How do TDA saves work?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

ok, so this one question has kept me from playing any termies, and i would like to use some so i'm finally going to swallow my pride, and ask.

 

for the TDA, it is 2+ save, and 3+inv. how does that work exactly, do you choose which you use, or do you use the 3+ only when you wouldn't normally get a save.

 

i've been playing a while, just never really knew...any way thanks.

[c-wrex]

Terminator armor gives a 2+ armor save, and a 5+ invul save, not a 3+... You pick which you'd rather test against, unless it's it's a power weapon or equivalent weapon that ignores standard armor saves...

 

The only way to get a 3+ as a termy is with a storm shield. Something which makes that storm shield MUCH more viable than it was in fourth edition (which is when I got into 40k)

 

edited because rum and keyboards dont always equal successful typing on a saturday night...

[jeffersonian000]

Tactical Dreadnought Armour (aka Terminator Armour) provides a 2+ armour save and a 5+ invulnerable save. If you add a Storm Shield, the shield will provide a 3+ invul save. You always use the best save for each situation.

 

SJ

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

whoops, it was to late. 5+ what i meant.

 

alright, thats what i thought, thanks.

[shan vener]

i always thought and played that you use both armor and invulnerable.

[krewl]

Nope, that was only so in 2nd edition, now at least 15 years ago or so.

 

Back then it was very possible to get shot, take an armour save, a cover save and an invulnerable save.

Now you take the best save.

 

So if you get hit by a powerweapon or an AP1 or 2 shot you take the 5+ invulnerable save. If it's not ignoring your regular save you take the 2+.

If you have storm shield you take the 3+ invulnerable save.

 

If you happen to be a terminator in cover when shot at with an ap 1 or 2 weapon you take the 4+ cover save which is better then the 5+ save your armour gives you.

[Balroth]

Nope, that was only so in 2nd edition, now at least 15 years ago or so.

 

Back then it was very possible to get shot, take an armour save, a cover save and an invulnerable save.

Now you take the best save.

 

Not quite. 3rd edition came out in 1998. Also, back in 2nd edition, there were no such thing as cover saves. Cover imposed a to hit modifier on the shooter. -1 to hit for soft cover (bushes, fences, trees) and -2 for hard cover (walls, fortifications, etc).

 

-B

[TheDarkApostle]

Nope, that was only so in 2nd edition, now at least 15 years ago or so.

 

Back then it was very possible to get shot, take an armour save, a cover save and an invulnerable save.

Now you take the best save.

 

Not quite. 3rd edition came out in 1998. Also, back in 2nd edition, there were no such thing as cover saves. Cover imposed a to hit modifier on the shooter. -1 to hit for soft cover (bushes, fences, trees) and -2 for hard cover (walls, fortifications, etc).

 

-B

Which is basically how Fantasy Battles work. And there you still do take your armor save first, then you take your "Ward" save (which is basically their version of Invulnerable save) if you have one and if you fail your armor save.

 

TDA

[the jeske]

Not quite. 3rd edition came out in 1998. Also, back in 2nd edition, there were no such thing as cover saves.

wrong . in 2ed you had powerfields. so first you were making a save on those[anything from +6 to +2 unmodifid save] then normal save , then any re-roll of saves you had [prise of khorn for example] a khorn lord was runing around with +2 save on 2d6 and a conversion filed or a displace [4/3 saves]. some people were using power field generators[+2 inv] but they were giving minus to WS so werent so good .

[Brother Captain Josef]

Back then it was very possible to get shot, take an armour save, a cover save and an invulnerable save.

Now you take the best save.

 

Cover saves? in 2ED you had minus to hit. -1 for 'soft' cover and -2 for 'hard' cover as I remember.

 

EDIT: just read above

[jimbo1701]

Terminators used to be solid in 2nd ed with a 3+ save.....on 2D6!!!!! Only something with a hefty modifier like a lascannon (-6?) had a chance of taking one down. I guess the fact that the 5++ save now means you could survive multiple lascannon hits if you were lucky with the dice compensates.

[Legatus]

Not quite. 3rd edition came out in 1998. Also, back in 2nd edition, there were no such thing as cover saves.

wrong . in 2ed you had powerfields. so first you were making a save on those[anything from +6 to +2 unmodifid save] then normal save , then any re-roll of saves you had [prise of khorn for example] a khorn lord was runing around with +2 save on 2d6 and a conversion filed or a displace [4/3 saves]. some people were using power field generators[+2 inv] but they were giving minus to WS so werent so good .

He is not wrong. The power fields you describe are basically what invulnerable saves are now. There were no saves for cover. Cover imposed a negative to-hit modifier on the enemies BS roll.

[Hazard]

WOw! I wonder how it was playing in 3rd or 2nd editions...

[Brother Amarel]

Terminators used to be solid in 2nd ed with a 3+ save.....on 2D6!!!!! Only something with a hefty modifier like a lascannon (-6?) had a chance of taking one down.

Well that the Shokk Attack Gun and Gretchin* getting inside the armour.

 

*Or was it Snotlings... I forget now :).

[Balroth]

wrong .

 

Eh? I think you'll find I'm 100% correct on this occasion.

 

Ah, Shokk Attack Guns... I'm very glad I only rarely used to play against Orks. They were great fun though.

 

-B

[TopToffee]

Where are people getting the info that you don't take the 2+ and THEN (if you roll a 1) you take the invul save?

 

The rulebook section on invul saves is pretty ambiguous, but it certainly doesn't explicitly say that only one of the saves may be taken.

[Legatus]

The section on page 24, titeled "Models With More Than One Save" is not ambiguous at all.

 

"Sometimes, a model will have a normal armour save and a separate invulnerable save - a good example is a Space Marine Chaplain who is protected by both power armour and a Rosarius-generated force field. As if that wasn't enough the model might be in cover as well. In these cases, the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of using the best available save."

[Frosty the Pyro]

Where are people getting the info that you don't take the 2+ and THEN (if you roll a 1) you take the invul save?

 

The rulebook section on invul saves is pretty ambiguous, but it certainly doesn't explicitly say that only one of the saves may be taken.

you should have kept reading

pg 24 "Models with more than one save"

[TopToffee]

oops :no:

cheers guys