Scout tactics: Part 7 Orks

[greatcrusade08]

[center; background-image:url(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;">Scout tactics: Part 7 Orks[/center]

The most common ork armies are horde armies and at 6 points for an ork boy they can outnumber a scout force almost two to one.
Orks however do have a number of vastly different army builds and some deadly units like the renowned nob bikers and warboss/nob units, the aim of this article will be to discover how to counter these units and armies with an all scout force

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;">Shooting

In most standard games you will only get a couple of turns of shooting against an ork mob before they are chopping you into bite sized bits. For the most part a scout army is firing with BS3 (hitting on 4s) so shooting isn’t as effective as we would like, to counter this we need more multi-shot weapons such as bolters and shotgunners in order to reduce their numbers to manageable levels.
By far the best way to kill ork mobs is with template weapons, for scout armies that means heavy flamers on land speeder storms, combi-flamers on scout sergeants and heavy weapons: frag missiles and hellfire heavy bolters, and lastly grenade launchers on scout bikes.
The main aim must be to reduce the mobs to manageable levels, once below ten models snipers can be used to pin the units, giving you more time to concentrate fire on other targets.

Land speeder Storms

The high movement rate of the land speeder allows us to use them as nuisance units, combined with the scout move we can manoeuvre them to the flanks and rear of enemy units, The best set-up for killing orks would be an LSS with heavy flamer and a 5 man scout squad with shotguns and a combi-flamer, I don’t usually suggest taking fists on these units since a 5 man squad will get wiped out by massed ork attacks before they would get the chance to use it.
When using these units try to keep them to the rear of the enemy units as much as possible, an ork general will want his troops to gain ground on your main force every turn and if they have to turn around to deal with the landspeeders its turns wasted, although it will become quite apparent how deadly a heavy flamer, flamer and 8 shotgun blasts can be.
If you understand these LSS teams are expendable you could try the following tactic:
Using scout move to be within 12” of the enemy and using first turn movement get behind or on the flanks of the enemy.
A land speeder moving at cruising speed can still fire a single weapon, and although the scouts onboard cannot they can disembark and fire.
So you move the landspeeder behind their unit and disembark the scouts so to allow a clear line of fire to the orks from the LSS heavy flamer.
After a volley of fire from the above mentioned weapons the orks should have taken a fair few casualties. If they then charge and kill your scouts, your land speeder is free to fire again in the following turn and a heavy flamer is deadly to orks, especially if they have bundled together following an assault.
This tactic does rely on certain points, positioning of models which can be learned by trial and error, assuming the orks will charge and assuming the orks will kill 5 scouts in a single turn which isn’t a hard thing to imagine.
Either way it’s a turn spent moving in the wrong direction and the orks will have taken a number of casualties.
This can be combined with long range fire from bolter/sniper units to whittle the numbers down even further, but with an ork army having many such units its far more likely they will be on their own.
A land speeder storm can be used in a similar way if taken unoccupied, since speeders can fire their weapons at cruising speed all you have to do is keep it moving and orks will need 4s to hit it and 6s to get glancing hits. This slim chance may keep the orks moving forward and let you get a few more turns of shooting. Realistically though massed attacks will kill a storm.
With this tactic the more casualties the ork mob takes the less likely they are to down a speeder with massed attacks, so you could infact combine both tactics and once the expendable scout squad has disembarked you keep the speeder moving at cruising speed whilst flaming the enemy as much as possible.
Another use for a LSS is as mobile firebase, you can keep a unit of snipers in it at the back of your lines and as soon as the enemy gets nearer you can move off at great speed to a safer part of the battlefield, this also keeps the unit safe from small arms fire and would be great protection for an expensive unit such as 4 snipers and Telion.
Land speeder storms could be used as outflankers or using flat out speeds to get behind the enemy lines, if the speder is taken down, the scout squad can disembark and go on to create a diversion or hold a unit up for a turn.

Whilst these tactics are good against basic mobs, the LSS are vulnerable to ork firing, this includes shoota upgrades to mobs, and loota squads. Against these loota squads using the first turn to maneuver in a good flaming position may save you alot of trouble, after all how can a unit of lootas kill you if you kill half of them first and make them flee. If they have transports you may have to combine some anti-tank firing with the LSS's own, but with the unique nature of ork vehicle damage it does tend to make thi unreliable.
Needless to say destroying an ork transport may kill some onboard and will force a pinning test, this may prevent them from firing at you anyway.
Another issue to using LSS successfully is defkoptas, these ork biker wannabes have thier own scout moves and can prevent your own units from scouting close to the enemy. If you think this may be a problem try outflanking instead.

