Prot Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Out of the pages of the Chaos codex, I have decided to do a squad up of Red Corsairs that follow the story where Huron welcomes a squad of Space Wolves into his Chapter. I have two squads in the works right now. One is marked with Khorne, and one will be marked with Slannesh. Now at first I thought the choice was obvious... Khorne! But the more I thought about it, I realized this is a tough choice. Space Wolves are great warriors, but also a proud chapter. They are known for some excesses, and also sort of have the sort of 'martial pride' that reminds me somewhat of Emperor's Children. Of course it's obvious to point to their obvious ferocity and think Khorne, but I thought it would be worth asking you guys. I know Tzeentch is probably out, especially since I can't make the mark itself fit in my army. Nurgle is just too expensive, but I suppose an option! Let's hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Shadow Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Space Wolves are great warriors, but also a proud chapter. They are known for some excesses, and also sort of have the sort of 'martial pride' that reminds me somewhat of Emperor's Children. To me Khorne not only represented ferocity and fighting skills but also martial pride and honour that comes from a fighting an equal warrior. Khorne doesn't always have to be represented by blood thirsty psychopaths with their only care being killing, there are those that seek out worthy opponents or take honour in defeating such opponent, which is what I feel SW would be drawn towards. The martial pride of the Emperor's Children tends to end up with them seeking perfection beyond all others, and to me that doesn't scream SW, however SW are known to being less organised and more wild than other Space Marine chapters, with the feasting and the drinking etc. so it could be Slaanesh in some way. However I think Khorne suits them best, but in a type of more honour bound killing than killing for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Khorne no doubt about it tat tall. The "exsesses" you bring uo are the excess of those that are drawn to khorne, martial pride, not seeking perfection in battle but brutal victory (both in personal combat and as an army), the rush (and "zone") you get from martial combat, brutial maylee where you KNOW you are better then the other guy.. I know where you are drawing reference from, the discription of Lucius in the HH series, him seeking perfection as a swordsman. But thats more like a dualist, a technician, not the brutal malee of the SW's and brzrkrs..."I don't care if it's pretty, or perfect, make them dead" kinda attitude. Think of a french or spanish dualist vs. a hoard of axe weilding vikings: which better describes the SW's ?? Not to mention, the SW's are very obviously modeled after vikings and the very word brzrkrs is a norse word for a special frenzied type of viking fighters. SW's would be khorne all the way, no chance of any other chaos god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Plus the hatred of psykers. Being good at close combat, possessing a bit of a blood lust, and hating psykers is pretty khorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 with the feasting and the drinking etc. so it could be Slaanesh in some way. Yea, b/c vikings (there for khorne worshipers) weren't infamous for excesses in fighting, feasting, and drinking :whistling: B) Don't get me wrong Shadow, I know we are on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Warriors of khorne do other things besides just killing. The blood pact have been known to take female prisoners for "entertainment", and everyone drinks. Slaanesh is torture, BDSM and psychedelic drug usage not pillaging and drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhydin Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 No one puts the obvious choice? Chaos Undivided Everything for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 No one puts the obvious choice? Chaos Undivided Everything for everyone. Not a very good understanding of chaos undivided, or khorne or SW's for that matter. Not trying to be harsh :whistling: , it's just obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Khorne for sure. Slaanesh is about a more "refined" debauchery in that it's actually meant to explore the outer reaches of experience Marquis de Sade style, while Khorne worshipers revel in the enjoyment of killing but only coincidentally with the point being to kill, the enjoyment is a byproduct. It's the other way around for Slaanesh who is a far less direct god and Pups are nothing if not direct. As for feasting, well all marines feasted when they were loyal, World Eaters included, but Emperor's Children also read philosophy and listened to opera on their downtime, while World Eaters decapitated people during their time off from decapitating people, now which sounds more like the SW to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Though it's almost cliche, I'd have to say that everything in their character points to Khorne-worship: Ferocity, savagery, martial pride, natural hunters etc. I imagine that Khorne in his aspect as "The Great Hound" would appeal to them greatly. It would even be fun concocting an entirely new aspect of Khorne for your renegade Space Wolves to worship: "The Blood Wolf" or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 That's the way I was leaning.... but I wanted to use