Drop pod tactics - advice please

[Natanael]

Hey brothers.

 

I am starting up my wolves again, and was thinking of using a pod-based force this time. But since I have never played with pods before, I really need some advice on how to use them, what to take, and so on. I got a dread and a lot of usual bolter-marines, so right now, I am thinking of using something like this(have to buy the other stuff, but hey, its fun:P):

 

Ven dread+DP

WGBL (in TDA, AC etc)

Ironclad+DP

4x GH packs in DP, each w/ TDA WG.

 

That is, with some tweaking, 1500p, and a good start, I think. What do you guys think? Tips and tricks for using a drop pod-army? Any good links?

 

And if this is a stupid question and I am retarded 'cause I cant find it with searchy, please remove the thread.

 

Thanks!

 

- Natanael

[Grey Mage]

Heres some of the pitfalls of drop pod lists and my general responses to them. Hopefully thatll give you some ideas about how to Use a DP list, and how to make it.

 

Here's the problems with drop pod armies:

 

1.) You can't get back into them. And chances are you're playing a mission that involves objectives, so unless you drop right on top of the objective, you're going to have to run to an objective at some point. A Rhino offers more flexibility by allowing you to mount up and attack where you want.

 

2.) After they drop in, you lose the initiative. Your enemy now controls where the battle will be fought and can exploit your weaknesses. He will shoot at your close combat squads and charge your Tacticals and shooty squads. In loot counter missions, there's alot marines squatting on objectives on turn 1. That gives me at least 4 turns to deal with them one at a time.

 

3.) The opponent can reserve his entire army. When half of your pods drop in the first turn, they are now just sitting there in the open with nothing to shoot at. On your opponents turn he will isolate one squad and wipe it out or delay it until the rest of the army comes in to finish the job. If you buy a veteran squad with upgrades, you now have 200+ point unit sitting out in the open with no invulnerable save, no support, 1 wound a piece. They're going to die unless they move and take cover. If they move they can't shoot as far, so it defeats the purpose of dropping anyway.

 

4.) You can't fire your heavy weapons. Bolters are good when rapid firing, but they can't do much against a tank. Plus you have to take a full squad of 10 to be allowed a heavy or special weapon. You can't have a cheap 5 man squad in a pod with a meltagun. Suppose the conditions are perfect and you drop in perfectly without scatter and pop a tank with a meltashot. You might have taken out a 50 point rhino, but you can't shoot at what was inside of it. Your tactical squad is dead next turn. 50 point rhino for a 170 point tactical squad? I'll take that swap any day.

 

5.) Easy killpoints. Once you've delt with the squads, you can move on to the pods and get some more easy kills.

 

6.) Face it people, the deathwind isn't that great. It's only got a 12" range, S5 AP- hits so against marines it has to scatter first, then if it gets a few marines its going to wound on a 3+, but I get my 3+ armor save no matter what. It's more of a nuisance than a real threat. The points are better spent elsewhere. My opponent purchased one for each drop pod for 100 points total. In a 1500 point game that's alot of points to spend.

 

Like I said before, there are good ways to use them, such as when paired with a dreadnought, but there are too many drawbacks for drop pods to be used en masse in a competive list. They're fun in friendly games so you'll probably still win against your little brother and the young bloods but not against a smart veteran player with a well crafted list.

1) So you drop your heavy hitters and keep your scoring units in reserve. Once youve taken out the enemy heavy hittiers your resillient dreadnaughts and wolf gaurd terminators take the hits from their line troops and come out damage, but able. Ive done this alot.... I really dont think its a problem. If your dropping in tactical equivilants first turn your being very very silly indeed.

 

2) Again.... why would you drop in all your scoring units in the first go round? No, thats just silly. You space them out a bit- atleast 1rst and second turn. And of course your going to shoot my assaulty and assault my shooty- your a competent player. Thankfully as a marine player your not much more assaulty than I am. In fact, as a templar player Im as assaulty as you are, potentially more so, and easily more shooty. Though admittedly Ill likely have fewer units.

 

3) So you reserved your entire army huh? Big woop- if you deployed first then guess what- I dont have to deploy in my DPs. Instead Ill deploy normally and use the DPs for cover. If you deploy second then Ill just deep strike near cover and stay out of LOS as much as possible and pick your army apart peicemeal. I know I have half my army on turn 1, you on the other hand have to hope you get what you need when you need it- starting second turn.

 

4) I cant get heavy weapons period- but those extra plasma pistols will do fine and dandy. If your playing a DP army and arent bring enough dreads and TDA to provide heavy weapon support then you need to rethink your tactics though. Thats just bad list building.

 

5) DPs are harder to kill than rhinos with their additional armor points, but Ill admit they do just about double the KP of your army... but all mounted forces have this problem *Shrugs*. Your a good player to take advantage of the fact though.

 

6) Again, your buddy has some bad listbuilding traits. One of the strengths of the DP is, like the rhino, that its cheap and effective for what it does. Addint more than half again the origional points cost in for a weapon thats arguably worse than its initial gunnery is silly. Out of seven DPs, I might take one of these on a Dreads DP... thats about it.