Scout bikes

Scout bikes grenade launchers are amazingly good against packed horde armies, in one of my own games I had 3 rapid firing launchers cause 9 kills on an ork mob, with their greater mobility they can kite the ork mobs straight back to your own lines, the scout and infiltrate rules means you can start quite close and harass them from turn one.
In assault Scout bikers toughness of 5 means orks will need 6s to wound if you get the charge off, the higher mobility of bikes makes this all the more possible and combined with pre assault rapid fire grenade launchers and bolter fire should be able to hold off a reasonably large ork mob. The sergeant can have a fist or a combi-flamer, I usually suggest the flamer but there may be times the fist will be needed.
The danger in this tactic is the hidden power klaw that can turn bikes into scrap, its best to avoid units with power klaws unless it’s absolutely necessary.

Assault

An ork warrior has an impressive stat line for his points cost, making them in my opinion one of the best troop choices in the game, he has S3, T4, I2 and 2 attacks with furious charge, what this means is if the orks get to charge they will do so with 3 attacks each (4 if armed with 2ccw) at S4, a unit of thirty orks can dish out an incredible 120 attacks in one turn and still be relatively cheap.
The furious charge however only works if the orks charge, if you charge them first they don’t get either the bonus strength or initiative, nor do they get the bonus attacks for charging.
The lower initiative of the orks always means scouts will attack first, for every ork you kill its one less ork that can attack back in the same turn, and when they do attack back they will need 5s to wound.
By far the best advice when taking on orks is charge them before they charge you.

Scout assault squad

If you have read my previous articles you may have seen this word crop up, what it means is a scout squad armed with close combat weapons, in some cases shotgunners are added to a squad for pre assault shooting but against orks with lower initiative this makes no difference and I usually opt for a full ccw squad.
The best set up is sergeant with combi-flamer and possibly fist, the low armour value of orks means power weapons aren’t necessary but the 2+ to wound can come in handy and is useful if you need to destroy a vehicle or ork dreadnought.
If you can get the charge a 10 man ccw squad combined with pre assault shooting/flaming, should be able to take on a kitted out ork mob, the biggest problem with scouts in assault is the lower WS, scouts will hit on 4s and orks only need 3’s to hit scouts, the 5s to wound does balance this however.

Winning combat

The best way to kill orks is to beat them in combat, if they are still a large enough unit to have fearless then they will take extra wounds if they lose combat, if they are below ten models then they can be run down, especially since they have low initiative.
Using the tips outlined above can help win combat, but if you take advantage of the Storms Cerberus launchers you can confer leadership modifiers to increase the margin of victory and make them run if below ten figures.
Infact you only need to win by a small margin if using Cerberus launchers as they confer a -2 per storm squad, this tactic works much better with more than one storm involved.

Telion

Telions eye of vengeance rule allows him to place wounds wherever his owning player likes, so by shooting ork mobs you can place the wounds on his nob and/or special weapons, though its important to note that Telion cannot place two wounds on the same model and as nobs have two wounds you will need two turns of firing to accomplish this.
The good thing is with Telions BS of 6, longer range and rending combined with ork armour saves means you should be able to cause at least a single wound per turn.
Once the power klaw armed nob has been killed your scout bikes or assault squad is free to move in without fear.
The only problem I can see with this tactic is that Telion wouldn’t be able to kill more than one or two nobs in a single game, and if you’re against an ork horde army with several mobs you may have to bite the bullet and accept a few more losses in combat.

Ork vehicles

I have outlined how to deal with large mobs on foot, but occasionally an ork player will use smaller mobs mounted in crude transports to cover the distance more quickly, with numbers of 12 or less these mobs are more easily dealt with but they are still dangerous in assault and must be dealt with decisively. By destroying the transports as early as possible you force the orks to footslog giving you more time to shoot them.
If an ork vehicle blows up the orks will also have to take pinning tests which can be very useful against smaller mobs.
I find that scout armies have few heavy weapons to achieve kills against vehicles, however since missile launchers go well with snipers I often find a unit of these is more than capable of destroying low armour transports, if the ML misses the rending snipers still stand a chance of doing damage.
The more heavily armoured battlewagons will have to be dealt with by LSS with multimeltas early on otherwise it may get to your lines undamaged, and since battlewagons are the transport of choice for ork warbosses with nob squads its best to get them out in the open as early as possible.
General ork machines like wartrucks are not too difficult to deal with, generally the low BS of orks keeps them from being too much of a nuisance and can be ignored, and if the chance arises the AV10 can be bested by krak grenades in combat with relative ease.

Nobs

Nob squads are ork equivalent of space marine veterans or command squads, they are much tougher than standard orks and have 2 wounds each, also their initiative is 3, so with the charge they can attack simultaneously with space marines whilst being armed with all manner of power weapon equivalents or strength enhancing big choppas and the like.
Much like an apothecary orks have access to painboys which can grant FNP onto the nob squads, which combined with their wounds makes them a difficult unit to kill.
The best way is with sniper squads, the rending hits negate FNP and armour saves whilst missile launchers can insta-kill a T4 nob although he will get an FNP save against this.
If you shoot at this unit with Telion the painboy is probably the best target for his EOV hits as the FNP can cause a few upsets and keep the unit coming at you long after they should have been wiped out.
Another idea is to make best use of combi-weapons, a combi-melta can instakill a nob whilst ignoring FNP, whilst a S7 combi-plasma would ignore FNP but not insta-kill, you do howver get the second shot at rapid fire range.

