Pre-Heresy Wolves

[DV8]

I love your stuff DV8! That Wolf Lord is awsome! If you don't mind my asking, where did you find him, or at least the base model for your conversion?

 

It's the new Cato Sicarius model as the basecoat, with all the Ultramarine icons filed off.

The left arm is the Bionics + Chainsword arm from the Commander box.

The right arm is from Marneus Calgar.

The head is from the new plastic Empire Flagallent box.

The backpack and banner are from the Space Wolf Accessory Sprue, with the Shield from the Beastmen sprue.

The wolf pelt is the Wolf cape from the Space Wolf Accessory Sprue, with lots of Green Stuff.

 

 

DV8

[Valerian]

I'm sure this topic has been put up before, but I was looking for some new views and ideas. With the new Codex coming out soon, I am looking to re-vamp my Great Company. I've always thought that the traditional paint scheme of Shadow Grey/ SW grey looked too blue, so Pre-Heresy colors are what I'm going for. What Colors do y'all use, and what inspires your conversions? I have most of my army in oven cleaner now, ready for the new paint job.....

 

I know that we've discussed this before, and recently, but just for the sake of accuracy I'll say it again. The Space Wolves, unlike the Dark Angels, do not have official pre-Heresy and post-Heresy paint schemes. Instead, we have pre-1994 and post 1994 (or thereabouts) paint schemes. In fact, as others have stated, there really isn't an official color for the chapter at all, it is up to each individual Wolf Lord, as long as it is some variation of "grey" (and loosely defined at that.

 

Whenever the 13th company Eye of Terror list and models were released, whoever painted them at GW used the more "codex grey" shade, and it somehow caught on that the codex grey shade was pre-heresy, and the blue-grey was post-heresy.

 

Valerian

[Silverwolf]

^ Val hit it spot on. As a chapter, the Space Wolves were amongst those that made the least amount of changes after the Heresy. The organisation of the Space Wolves chapter also means that each Wolf Lord tends to bring to his Great Company his own little variations, and as each Wolf Lord dies and the Great Company gets a new Wolf Lord, the new Wolf Lord quiet possibly brings a few more slight differences in the way things are done.

 

As such, anything from an almost black-grey through to an almost sky blue blue-grey is pretty much acceptable as a paint scheme.

 

Myself, I used to use a very dark blue-grey on my models, with a black undercoat to enhance the look I was after. Now however I've seen a lot of brilliant looking models with a pale grey as their main colouring. As such I'm acctually waiting to see how the Cadians I'm working on at the moment turn out, because I'm trying out Adeptus Battlegrey and Astronomican Grey (foundation paints) as their main colours. If I like the way the Cadians turn out, I may change to using a similar colouring on my Space Wolves.

[Wolf Lord Mjolnir]

Actually you are wrong. The grey scheme did not start with the Eye of Terror campaign.

 

The original RTB01 marines (and all rogue trader era Space Wolves) showed Space Wolves as grey not blue grey or greyie blue or baby blue. EDIT I may be wrong on this point ;-)

 

Additionally, Visions of Heresy clearly shows Space Wolves in grey armour. Again, not any shade of blue.

 

I do know that GW have tried to say that Wolf Lords have variations of grey post heresy but, personally I think that is rubbish and trying to explain their artistic error (it has been discussed elsewhere that an artist made a mistake that they stuck to when painting the 1994 Space Wolves).

 

I must admit, what I don't understand is that in the BRB Space Wolves are shown with both the blue grey and grey colour scheme so maybe GW are retconing the colour??

 

I see a clear distinction in Space Wolves being grey before the Horus Heresy and then their being blue grey afterwards.

 

I think this is more accurate.

 

Mjol

[Silverwolf]

Mjolnir, you've basically agreed with what Val said, which I already stated I agreed with.

 

Yes, it used to be different, but things changed, fluff changed in around 1994 (Hell if you really want to go down the path of saying anything new is wrong then we shouldn't even have the Fang on Fenris!!). And since those changes, it has now becoming the accepted norm that colourings alter between GCs.

 

Yes the grey schemes are still seen by many as the "pre-heresy" scheme, however. If you look at the structure of the Space Wolves (Which has not altered, aside from a decrease in numbers), and considering our Primarch, I'm pretty sure that Russ would of held a position quite similar to Logan Grimnar's current position as the "Old Wolf" (I'm rusty on my fluff, have we acctually got any evidence for or against this?).

 

In which case Russ would of had his own personal GC, to which was tied all of our support units. If that was so then the arguement could be made that all of the pre-heresy artwork is focused around Russ and his GC, in which case we would see little of the colourings of the other GCs.

 

At the end of the day, stick within the "accepted norms" (blue-grey to dark grey) and you can colour your Wolves however you like. Personally, I do acctually prefer the grey schemes, but then I'd colour mine like that regardless of wether the fluff on it said it was a surviving pre-heresy GC or a completely new one. My advice, make your own choice on colouration. We've a brilliant collection of artists within the hallowed walls of the Fang. Check out their work, see what appeals to you, and go from their. It's your GC, your it's Wolf Lord, add your own flavour to it's colouring, markings, and tactics.