a bit of imagination here before just writing it off as Khorne. I should back up a bit though and say I don't see Slaanesh as an icon -only- for debauchery, or bizarre sexuality. I think that stuff just gets most of the attention. I'm thinking more of Lucius, which of course showed more than a hint of debauchery, but it was the way he enjoyed the kill. The way he wanted to face an equal, not a lesser man. The thrill of not just the victory, but the hunt and the inevitable pain, and pleasure associated with the adrenaline rush of two super powered humans fighting to death. I think that fits Slaanesh as well..... There are moments in The Abyss novel that the iconic Space Wolves Marine is fighting with Skaar of the World Eaters. And a few moments stuck out to me... of course the excesses of the Space Wolves Marine's drinking habits. But also when it came time to fight, the SW marine couldn't help but be taken back by the pure carnage, and seemingly tactic-less style of Skaar and his men. Going a bit deeper than Khorne = "I like to kill stuff" and Slaanesh = "I like booze and dirty magazines"..... what if the Wolves Huron encounters had been honing the thrill of the hunt? The moment of the kill, the desire to meet an equal... to be tested. Not to simply take a skull but be TRULY tested, and revel in the anticipation of the hunt, the pain of an undefended blow, and the pleasure of victory. But it's true they are a VERY easy pick for Khorne. I just wanted to play with the idea of the SW's being swayed by Slaanesh. I believe it -could- in theory happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 That's the way I was leaning.... but I wanted to use a bit of imagination here before just writing it off as Khorne. I should back up a bit though and say I don't see Slaanesh as an icon -only- for debauchery, or bizarre sexuality. I think that stuff just gets most of the attention. I'm thinking more of Lucius, which of course showed more than a hint of debauchery, but it was the way he enjoyed the kill. The way he wanted to face an equal, not a lesser man. The thrill of not just the victory, but the hunt and the inevitable pain, and pleasure associated with the adrenaline rush of two super powered humans fighting to death. I think that fits Slaanesh as well..... There are moments in The Abyss novel that the iconic Space Wolves Marine is fighting with Skaar of the World Eaters. And a few moments stuck out to me... of course the excesses of the Space Wolves Marine's drinking habits. But also when it came time to fight, the SW marine couldn't help but be taken back by the pure carnage, and seemingly tactic-less style of Skaar and his men. Going a bit deeper than Khorne = "I like to kill stuff" and Slaanesh = "I like booze and dirty magazines"..... what if the Wolves Huron encounters had been honing the thrill of the hunt? The moment of the kill, the desire to meet an equal... to be tested. Not to simply take a skull but be TRULY tested, and revel in the anticipation of the hunt, the pain of an undefended blow, and the pleasure of victory. But it's true they are a VERY easy pick for Khorne. I just wanted to play with the idea of the SW's being swayed by Slaanesh. I believe it -could- in theory happen. I think you may have something actually. Slaanesh is not only about one particular kind of indulgence or excess; He/She/It is EVERY kind of indulgence and excess. Let's say that we have a company of Space Wolves who come to enjoy certain aspects of their work too much; maybe they take a little too much enjoyment in hunting down and dismembering their prey, take far too much time indulging their feral proclivities for inflicting pain and the fear of the hunted upon their enemies. Then let's imagine that company of Space Wolves is officially rebuked. It wouldn't take much imagination to see the company commander becoming somewhat embittered and disillusioned with the restrictions placed upon him and his warriors by the Space Wolve's traditions. Finally breaking away from the chapter, they may come to indulge the appetites they've been conditioned to repress to the fullest extent, thus opening the way for Slaanesh's influence. It would in fact be an interesting irony if they despise other Slaanesh worshippers for their foppery and effeteness, but revel in his aspect as a patron of perfection and self superiority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thank you! Finally someone thinking outside the box...or chaos star...or whatever. I'm not saying they don't have Khornate traits, but being creative, why not look for the less obvious answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Yes but Khorne is not necessarily all about just beheadings either, it's just the most common and direct path and the SW are such an obvious fit that it's all that needed. That said, Khorne is also the patron of warriors and martial pride, basically I think the difference is that Khorne followers kill for the ideals of killing for Khorne (a cause greater than themselves, which is why they sometimes kill themselves as well) while Slaanesh worshippers kill for their own experience, in essence it is selflessness versus selfishness. Space Wolves are very devoted to Russ, the wolftime, etc. and although I could see that devotion twisted to following a greater master, I don't think it could be as easily twisted to the pure selfishness of Slaanesh. That said it's your army, make them Tzeentch if you want, I'm sure it's possible, it's just not very likely, and