Nob bikers

A lot of people comment on nob biker squads, these units are very tough as they gain an extra toughness and higher mobility on top of all the above.
Again snipers and MLs are the way to go, note that the T5 of bikes can still be insta-killed by a S8 weapon and snipers always wound on a 4.
However the biggest problem with facing Nob bikers is their cover save from smoke, to bypass this flamers can be very useful and if you happen to have a LSS in the area a quick blast wouldn’t go a miss.

Army building

In order to beat orks you will need a good mix of weapons, in my lists I go infantry heavy using 6 full squads of scouts, 2 sniper squads, 2 with bolters and the final two a mix of shotguns and ccws for LSS duties and assaults.
The snipers despite being single shot weapons will usually be in high demand, but don’t be tempted to take too many as the multi-shot weapons will be needed to thin the mobs numbers.
Snipers will be good at killing nobs, bikes and low AV vehicles and towards the middle/end of the game be useful for pinning small ork mobs, for this reason I would suggest not putting Telion in with sniper squads. I would instead put him in with bolter armed scouts as its these that will be targeting the ork mobs and Telion needs to be knocking off power klaw armed nobs if you’re to beat the orks in combat.
A couple of LSS with heavy flamers would do well alongside a unit of scout bikes, if you were up against an opponent who uses battlewagons equipping one of the LSS with a multimelta would be a good idea (also the scout sergeant inside for redundancy), perhaps even a combi-melta on the bike sergeant.

Tactics

What we need to understand is we cannot avoid combat with ork armies, there are just too many to kill, so our priorities are to reduce the ork units into manageable sizes and knock out transports early on to get more turns of firing, fast units like stormboys and bikes must also be dealt with relatively early to avoid being tied up in combat.
If we use LSS and bikes to hold up key enemy units we can give ourselves the extra turn of firing which could prove invaluable once combat begins.
And once they are close enough charge them before they charge you, even if it means using pistols instead of rapid firing bolters.
units of Nobs and warbosses should be ideally be dealt with by shooting, unless you are using a suitably powerful HQ element that can counter this unit.
Once the orks get close, they can trigger a waaagh which gives them fleet, remember to consider this when thinking of the suitable time to strike.

HQ choices

There are a few HQ choices that could help against orks, vulkan for eaxmple can twin link all your flamer and melta weapons, making it easier for your LSS to destory battlewagons and increases thier effectiveness by re-rolling failed heavy flamer wounds on ork mobs.
Khan is a good choice as most ork warbosses (bar special characters) dont have eternal warrior, and his special ability to instant kill would be helpful at dealing with these threats aswell as tough nob units. His furious charge can be used to cripple ork units as wounding on 3's will mean more ork casulties, put him in with a scout assault squad or scout bikers and watch them tear apart mobs with relative ease.
A chaplain may be a useful choice to accompany an assault squad, re-rolling missed attacks from ten scouts (31 attacks) is well worth the cost.

Beating horde armies

I often talk about a scout armies greatest strength being set-up, infiltrate and scout move. Against an ork horde this is definately the case, even if you fail to win first turn you still set up the majority of your units last.
There are two main trains of thought to setting up, the first is a refused flank technique. By setting up a solid line of shooting units on one flank you can destroy the enemy directly infront and the units on the far side will need an extra turn or two to get to you, enabling you to take apart the ork horde piece by piece. For this to work you would need a few large units of bolter and sniper scouts, perhaps using a unit of ccw scouts as last minute defenders to rush forward and take the survivors down. In this scenario you can combine the scout bikers kiting on the refused flank, giving your opponent the choice too chase this unit without success or head towards your main lines, if he choses the latter it enables your scout bikes to get behind his lines and create havoc.
Two main points to making this succeed are killing transports early and dealing with loota squads and shooting elements that can down even your scout bikers.
The LSS can either be used as stalling suicide units as described earlier or as sweeper units hiding behind your main lines to rush forward and deal with the remnants of ork units before they can charge you.
The second method would be the use of combat squads as speed bumps, essentially sacrificing 5 man squads to halt the enemy into rapid fire range, it would be best to keep the combi-flamer armed sergeants in the rearmost units as the orks will be closely packed and close to your lines after the assault.
The LSS and bikes should be used as hard hitting reactive units, shooting and attacking these ork threats, essentially using your faster moveing units to plug gaps after the sacrifice of your combat squads, using all the force you can muster to destroy each threat as it arises.

