in Codex: Angels of Death (pg. 67). That's how it goes. Depending on whether you speak to SW or DA players, they will leave out the detail regarding Russ sucker punching the Lion or the Lion sucker punching Russ respectively. They were both as bad as each other. Anywho, it turned into a healthy rivalry. Although there a lot of folks around here that seem to take it a lot more seriously than that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Librarian Hesperos Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Ok, so I am liking the lion stabbing Russ. That is just plain fun. They fight he stabs. They respect each other. Become close. Kick the galaxy around and just generally rock everyones socks off. Done. Thanks! Just wanted to clarify that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Shadow Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Anywho, it turned into a healthy rivalry. Although there a lot of folks around here that seem to take it a lot more seriously than that. That's exactly how I see it, I'd be inclined to say that DA and SW are closer than most other 1st founding chapters, due to our shared history and traditions, plus the fact that during the Horus Heresy we crusaded together :). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memnoch Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Some issue of WD a few years back had the full story. It was the release of the original Codex Dark Angels. Russ throws first punch-ends up getting knocked out by Lion. The first fight is unarmed combat. They have a second fight with weapons where they both scar each other. As far as I remember this is interrupted by news of the Heresy and it ends as a draw as they abandon the fight. Then they head to Terra but get delayed. Lion stabs Russ after Siege of Terra when the Lion blames Russ for stopping on the way to Terra. Russ is saddened by the Emperors fall and merely bares his chest to the Lion. Lion stabs him but at the last second realises what he is doing and turns the blade so Russ survives. Russ awakes to the Lion and Dorn standing over his bed with the Lion asking for forgiveness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Its not so much about who you ask but where its written, The 2nd edition cosed SW is a great source along with other sw fluff I have read along the years. As for the DA event or their side so to speak i am in no position to argue that as I dont follow thier fluff as closely as that of the Sons of Russ. However it is wll documented that in combat both the lion and Russ were equally matched where Russ was the stronger of the 2 lional was faster Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Yeah... just like any set of athletic brothers they had to outdo each other. But frankly if you hate a guy you dont spend several months nursing the bastard back to health. The legions/chapters are the same way.... its an honor thing, and its a family thing. Theres some information, might just be a blurb now, in the DA book about how every time the two meet theres a contest of champions who fight a "bloodless" duel to determine who will lead the day this time around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Last said duel was won by non other than Ragnar blackmane against belial of the DA. Also its true bout fighting to see who will lead it can only be assumed Logan won against Azrael as he was in over all command last time abbadon did his black crusade/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 As much as I hate to admit it I don't believe Master Azrael Ever land troops on Cadia during the current Black Crusade. My information indcates that the Whole chapter is involved in something in or near the ruins of Calaban on the other side of the Eye. The exact nature of this conflict is as yet unknown. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2050864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damael Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I was under the impression that officers don't take part in the ritual combat, a champion is chosen from each chapter when they meet. I think Ragnar was not yet an officer when he won his duel. I could be wrong though! Not sure where I heard that... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2051099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I believe the story is included in both codex' , at least the originall fight is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2051163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Actually the Dark Angels fought outside the official Imperial command structure during the last Black Crusade. Doing their own thing and all that. So assumptions cannot really be made about possible honour duels. Now that being said, I agree with the notion that many players do not understand the relationship between the DA and SW. Sure there is rivalry but it is exactly that, rivalry. Not all-out war. Besides why bother honouring something you hate? I don't see Blood Angels and Black Legion having honour duels. :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2051298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 So if DA and SW players are in the same game to you have a mini battle with champions before hand or just thumb wrestle? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2051481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 The real truth is that they are both pathetic corpse-worshippers and will burn in the fires of Chaos. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2051495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 The real truth is that they are both pathetic corpse-worshippers and will burn in the fires of Chaos. :) as opposed to a wannabe batman who was angry cause his daddy didnt hug em? :tu: WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2051668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Just remember that the Emperor will return to defeat all the traitors and the eldar will defeat chaos. It dosen't matter what you say, you will be destroyed in the end chaos scum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173421-the-lion-and-the-wolf/#findComment-2051689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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