 

My own DP list at 1500 is:

Vendread

WGBL+BG

IronClad

2x Grey Hunter Packs

Landspeeder Typhoon

5xScouts.

[Darkseer]

I'm building a Space Wolves drop pod force at the moment.

 

My strategy is a 2 Wave Strategy depending on what and how my opponent deploys.

 

My drop pods will be divided into 2 groups:

1) dreadnoughts

2) marines

 

If you need to cause carnage right away, bring on the dreads.

if your opponent is putting everything in 'reserve' (a wise move), bring on the marines to claim objectives or set up good defensive positions. Then you can bring on the dreads later.

 

I think that the thing most people overlook when it comes to a Drop Pod army is playing defensively.

Drop Pods block line of sight if their petals are closed and the Drop Pod FAQ states that you may open and close the petals as you wish when you deploy them.

 

So you can effectively create a 'castle' of Drop Pods, which you can then reinforce with more Drop Podding units.

[Natanael]

Okey. Thx for the tips, brothers. Do you think I should go for a termie bodyguard in 1500p too? I just think that I dont have enough troops. I guess I'll have to try them both, and see.

 

More tips is always welcome!

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

Okey. Thx for the tips, brothers. Do you think I should go for a termie bodyguard in 1500p too? I just think that I dont have enough troops. I guess I'll have to try them both, and see.

 

More tips is always welcome!

 

 

Many will say Nay but I say Yay! I regulary play a Pod with a Wolflord + 4 WGBG in my 1500 pt games, the Lord has a Frostaxe/SS and 2 BG are equipped with TH/SS, the other two have assault cannons and chainfists. This unit is my distraction force that I drop right into the teeth of the enemy, the casualty rate is high but they take a lot of firepower to shift. If my opponent thinks he is clever by holding everything off the board I dont let it bother me, I drop the boys in his half of the table into some cover (near an objective if there is any).

 

The 24" Ass cannon range cannot be ignored and if anything gets too close it gets smacked round the back of the head. Most opponents will chuck everything at this unit while your troops close in for the kill or grab objectives! If your opponent decides not to go anywhere near the 24" threat range and the unit does nothing you have still created a 24" bubble to move around in.

[Grey Mage]

It runs me aound 380pts for a WGBL+Retinue, and I think its worth the points.

 

But I wouldnt take a wolf lord. 1) to small a game. 2) heavy weapon is better for podding.

[Natanael]

I guess the terminators have a big fear-factor on the enemy, since they can dish out a world of hurt, but 380 points is quite a lot. But then again, I'll have to try them. Thank god I have friends that lets me play all my proxies :)

[KeithGatchalian]

Wow, I never knew those rules about Pod Doors in the FAQ. I hate transporting the pods around with the doors flopping off and its a paint putting rubber bands and I didn' feel like magnetizing them, so I glued my doors shut.

 

I use a standard LOS chart for the pod....for a normal pod, infantry cannot see through it to other infantry, but larger targets/floating targets can see through to infantry etc and vice versa.

 

For Dreadnought drop pods I allow shooting through, as all the seating junk isn't there.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

is there any official FAQ on the Drop Pods yet???

 

i havent found any, and have currently sealed mine shut. I allow my opponents to draw line of sight through it, but take cover saves.

 

WLK

[OnlyInDeath]

Well, technically, a GT FAQ is about as official as it gets (considering I believe the FAQ's on the website are written from guys on Dakka).

 

If that is an offical stance from a GT, that's how it is. You'll need at least 1 petal to get out, but it looks like the rest can stay up to block line of sight. I personally wont play this way, but if you do, remember that you have to fit ALL models w/in 2" of the departure point, so you will most likely have to drop 2 or 3 petals for a full squad.

[whitewolfmxc]

What it says is If its a empty pod you can chose to close all of them of course since nothings coming out of it (but meaning the original unit that bought the pod has to be deployed at deploy stage and cannot also be in reserve as you only roll one dice for the whole unit to come in , if you come in both come in)

 

but if there's a unit in there , at least One door must be kept opened when deployed

 

But put the above aside My feeling for the tourney rule isnt really that official , every tourney has its own FAQ , and unless its a GW online FAQ , i doubt that everyone will see the tourney FAQ as a answer to the pod questions

 

But has everyone notice the rules written in the Codex contradicts this tourney FAQ ? pg 69 of SM codex , under access point and fire point :

 

"once deployed the drop pod is no longer a sealed environment" , from that point , when its being dropped (all hatches closed , its a sealed environment) compared to after being dropped (all hatches open thus the no longer sealed environment line)

 

So by that i have a feeling that your not suppose to close any hatches at all once delpoyed

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Seems to me that termies and dreads in the first wave would be logical. Dreads w/ multimelta or TLLC for turn one tank killing and termie squads for anti infantry with a 24" assault weapon. Plus they have an invulnerable save to help with heavy return fire. It all depends on damage you deal 1st or 2nd turn.