Battlewagon lists

Some ork players like to build ork lists around massed battlewagons, taking nob squads as troops choices under a special rule from thier warbosses.
With AV14 on the front you would need multi-meltas on the LSS and combi-meltas on scout sergeants, as he would be running a low model count the use of scout combat squads as suicide troops to deliver meltabombs and krak grenades on rear armour AV10 could be a good strategy. The main targets of your anti-tank being his battlewagons being used as transports for the nob squads and warbosses, as soon as these are in the open, use sniper fire and massed bolters to kill them.
Taking a chapter master to get access to orbital bombardment may be adviseable, but the scatter problems associated with it makes the weapon hit or miss despite the large size of the target vehicles.

Ork shooty builds

Orks can build lists around lootas and killa kans/deff dreads that have a massive amount of high strength firepower, so much so the lower BS of orks is negated somewhat, lists like this can be extremely tough for scouts to beat as even the lootas can be given power klaw armed nobs and killa kans/dreads have strong cc abilities.
Again basic ork tactics apply, so template weapons for mobs, the heavy bolter hellfire shells in particular would be great against large units of orks, whilst snipers and ML's can be used against the low armour kans (AV11 IIRC).
Again Telion can be used to snipe nobs from thier squads and as ork shoota boys dont have the extra ccw attack they are slightly easier to beat in close combat.

Problematic units and ork tactics

A big mek with kustom force field is a bane of many gamers, they essentially grant a 4+ cover save to vehicles and a 5+ to infantry, often he will accompany a nob squad in battlewagon or be used alongside the spam dread lists. The latter will involve him moving at the same pace of the dreads which gives Telion more time to single him out, but with the inv save and 2 wounds its doubtful you could kill more then ne of these in a game, and an ork general can take two.
I would suggest killing these as quickly as possible, flame weapons ignore cover saves so LSS could be useful, however they would not likely get a second chance with so many dreads around.
Another option is to use a scout bike squad or LSS team to counter him in close combat, this will depend on the nature of his use though, as many ork players will put him in an equally deadly unit to keep him safe and make best use of his KFF.
The good thing is he is an IC and with higher intitiative you can single him out, as soon as he is dead your snipers and anti-tank weapons should have more luck felling the dreads.
In the former choice of battlewagon, getting first turn meltabomb/fist/krak grenades attacks on the stationary vehicle would be the best way, but again is dependant on other factors, if the orks have units around the vehicle you may not get close enough.
As soon as the wagon is destroyed you have more time to try to counter this unit.

Meganobs are one of the deadliest units for scouts to face, with 2 wounds each, 2+ armour saves and the equivalent of rapid firing storm bolters with the option of taking twin linked skorchas (heavy flamers) they cna tear through scouts with ease. To counter these combi-wepaons like plasmas and meltas are going to be very handy, failing that a good HQ choice and/or power weapons that can ignore the 2+ armour and hit first against power klaw armed nobs are going to be your only hope.

Conclusion

Some good points to know when taking on scouts are:
Use set-up, infiltrate and scout moves to your advantage, outflank if its necessary.

Telion is best taken with bolter scouts as opposed to snipers.

If there is no other choice charge orks rather than let them dictate charges.

Try and give yourself as much time as possible, killing transports and pinning smaller units may give you an extra turns shooting, whilst fast moving bikers and koptas should be dealt with quickly to avoid them tarpitting your units.

WIP, feel free to comment

[GreatEscape_13]

Looks really good. I like some of your suggestions.

 

Some things to consider:

 

Section: Mobs

They tend to take units of 30--seems much more common in the green tide style

 

There's a strong movement amongst ork players toward Battlewagon spam currently, which means more smaller squads of Nobz or Meganobz (two of which can be troops choices if they take two warbosses) that rely less upon their size for morale and more upon devastating attacks.

 

Section: Shooting

I'd at least address your options if the opponent goes for the battlewagon line. Orks can field 9 total in a single force organization chart if they're really grubby. So all the low-strength templates in the world won't help as much if the orks are coming in AV 14 front armor vehicles that can form a wedge of AV14.

 

Section: Scout Bikes

I know they address two different things, but maybe group them together--two headings both about Scout Bikes is a bit confusing. Have some general tactics, then unit-specific ones?

 

Cheers.

[greatcrusade08]

Yup no probs ill join the categories together to avoid confusion.. the mobs ill change (i thought it was max 20) and ill put battlewagon spam under its own section as its a army build rather than a one off difficult unit type (which has been covered)

thanks

 

Gc08

[waaanial00]

GC - Good Stuff. I will comment more tomorrow after I have recovered from my 4 game losing streak over the weekend (took a fluffy army to what I thought was going to be a fluffy local tournament and got well and truely kicked - Nob biker list, 6 Penetant Engines Witch Hunter and then Vulkan list ouch!).