[Wolf Lord Mjolnir]

@ Silverwolf - Maybe I should have been clearer. I was disagreeing with Val re official PH scheme. I believe PH Space Wolves are and have been officially grey (not blue). Everything GW has produced supports this; Visions of Heresy and Black Library novels (Wolf's Honour, Tales of Heresy, Battle for the Abyss).

 

The 13th Company was simply painted according to fluff.

 

Additionally in Tales of Heresy, Bulveye is mentioned. He is the Wolf Lord of the 13th Company and his Wolves are grey too.

 

I do not understand the leap you make to say that possibly all PH wolf imagery is of Russ' own company? I do not think any argument could be made to support this although I would be interested to hear it.

 

Of course everyone should paint wolves however they want - I just think, to say on a forum that your comment is 'accurate' you should make sure it is. This is how fluff gets ruined and silly 'official fan fluff' is created.

 

For example some wolf players believe Leman Russ disapeared with the 13th Comapny at Prospero and that he leads them now - how the hell was that 'fluff' generated? Wolf's Honour states that the Wulfen are not led by Russ and may in fact be looking for him. Hell - even the 2nd Edition Codex states that Russ left Fenris and disapeared many years after the HH. No one in particular can be 'blamed' for this especially as GW have not been very good thus far in issuing fluff and keeping old but existing fluff in print, expecially for Space Wolves.

 

This is seriously starting to sound like a rant which I do not want it to be. If I have offended anyone please believe me that this is not my intention - happy painting with whatever colour you want.

 

Mjol

 

ps PH Space Wolves are GREY :D

[TeamLando]

I "play" (more like "paint") a small force of 13th and I go with a vase of black, then Chaos Black + Codex Grey, something like 60/40. Leave that color in the crevices and the shadowed areas, then codexgrey watered down, then codexgrey + Fortress grey watered down and then fortressgrey and maybe some white for the highlights! Black Shoulderpads.

[Silverwolf]

I do not understand the leap you make to say that possibly all PH wolf imagery is of Russ' own company? I do not think any argument could be made to support this although I would be interested to hear it.

 

Well, being rusty on the fluff (been a long time since I sat down and acctually had a good read through the collected info), i'm making a few assumptions. But basically I would imagine most of the fluff, and so imagery tied to it, that comes from the pre-Heresy era would be talking of Russ and his endeavours. And Russ, being our Primarch, would of been our original "Great Wolf / Old Wolf" (The position Grimnar now holds).

 

Now the with Space Wolf organisation, the support units (Wolf Priests, Rune Priests, Wolf Scouts etc) are basically a GC all to their own, and are simply attached "on loan" (for lack of a better phrase) to the GC they are attached to at that time. And it is the Great Wolf that has command of these support units. However it is a Wolf Lord that becomes a Great Wolf, and so when they rise to that position they bring with them their current GC as well.

 

So... with that in mind... Russ being our Primarch (so the original Great Wolf), may he not also of had his own GC? I would imagine that Russ would of held himself always as more a first amongst equals, rather then "king of the Space Wolves", just as Grimnar does. Sitting down at the table with his Wolf Lords, planning, and sharing several kegs of ale :P.

 

So, assuming the above is correct, then the imagery we see of the Space Wolves prior to the HH would most likely of been of Russ's own GC, as most sagas told of that time would of been about our Primarch and what he was doing. Then taking into account that each Wold Lord brings his own flavour on markings, colouring, and tactics when he rises to become the Wolf Lord, is it then not also possible that Russ did much the same? His GC having it's own markings, colouring, and tactics?

 

Anyway, that was my general thoughts when making my earlier post :P. Someone with longer fangs then I will probably come along and tell me I'm being an ale-addled whelp now ;)

[Valerian]

Hi all, I forgot about this thread and just noticed it again, so I'll go back into it one more time just to clarify my position.

Actually you are wrong. The grey scheme did not start with the Eye of Terror campaign.

The original RTB01 marines (and all rogue trader era Space Wolves) showed Space Wolves as grey not blue grey or greyie blue or baby blue. EDIT I may be wrong on this point ;-)

No, you are absolutely correct on this point, and I did not say otherwise. From 1987 until about 1994 (maybe a little earlier) everybody painted their Space Wolves plain old "codex" grey, or sometime in camouflage patterns, as they were very common during that era. We are in absolute agreement that plain old grey was the old standard. However, it was the standard for all Space Wolves and there was no pre-Heresy or post-Heresy distinction.

Just before the 2nd Edition codex was released in 1994, one of the 'Eavy Metal artists (don't remember who) decided to paint the official studio army for the new codex with a blue-grey color. If I recall correctly the idea was that the newer tint/hue would better represent the natural environment of the snow and ice of the Space Wolves homeworld of Fenris. All of the new collectors of Space Wolves that followed upon release of the 2nd Edition codex, naturally followed the color-scheme found in the book. The new blue-grey caught on and became the de-facto "official" color of the Space Wolves.