 

Just on the side, who actually buys GW drop pods? I understand the need to support the hobby but a 35pt model for $30? I just use soda cans, they're about the same size.

[Grey Mage]

I open three doors for infantry and two for dreads. I think its shoddy that people can shoot through the things... and my group has no problem with this. It restricts my ability to shoot at them too.

[dreadmad]

@jonas stromclaw if you dont want to buy pods theres a really cheap way on santacruzwargammer.blogspot.com

[Jonas Stromclaw]

@dreadmad: That's cheap, but soda cans cost nothing. No one I play with (which is an admitedly small number) has complained yet. If they do, thank you for the sugestion, I'll turn to it post hast.

[whitewolfmxc]

Anyone supports my theory of the pod hatch ??? lol

[dietrich]

The GW FAQs are not written by anyone from dakka, they're written by GW. Some of them were including a thanks to Yakface, but that is no longer the case. Yakface never wrote them, but I think that GW used the Adepticon (aka INAT) FAQ as a source for some Questions. Some of the rulings from Adepticons past were reversed by GW (Lash of Submission being one, and I think deff rollas being another) in the GW FAQs. Also note that GW's website has a disclaimer that the FAQs are really just GW's house rules. Most people take them as good as rules though.

 

And, no, GW has not issued an FAQ about it. I think the bigger question is - do all the pedals have to deploy without being within 1 inch of an enemy model or in terrain?

[Roguemarine]

i run a 5 DP list, and it wins about 80% of the time includes

 

2x11 BC's with characters WL and WP

2x 10 GH's PF, MG

ven dread MM,HF

 

i usually drop my BC's in first, because against most opponents i only need 4,5 plus the character to survive to charge. and the GH's come in on objectives later on. i also have a BC bike pack which turbos behind the BC squads coming in.....the key to DP armies i've found is you have to have a fast moving army behind them to support them. Make so many threats that one or two of your units are unmolested and it will succeed.

[Natanael]

Bikes is something I have been thinking of, but the problem at 1500p is that I am so short on points. In 1750 or 1850 I think I will add a pack, but I have trouble getting them in there at 1500p (that's what I am aiming for right now).

 

How do you equip them? If I include a pack, I was thinking of adding: WGBL (FB, Bike), 3-4 Bikers (Flamer, PF)

[Grey Mage]

Eh.... 2x PF, Meltagun- 122pts.

Pack Leader on a bike, with dual LCs- 70pts.

Wolf Priest, on a bike, plasmapistol, RC, Potions- 180pts.

[Quillen]

I have run a pod list for about 4 years now on and off. It's very effect. The guys negative points above are a bit of rubish. he is not seeing the whole point behind a pod list.

 

You have the advantage with your pods till they hit the ground. If you do this right he will have half of what he started with and be playing catch up the rest of the game. Space Wolves are the best at Drop podding right now. Black Templars would be second best. Wolves have so mush plasma love in the grey hunter packs it will over whelm most enemy units. Think about 2 grey hunter packs firing on any unit. It's dead. You have 4 plasma pistol shots, 4 plasma rifle/2Melta shots, 28 rapid firing bolter shots. What ever you lit up is toast.

 

You can use the pops for cover and even they cans hoot some causing the guy furstraition. It's all about not playing his game and making him play yours. So figur out how to cripple his list and do it fast. Then move to objectives.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

And, no, GW has not issued an FAQ about it. I think the bigger question is - do all the pedals have to deploy without being within 1 inch of an enemy model or in terrain?

This is the real question for me too... I think not opening all the doors in combination with the inertial guidance rule is really taking advantge of two rules which aren't designed to work together(GW eh?).

 

For the record, I always open all the doors and allow line of sight through them with a cover save. I think they clearly should block movement as any unit does but can't pretend I think they should block line of sight or be able to keep some doors up - automated they may be but thats too far for me. As always though, agree it with your opponent before it happens and all will be smiley...

 

Tactically, pods are very good for taking the initiative but can come unstuck if you go first and have to pod onto an empty table as he has stayed in reserve. Using them as a mobile fortress to block off objectives is very useful, particularly if you give an early one a locator beacon and then build around it.

[Valerian]

For the record, I always open all the doors and allow line of sight through them with a cover save.

 

Yep, that's how I play it.

 

V

[Grey Mage]

I play far to much cityfight to agree with that assessment- most of the time I can only open 2 doors, maybe three anyways.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

I play far to much cityfight to agree with that assessment- most of the time I can only open 2 doors, maybe three anyways.

Interesting... I haven't played much cityfight to be honest. I remember using the cover rules a few times but thats all. Surely it would be more a case of opening nearly all the doors to some degree to represent it 'attempting' to open and getting stuck. This would mean line of sight still goes through maybe?

 

If I was feeling particularly critical, I might say that if it couldn't open fully it would alter course to the nearest area where it could using the inertial guidance rule, and thus could move (scatter?) a looooong way to deploy... Hmmm... I suppose I just play on tables where theres always enough room to deploy fully and that leaving some doors closed just didn't occur to me. Aah, but for an FAQ.