 

One thing I will mention before going offline is that in your section about Cerebus launchers it insinuates that it adds to combat resolution, it does not. It modifies the leadership which means that if you are charging a unit of 30 Orks the Cerebus Launchers are not going to make any difference because you will have to kill 20 of the Orks before you get the modifier. It also wont affect no retreat wounds so winning by 1 against a fearless Ork unit will still only mean 1 fearless wound.

 

Whilst I am thinking about it I would point out that running skimmers to bait mobs against most Ork builds is a bad plan, Lootas will knock them out of the sky fairly rapidly if left buzzing around. Much better to use them in outflanking moves where you keep them in reserve to dash out and kill these annoying units really quickly.

 

Be wary of Deffkoptas denying you scout moves as well. These crazy contraptions can scout as well so can effectively block some cruicial scouting moves if you do not deploy first.

 

Wan

[Ryjak]

Battlewagons are only AV12 on the side and AV10 in the back, so a LSS could easily get a flank shot with that Multi-melta, and the squad inside could also fire a combi-melta, giving a pretty good chance of taking it out. Further, if for some reason it doesn't move 6+ inches, you can also assault it with Scouts and plant Krak Grenades.

 

Odds are the Battlewagon will do its job and deliver some Close Combat Killers into your lines, so try to bait them to attack a sacrificial unit and shoot them after they kill it.

[Brother Pugnax]

Nice guide.

 

It might be worthwhile to consider the "dakka" mob setup. Waaanial00 has a good point about lootaz being very dangerous to LSS's, but an ork army packing a metric ton of big shootaz (S5 assault 3) can almost be as dangerous. If they're taken as upgrades on large mobz armed with shootaz, they can whittle down a scout squad from outside of double-tap range, or glance a LSS to death with an occasional penetrating hit. A thirty strong shoota mob (with max big shoota upgrades) could theoretically kick out 52 S4 and 9 S5 shots a turn (and still have a Pklaw nob). Even with ork BS, that kind of firepower can still do a lot of damage.

Another ork shooting unit to pay attention to is the mighty killa kan. They can be taken as squadrons of 1-3, have BS 3, and can choose from a mess of weapon options. They can be nasty. They're especially dangerous to scouts with a big shoota or grotzooka (S6 blast weapon with 2 shots) since they can rain a large volume of lead down with surprising accuracy. If they're packing rokkitz for some anti-tank punch, then the LSS's could be in some real trouble. And of course, they can still kick out S10 DCCW attacks. As far as weaknesses, their AV 11 and squadron rules make them fairly fragile to anything over S6, but still are vulnerable to those S5 heavy bolters.

Just a few thoughts on some units it's worth keeping an eye on/maybe mentioning.

[Moonsword]

*looks at the dakka horde*

 

I'm going to vote for staying hidden and calling in an air strike, preferably using something along the lines of this armed with plenty of these and a few of these, too, for both shock value and burning the spores so you don't get to handle them all over again a few decades later.

 

For those of us who can't call in air cover to handle the problem, some rocket launchers to kill off Kans from a distance and apply blast templates sounds like a good option.

[xxvaderxx]

Jus a few coments here and there.

 

+Unless spesified on the ork codex FNP, under core rules, does not work against instant death, neither do they benefit from the bikes +1T gainst it. So i would say that misile lunchers are ideal against orks (blast + insta death against bikers).

[waaanial00]

Jus a few coments here and there.

 

+Unless spesified on the ork codex FNP, under core rules, does not work against instant death, neither do they benefit from the bikes +1T gainst it. So i would say that misile lunchers are ideal against orks (blast + insta death against bikers).

 

Maximum an all scout force is going to have 1 ML per squad. For arguments sake they will have 4 (pretty generous I think) 1 of which will be using Telion (ok again not the norm but not beyond the realm of possibilities). This means that on turn 1 you will have 3 ML shooting at BS3 and 1 shooting at BS 5. That effectively means 2 hits, both will wound unless you are unlucky. 1 will be allocated to the Warboss and 1 to a normal sacrificial Nob biker. If the Warboss fails his saving throw he still gets FNP because his base toughness is 5.

 

Then the nob bikers will move up to 24" forwards and can charge a unit 18" away, however not counting any sniper fire the majority of those 4 units of scouts will have wasted their shooting (range likely) and the snipers will not do much unless taken in large numbers. Thus missile launchers are not the answer to nob bikers by a long shot.

 

Oh and if they are blasting they are scattering up to 9" and are only S4 (5's to wound, 4+ save, 4+ FNP with a single reroll from the grot orderly) so again not the answer.

 

Heavy flamers are nice, ignoring both armour and cover but the unit is likely to still get their 5+ invul save and then FNP. Means for every 6 Nobs hit you get under the template you cause 1 wound to get through their combination of cybork body and FNP.

