greatcrusade08 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 This is a discussion thread for bringing together ideas and tactics on battling chaos with an all scout force. Feel free to add or comment on any points. Thanks Gc08 Alot of the basics will be taken from the marine tactica found here Does anyone have any ideas on obliterators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I'd say sniper fire and plenty of it. I'm not familiar enough with the hellfire rounds to go one way or the other on that one, although they could be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Sniper Squads with Telion and/or HB. The Hellfire Rounds work nicely, but you need more than just them due to the multi-wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 i suppose that would work, dont they have inv saves like termies though?? Are there any other chaos only units that could mess up scouts? Daemon princes are pretty much sniper food though ^_^ Gc08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Yeah, they have Invul. saves. So, you just have to bring the rain. Alternatively, Speeders with MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 Yeah, they have Invul. saves. So, you just have to bring the rain. Alternatively, Speeders with MM. Yeah i was thinking combi-plasmas at close range too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 5+ invulnerable save. Possibly forcing them to go to ground (unlikely, but it can happen, and it shuts down their return fire next turn if it does) is another fun advantage of sniper fire against them. The 1-in-6 chance of a rending hit skipping their armor save was why I suggested sniper fire, as well as the ability to force him to roll plenty of saves because you have a 50% chance of wounding, regardless of his Toughness. Once that's done, see if you can introduce the regular Chaos Marines, Raptors, Berserkers, Plague Marines, and Noise Marines to the joys of a 1-in-6 chance of a case of Sudden Terminal Death thanks to rending, and Plague Marines or others with the Mark of Nurgle may be a good target because you're bypassing their extra Toughness. Rubric Marines are not your favored prey here, because they'll still have a 50% chance of saving from the Invulnerable save, so try to nibble at their supporting elements if you can. You can also weaken Chaos Spawns with your 50% to wound against their Toughness 5, which will make dealing with them when they get to you easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 Rubric marines are probably best dealt with in CC arent they, those pesky AP3 bolters are nasty, but they only have 1 attack each with low intiative. GC08 Edit: nurgle marines are nasty, T5 FNP is a bugger, so yeah sniper fire FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Note: I'm a theorist, not an experienced practitioner, when it comes to this game. My tricks with Scouts are coming out of your article, so be wary of possible tactical incest. Generally, I favor Scouts as supporting units in lists to offer tactical flexibility, not a list of Scouts. You're not going to get a lot of units pinned against Chaos, since they generally have high leadership, but I favor inflicting the possibility of botching the check on them simply because tarballing them - or forcing certain units, like Obliterators, to sit down and stop shooting - is going to have an impact on the way your opponent thinks, and it can always break in your favor. Don't rely on it, but one thing I like to do if I can fairly cheaply in any tactical games is give the great Daemon Murphy as many chances to screw the other guy over as I can, since sooner or later, something is going to go horribly, horribly wrong. Land Speeders with anti-armor weapons may be necessary, since you've got some fairly unpleasant options buried at the back of his list, and just turning Rhinos into immobile bricks can be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedrial Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Land Speeder Storm armed with a Multi-Melta goes after the Obliterators first turn. Scouts disembark, Sergeant should have a comb-plasma, shotguns on the scouts. With the combi-plasma, multi-melta, and 4 shotguns, one kill or 2 wounds on the Oblits. Give a Power Fist to the Sarge. Combat result is one unsaved wound scored, plus about 50/50 chance of you getting another 2 wounds on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 very helpful thanks guys! Are there any other chaos only units that will need special attention, im a little out of my confort zone with this one. Gc08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Your problem with Chaos are the following units: Obliterators - well everyone hates these guys Lash Demon Prince - No Force Hood and very little transports to hide in Plague Marines - Defensive Grenades, 2CC Weapons, Bolter, T5, FNP (whoever thought this was a good combination for a troops choice needs a kicking) Basically you can face an entire army of these three units at 1500 points. Your sniper rifles will likely be forced to choose the Prince and have a hell of a time trying to kill it. Your scouts will flail miserably against the plague marines in both shooting and CC. At the same time you will be forced to move around bunching up whilst the Obliterators plasma cannon you to death, whilst the DP's just advance towards your lines. All the while the Plague Marines will move towards your troops in Rhinos then get out to maul you with bolter fire and then use their massive toughness advantage to close within CC and then they will have you. Watch out for Icons in the plague marine units calling down Deep striking Obliterators, those things will be a menace once they are close in. TL Heavy Flamers efficiently mauling your scouts in cover or killing your bikes, they are also equally good at killing your Storms. Its depressing fighting Chaos with Marines because if they are not a fluffy list it seems like a massive up hill climb ;) A tactic that I am still waiting to perform is to block the Icons power in turn 2 by placing my Storms near them, thus forcing them to deep strike somewhere else. Against a mobile Chaos army try to remove his Rhinos ASAP. Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Your problem with Chaos are the following units: Obliterators - well everyone hates these guys Lash Demon Prince - No Force Hood and very little transports to hide in Plague Marines - Defensive Grenades, 2CC Weapons, Bolter, T5, FNP (whoever thought this was a good combination for a troops choice needs a kicking) Basically you can face an entire army of these three units at 1500 points. Your sniper rifles will likely be forced to choose the Prince and have a hell of a time trying to kill it. Your scouts will flail miserably against the plague marines in both shooting and CC. At the same time you will be forced to move around bunching up whilst the Obliterators plasma cannon you to death, whilst the DP's just advance towards your lines. All the while the Plague Marines will move towards your troops in Rhinos then get out to maul you with bolter fire and then use their massive toughness advantage to close within CC and then they will have you. Watch out for Icons in the plague marine units calling down Deep striking Obliterators, those things will be a menace once they are close in. TL Heavy Flamers efficiently mauling your scouts in cover or killing your bikes, they are also equally good at killing your Storms. Its depressing fighting Chaos with Marines because if they are not a fluffy list it seems like a massive up hill climb :( A tactic that I am still waiting to perform is to block the Icons power in turn 2 by placing my Storms near them, thus forcing them to deep strike somewhere else. Against a mobile Chaos army try to remove his Rhinos ASAP. Wan Wan pretty much hit it on the head. The only other units that are of particular interest are Berserkers, who will maul you in HtH combat and Defilers, which are basically the same as Dreadnoughts with a Battle Cannon. I reread your Scout Tactica and if we're limited to 3 units only (Scouts, LS Storm and Scout Bikes) I'd argue that it would be incredibly hard to win consistently. Sniper Rifles can be used against Daemon Princes and Plague Marines, but PM are typically in Rhinos, which means you have to open them up first. Missile Launchers are useful against both (firing Krak rounds) as they penetrate all armor saves, always wound on a 2+ and ignore FnP. The drawback is its BS3 so at max you'll have 6 firing a turn. The other option against PM and DPs is a buried Power Fist. Your basic attacks won't do much against either one, but a Power Fist will inflict some wounds. You'll have to get PM down to a manageable size first and hopefully put some wounds on a DP at range. Obliterators are best brought down by dakka and/or HtH. A unit of Shotgun/BP/CCW Scouts assaulting a pair of Obliterators (the typical squad size) will atleast keep them from shooting for awhile. Their 4+ armor save isn't a drawback since Obliterators come standard with a Power Fist. Just think of it as trying to win combat against 4 Terminators. Berserkers have to be taken down at range, they will gut Scouts like nothing else. You might as well be Guardsmen against them. Knock out their Rhino, then Bolter/Sniper Fire into them. Remember they die like any other MEQ but cost about 30% more. What other options are Scout Armies allowed to use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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