However, despte the change in the codex, many of the older Space Wolves players, who already had armies from the Rogue Trader era just kept their older paint schemes (why repaint everything), after all.

Now, on to the next and main point of the discussion, GW never, ever, in any of the fluff bothered to explain the change in color. If I had to guess, they probably didn't consider it a big enough change (just shades of grey, after all) to justify an explanation. I have never read an article that said, "the Space Wolves used to be plain Grey, but then Horus turned traitor, so Leman Russ told everyone to repaint their armor..." If I have missed it (which is entirely possible), then I'd definitely like to know it.

It is important to note at this point, that this did happen for the Dark Angels. When their Rogue Trader color of Black, changed to Dark Green with the release of their 2nd edition codex, Angels of Darkness, GW did provide an actual fluff/background explanation for the change. I don't remember the specifics of that anymore, but I do remember reading about it.

In the "modern era" (i.e. from 2nd edition onward), the first time that I ever saw a studio army for Space Wolves painted plain Grey again, was for the release of the 13th Company army for the Eye of Terror Codex. Again, GW never provided a reason for the color-scheme. My assumption has always been that whoever painted these models for the studio simply wanted to go with the old-school retro look, perhaps in some fit of nostalgia. Or, perhaps this artist was one of the old purists who had always kept his Wolves plain grey and never did convert to the blue-grey of the other 'Eavy Metal painter; I'm sure that we will never know, unless someone can find the guy and ask him.

It was at this point that many people thought (and incorrectly so) that because the 13th company was plain grey (and they had left for the Eye of Terror during the Horus Heresy) and all the other Space Wolves were blue-grey, that there was some sort of pre-Heresy/post-Heresy change in color scheme, which is not the case.

In the years since the 13th Company was released with the Eye of Terror campaign back in 3rd edition (2003, I think), there have been a lot of Black Library books on the Horus Heresy, most of which have cover art of Space Wolves that are plain grey. I don't see a discrepancy there as GW has never stated whether there is/is not an official color for the Wolves other than "some shade of grey".

It is at this point that most old Space Wolves players just use the reasoning that: "Space Wolves Wolf Lords have the freedom to shape their Great Companies however they want, to include determining the exact shade of grey that their armor will be painted."

I must admit, what I don't understand is that in the BRB Space Wolves are shown with both the blue grey and grey colour scheme so maybe GW are retconing the colour??

As I stated above, both colors are shown in the BRB as both colors are "accepted". There is not retcon, as GW never bothered to specify a color in the first place.

I believe PH Space Wolves are and have been officially grey (not blue). Everything GW has produced supports this; Visions of Heresy and Black Library novels (Wolf's Honour, Tales of Heresy, Battle for the Abyss).

Not that this will really tell us much, lets take a look at some of the artwork for the Black Library Books:

Here is Prospero Burns, set during the Heresy, and the Space Wolves on the cover are clearly a plain Grey.

Here is Grey Hunter, set in M41 sometime (well after the Heresy), and the Space Wolves on the cover again appear to be plain Grey... interesting.

Here is Ragnar's Claw, also set very much post-Heresy, and the Space Wolves on the cover again appear to be plain Grey....hmmm.

Wolfblade, modern era, plain Grey.

Son's of Fenris, not sure when this is set, plain Grey.

The Space Wolves Omnibus, several books combined, set in the modern 40k era, the only book with a different shade of Grey, which appears to be a dark Grey. However, I'm not sure that you can really base anything on this, as it is really just a compilation of some of the other books that I've already shown above.

Nope, no clear distinction here.

I see a clear distinction in Space Wolves being grey before the Horus Heresy and then their being blue grey afterwards.

Nope, no distinction.

For example some wolf players believe Leman Russ disapeared with the 13th Comapny at Prospero and that he leads them now - how the hell was that 'fluff' generated? Wolf's Honour states that the Wulfen are not led by Russ and may in fact be looking for him. Hell - even the 2nd Edition Codex states that Russ left Fenris and disapeared many years after the HH. No one in particular can be 'blamed' for this especially as GW have not been very good thus far in issuing fluff and keeping old but existing fluff in print, expecially for Space Wolves.

You are absolutely correct, Leman Russ definitely did not leave with Jorin Bloodfang and his 13th Company into the Eye of Terror. He left to parts unknown with his companions (minus Bjorn) years after the Horus Heresy. I think the misconception here started with a fan-generated hope that he had departed for the Eye of Terror on some unknown mission and that he linked up with the 13th Company there.

I hope this is much clearer,

Best regards,

Valerian

[Brother Tuditanus]

Thank you gentleman for the education here on the older SW and their colors! Since we're vaguely on the topic and this thread is fairly open ended, i'm to assume it was only the 13th Co. and some Custodes that made Landfall on Prospero for the capture of Magnus? Also, I seem to remember Russ being there, so perhaps some of his body guard? In that case, would it be reasonable/in the norm within the arguments set here to have the 13th Co. one shade of grey, then Russ and his personal retinue in another slightly different?