 

Absolute best way to neuter them is to hide on the first floor of some building. There is a reason why the nob biker list is a much feared tournament list.

 

More to come

 

Wan

[xxvaderxx]

Srry didnt realized this was a pure scount army, i meant it for a nilla or more balanced one.

[greatcrusade08]

Thanks guys, as always my first draft needs some work, which is why i always rely on my B&C buddies :huh:

Ill add in the comments and change some of the bad/incorrect wording..

Ill add in a section about massed lootas as an army build, are there any more army builds ork players tend to bring out, how about deff dread spam?

 

GC08

[waaanial00]

Thanks guys, as always my first draft needs some work, which is why i always rely on my B&C buddies ;)

Ill add in the comments and change some of the bad/incorrect wording..

Ill add in a section about massed lootas as an army build, are there any more army builds ork players tend to bring out, how about deff dread spam?

GC08

 

See now is where you get into crunch time. A fairly quick list that I just threw together at 1500 is the following:

 

2 Big Meks - KFF, 5+ invul, 4+ armour - These guys give vehicles a 4+ cover and infantry 5+ cover

 

2 x 13 Lootas - Will wreck any AV12 vehicle in one shooting phase and ruin your scouts outside of cover

 

2 x 20 Shoota Boys with Power Klaw, Bosspole and Big Shootas - These guys pump out a viscious amount of fire power and will club your scouts in CC

 

3 x Deff Dreads (2 counts as Troops) 2 Burnas each, on a 4+ will become mobile again and have reinforced armour - These are Dreadnoughts with more attacks and with the KFF will get a 4+ cover save to any ranged shooting.

 

3 x Killa Kans Rokkit Launchas - BS3 S8 AP3 24" guns plus a S10 WS2 (ha ha ha) hit in CC. These guys will likely run then start targeting your bikes or any high priority targets.

 

3 x Killa Kans big shootas - BS3 S5 AP5 36". These guys will concentrate on your scouts whilst slowly marching towards your lines.

 

Total

1500

 

11 KP

2 Scoring units

 

At 1750 expect more troops, 1 less dread and more killa kans.

 

 

This army may not do that well against Vanilla Marines but will likely put a big hurting against a pure scouts as they lack the ranged weaponry in enough volume to overcome their reduced accuracy. Those KFF will ruin most ranged efforts to take the Kans and Dreads down, those lootas will kill your fast stuff very quickly (unless it outflanks).

 

The thing about the "Dread Bash" list is that it will move at the speed of the KFF protecting it. The lack of battlewagons will mean that the shoota boys will likely get killed with some sensible target prioritisation but again those KFF will be your bane. Telion will only be able to target one of them and they both have 2 wounds and a 4+ 5++ save.

 

Make sure you target those Kans, they are a Vehicle Squadron and therefore make those Imobilised results count. Even a kan without a DCCW can still tarpit your troops so make sure you kill them.

 

Hope this helps (dont know why I am helping you before our clash GC, you are getting all my inside knowledge - That Chaplain is as good as yours)

 

Wan

[waaanial00]

Mobs -

 

A unit of Orks will ALWAYS have a Nob with Power Klaw if they can. There are a few oddball exceptions to this rule but in the main its true. There is a saying amoungst the green skin fraternaty "feed them boys till they choke of the klaw". Its usual that the MEQ kills a mob will make are usually the power klaw ones. A Nob with power klaw is going to be attacking 3 times at S8 even when charged, 4 times at S9 when it charges you.

 

Boys units will either beat 12 (in a trukk), 20 or 30.

 

Mob rule is much more than making the unit fearless above 10. It replaces the leadership of the unit with the number of models in it. This means that even at 10 models they are unlikely to fail a LD check for pinning. LD of a Nob or Ork is 7 though so below 8 this rule is for naught. Learn who gets this rule, grots do not so a Weirdboy (psyker) will not be checking psychic tests at LD10 if he is with 10 grots (I have seen this from across the room more than once).

 

Bosspoles, getting tired of explaining this to every opponent I play as Orks so I will clear this up here. A Nob will be able to take a piece of equipment that will allow him to reroll a LD check, he does this by wounding a model (not the owner of the poll) in the mob it is attached to. So dont be surprised if you see a unit rolling a LD check, followed by a single dice, removing an ork then rolling a LD check again.

 

 

Shooting -

 

Orks being one of the most random units in the 40K world have access to a particularly funky piece of tech. The Kustom Force Field. This wonderful bit of kit allows any unit which have a single model within 6" of the IC holding this kit to gain a cover save of 5+. This applies differently to a vehicle as it counts the vehicle as obscured therefore a 4+ save.

 

This means that unless it is a flamer template, expect every Ork vehicle and unit within proximity to oen of these blighters to get a cover save, even in the open.