neither is Slaanesh. Also, although Slaanesh is not all about sexuality and BDSM, s/he is always at least partially about it as those can also garner extreme experience and Slaany is all about doing as much as possible until you feel nothing at all so I really don't see any of it's worshipers denying themselves some good ol' debauchery. Honestly arguments about Slaanesh not being all about kinky things are like saying that it's not always cold in Alaska, it's true, but it usually is, and it's never tropical either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Dave Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 just thinking here could it be possible so have them worship both of them ...................Khrone and Slaanesh ;) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 And, a minor point that might help, DA are most likely to be tempted by Slaanesh and they and SW really don't like each other :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Dave Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 And, a minor point that might help, DA are most likely to be tempted by Slaanesh and they and SW really don't like each other :). just Curious now why would DA be tempted by Slaanesh? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 And, a minor point that might help, DA are most likely to be tempted by Slaanesh and they and SW really don't like each other :). just Curious now why would DA be tempted by Slaanesh? ;) They wear dresses and have a dark secret. Fill in the blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 ...Those are cloaks, are you daft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 J. Edgar Hoover was a Dark Angel? They're getting more interesting by the minute... ^_^ On a more serious note, I can see them as Khorne in general, but it really depends on the psychology of the troops who defected, and you can take it just about anywhere if you think about it. Are they going with the Blood God to assuage their essential rage, drown the shame of having surrendered (or perhaps serving a false Emperor for so long) in blood, or rebuild their martial pride before the Skull Throne? Does the sensual thrill of battle drive their pulse rate up, the taste of blood on their tongues get them excited, the experience of taking lives charge them up, such that they seek perfection and exquisite pleasure in the service of the Prince of Excess? Were they shamed by the fear of death, or do they seek absolution from the Curse of the Wulfen? Either, or simply a desire to see the Imperium choke on its own filth after realizing the lies that were their lives, will serve the purposes of the Lord of Decay. Maybe their leader was struck by a vision, or perhaps these sons of Russ wish to challenge fate and shape it anew, learning the secrets of changing the world and the forbidden whispers of the damned at the feet of the Changer of the Ways to serve their own purposes even as they serve his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 ...Those are cloaks, are you daft? Pretty woman...walkin' down the street http://www.critical-hits.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/dark-angel-veterans.gif If those are "cloaks" I'm the Queen of England! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I believe the word you're looking for is "robe", actually, Your Majesty. I didn't know you gamed; between you and Vin Diesel, we might actually end up semi-respectable one of these days. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 ...Those are cloaks, are you daft? I'm thinking of a recent movie. "Why are you wearing a dress?" "Its called a cloak!" "Funny, looks like a dress to me." I can see them with Khorne or nurgle, or even both. I can't really see them with Slannesh. Its not just indulgence, Slannesh is uni sex, drug loving, ecstatic, music loving, ect. SW- more your drunken, bar fighter who loves nascar, and is a truck driver w/ a playboy in the passenger seat. Slannesh worshiper- Heroin and ecstasy addict, who spends the weekends at rave parties, and has 3 different STDs. Both love to indulge, VERY different ideas of the word indulge. Nurgle: they are dirty, and like to play in the mud. Seem to have the father figure down pat. Khorne-obvious. Tzeench-no... just no. Ok their hated enemy are the Thousand Sons! We hate psykers, we hate the TSs, lets join Tzeench.... no, just no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 And, a minor point that might help, DA are most likely to be tempted by Slaanesh and they and SW really don't like each other :). just Curious now why would DA be tempted by Slaanesh? :P Utterly obsessed with a secret yearning - Check Consumed by a desire to do something in particular - Check Desperate to pursue honour via marshall prowess - Check Willing, and happy, to injure themselves to obtain that goal - Check Primarch named after a struggling gay poet with inner daemons - Check Little bit too obsessed with looking nice - Check It's all there. Don't get me wrong, I play DA so don't think it's a bad thing, just pointing it out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Tzeench-no... just no. Ok their hated enemy are the Thousand Sons! We hate psykers, we hate the TSs, lets join Tzeench.... no, just no. Didn't say it would be easy, but if you fluff it right and make it work, it could be awesome. I'm just saying don't limit your options here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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