 

Given that the average ork has a save of 6+ and very few more than 4+ this kit is target 1 for any Telion shots. The owner of the kit will likely be in a transport (battlewagon) but put simply if you want to kill the Ork armour you need to kill this guy. I have had many a game where a single trukk survives a whole turn of firing because everything just pings off the force field.

 

Again pinning is only worth it when the unit is below 10 and even then is not a guarentee. Target the smaller elite units with these weapons, shooting Nob units with snipers is a sure fire way of getting a decent pinning result (LD7 not usually larger than 8 to start off with).

 

 

Scout bikers -

 

There will be no power klaw in the following units

Lootas

Grots

Grot Artillery

 

Aside from that unless you cap the klaw with Telion you are unlikely to find a unit without one. Just best to accept the inevitable losses and charge the weakest unit you can find. DO NOT charge Nobs with these, multiple wounds, better armour, multiple Klaws, better weapons and more attacks will lead to you getting a severly bloody nose.

 

Telion -

 

Not sure if you should never fear assaulting an Ork mob. A standard CC Ork is more than capable of killing a CC scout even though they go last.

 

You are also not going to be able to do this tactic if you are faced off against a kult of speed Ork Army (all in trukks or battlewagons).

 

 

Ork Vehicles -

 

Ork Trukks do not follow the usual patter of vehicle damage. If you manage to destroy or explode the vehicle then it will do one of three things:

 

Just explode as per normal rules (pinning)

Go 3D6" in a random direction (stopping 1" away from cover/enemy units/friendly units) then explode as above (pinning)

Counts as wrecked but those on board suffer no affects (no pinning)

 

So in some cases destroying an ork trukk actually means they not only get closer to you but also take out some of your troops as well. Imobilising an ork transport is far better than destroying it so, as bizare as it sounds, shooting more lower strength weapons at it is better than few higher. You run better chances at glancing it and forcing no move or fire or imobilised. (Nothing angers me more as an ork player when the penetrating effect fails to destroy my trukk as I get better effects if they do).

 

Battlewagons are best dealt with in combat as their rear armour is 10. NEVER shoot at the front armour if you can help it, even with multi meltas. AV12 side just screams to be shot at. Depressing thing with Battlewagons is that their contents are usually 10 times more troublesome than the vehicle itself. Therefore killing the vehicle is not always the whole story.

 

Orks can field a bewildering number of Walkers in a list type referred to as Dread Bash. Examples can range from 9 Killa Kans (AV11 but better shooting) and 2 Deff Dreads (AV12 and up to 5 Attacks on the charge) to a whole 5 Deff Dreads. As scouts struggle with walkers these lists can prove particularly taxing.

 

Nobs -

 

Painboys have a poisioned weapon which allows the nob to reroll wounds in CC. Not particularly ground breaking but it is a little known rule in 5th Ed.

 

On the charge even a standard Nob will have 5A S5 so do everything you can to stop them from charging.

 

Nobs can have 4+ 5++ and FNP so they are a tough cookie to crack. Note that by RAW a painboy cannot have a 4+ save (point to the painboy example in the flash gits entry to prove that Painboys do not keep the equipment when they get upgraded) so they are a little easier to kill if not on a bike.

 

Nob Bikers -

 

These beauties can have the following saves:

4+ Armour,

5++ Invul,

4+++ Cover (always)

FNP

 

Therefore they are one of the toughest troops choice in the game IMO. You are likely to run into the old wound allocation trick whereby each nob is slightly different and therefore each has to be allocated a wound individually, thus making them even tougher to kill.

 

Heavy Flamers are better than flamers against these as no everyone takes the 5++ so you are essentially wounding on a 4+ and they only have a 4+ FNP save.

 

Flamers still mean 4+ Save then 4+ FNP so you are looking at 1 wound in 4.

 

Mega Armoured Nobs -

 

These havent been covered yet. Think slow and purposeful terminators with 1 more wound, no invul and a twin linked 18" Storm bolter. These guys will be a nightmare for scouts if they get within your ranks. In a trukk with a Warboss providing better LD and a Bosspole these guys will get into combat and mutilate your scouts with the sheer number of power klaw attacks.

 

They can also have kombi Skorchas (combi heavy flamers) which will make an absolute mess of a scout squad in next to no time.

 

Battlewagon lists -

 

There are several types of lists which encorporate a "large" number of Battlewagons. Here are three.

 

Deffwing - 2 Warbosses, 2 Mega Armoured Nob units as Troops in Battlewagons, up to 3 Mega Armoured Nobs in Battlewagons as Elites. Scary prospect for a scout unit though the Nobs themselves are slow so you will be able to out manouver them.

 

Battlewagon Blitz - As many small Mega Armoured Nobs units and Nobs units as possible to increase the number of battlewagons. A little scary as Nobs are better at fighting and pack more specialist gear but they will make a smaller army.

 

3 Battlewagon spearhead - 3 Battlewagons with 20 boys in each. The rest is just filler around this concrete core. You will find at least 1 KFF in there and at least 1 Nobs unit kicking around bringing their own battlewagon.

 

All three mean that you will suffer larger initial casualties if you cannot bring down the Battlewagons early in the game. Without any chance to soften up the 20 Orks inside the battlewagon you will suffer lots of kills. Consider forming two lines at this point. One to take the charge and one to shoot the orks afterwards.

 

Either way pack some seriously fast anti tank (scout bikers and LSS with multi meltas) and target that side armour!

 

Hope some of this hard earnt knowledge does you some good. Though if you could forget some of it when you battle me I would be greatful ;)

 

Wan

[Moonsword]

Something to keep in mind is that, if he's feeling ambitious, an Ork player can field nearly a hundred Boyz and some upgrades in a 750 point game. And it only gets worse with more points, because those Boyz get a lot meaner.

 

If you can fit it into your vision, Whirlwinds might be useful for their blast templates, just to start chopping mobs down to size before they get in your face.

[greatcrusade08]

Thanks Wan ive really got to find the time to get this written up properly, all this info is extremely useful..

 

Gc08

[greatcrusade08]

The updated mark II version is up, please have a read through and let me know if ove missed any points or have made any mistakes... thanks guys

 

Gc08

[Brother Pugnax]

Quick note: lootaz can't take PKlaws. It might be worth mentioning that they have Ld. issues because that can't take a Nob, so they're probably the most likely ork unit to turn tail after soaking a few wounds.

 

Other than that, looks solid.

[MMEagle]

Hi Matt, you may know me as The Eagle The Bat or the kid that never turns up from BWG :D (Max)

 

Very good tactics, and I will be worried if you ever play my Ork army. :)

 

 

Just some points on all these comments about Nobs with PK's.

Always take a Nob when possible I agree, but Power Klaws can be a waste of points. Take one or two for against Land Raiders if needs be, but a Big Choppa will be as good.

Ork Nob on the charge with a Big Choppa means 4 attacks at S7 and I4. Much better than with the Power Klaw, as you are going at the same time as most people and wounding them on the same. Now I know you're going to say that Power Klaws grant Instant Death, but the sheer number of attacks you should be getting in will sort that out anyway, and most tanks are AV10 on the rear so you will usualy be penetrating or at least glancing. Power Klaws aren't realy worth the 20 extra points I believe, though I always take 3 or 4 just to be safe.

[greatcrusade08]

Hi Max.

i see what your saying, but its best to always assume the orks will bring a PK on thier ork squads, a big choppa vs power armour or god forbid terminator armour is going to bounce like kelis.

if an ork horde turns up without a PK dreadnoughts will be able to tie down whole mobs on thier own

[MagicMan]

I play against foot Orks a lot, and the PK is about 75% of the the threat i feel from Ork Boys.

 

Despite the fact that i fail over half of my power armour saves..

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I don't think many players use the Big Choppa over a power klaw. Both wound on a 2+ but the key advantages the Klaw has over a Big Choppa is ignoring armour saves and a weapon against Walkers which might tie up a mob. That is the reason people use them. I'd be a happy bunny if someone used a Big Choppa instead, since I'd still get my armour saves!

[Brother Tual]

I would like to see a more detailed tactics section. The suggestions presented are very basic but dont actually assist a player applying a scout list.

 

I know you have put in alot of work but you are on the edge of something brilliant here mate.

 

You touched on refused flank - talk about how you do this - talk about why you do this - talk about how it effects the game - talk about its strengths/weaknesses - talk about how the ork player will react - talk about when/when not to do this. What is the goal of a refused flank?

 

I personally play against hoard in a 300 style - block them, contain and pit your 5 elites VS their whole army. Restrict the hoard to their deployment zone - They need momentuum. Take that away. I dont have time to explain it now and it is not really a scout thing (elite scouts - bah)

 

I will help you with this if you want, I dont use scouts on the scale you do though...

[greatcrusade08]

yeah your right i started writing the basics and then didnt go much further than that.. i did very much intend to write a 2.0 but never got round to it

 

i should really get on and do it, but i may be asking for your assistance :)

 

edit: infact im playing a game tonight with a new direction in scout armies, might prove fruitful, either way ill start writing notes on the weekend

[MagicMan]

I personally play against hoard in a 300 style - block them, contain and pit your 5 elites VS their whole army. Restrict the hoard to their deployment zone - They need momentuum. Take that away. I dont have time to explain it now and it is not really a scout thing (elite scouts - bah)

 

 

 

I'd love to read that.

 

 

Im still a 50/50 win ratio against Ork Horde. Partly dude to limited unit selection, but still.

[Brother Tual]

I'd love to read that.

 

with scouts or marines?