Grey area rules?

[F3d3x]

Your Grey area rules are not grey. They all have answers.

[Legatus]

They are considered "grey area" because neither side had managed to convince the others that their interpretation is correct. :blink:

[F3d3x]

Oh no I get that, but there were good arguments made in there, and people failing to acknowledge the actual rules.

 

But there are actual answers to all of them.

[OwlandMoonGuy]

If only an official source would back that up then we’d be all set.

 

-OMG

[F3d3x]

There is, its all in the rule book.

 

People try to be cool and find loop holes and what not, but really just a little reading goes a long way. People tend to look at things in a conformation bias sort of way.

[Kronk]

Welcome to the boards!

 

If you wish this to be a helpful thread, please go through the gray areas, pick out an "obvious" one, and share your insights.

[F3d3x]

Thanks!

 

Sorry should have been more clear, been a while since I slept =p.

 

I didn't want to open up other threads that have already been locked down. But I am one of those strange guys that likes rules. I couldn't just sit and see those questions in there as dice offs. Lots of people made really good and correct arguments it is sad that they are over looked.

[greatcrusade08]

I think an example would be called for, a blanket statement isnt really helpful..

 

Just like saying X is wrong, you should really explain yourself.... examples please.

 

Gc08

[nighthawks]

we are all certainly interested in the rules, which is why we all spend so much time in the OR. that said, please do elaborate upon the grey areas you see as obvious. it's possible that everyone overlooked a particular phrase in the book, but more likely that the rule is actually ambiguous and people have a feel or belief for how a rule should work that doesn't necessarily agree from player to player.

 

welcome to the B&C!

[Ryjak]

I just parused the Gray Area Rules sticky, and was curious about two things:

 

1) Why isn't there anything posted about Sniper Rifles? That was debated for a long time...

2) Has anyone that can act in an official B&C capacity (i.e. moderator) presented any of these to GW in an attempt to get an official ruling published somewhere?

3) If GW is unwilling to officially answer these, is there anyone else that would be 'universally' accepted as an impartial judge? Perhaps the Adepticon FAQ has a stance...

 

Just about everyone has an opinion on these, and for whatever reason, are absolutely convinced they are right. For me, I think it's pretty obvious:

 

1) Wounds from one unit's Pinning Weapons can only cause 1 pinning check.

2) GOI cannot be used to move out of HtH. (it doesn't say you can, while the Necron Veil of Darkness does state so.)

3) God of War does cause 'No Retreat!', just as Tyranid Synapse.

4) A combi-weapon is not a bolter (it's a combi-weapon) but the status of using that one shot doesn't matter for wound allocation.

5) Warptime lets you re-roll whatever you wish. (otherwise, what's the point?)

6) Soulless takes precedence over Rites of Battle.

[nighthawks]

@Ryjak,

 

second part first - lots of people agree with what you said, if not all of it. lots of others likewise disagree. it's the inability of either side to point at a passage of text that clearly supports their position (because there isn't one or the text is too ambiguous) that makes these rules grey areas. it's when things seem "pretty obvious" but in different ways to different people, that we argue.

 

Remember, it's hard to shake a man of his convictions without irrefutable facts. add in that new players never developed the paradigms of understanding that the veterans and those that come from other game systems have, and you have very well reasoned arguments (if not based 100% on RAW) that people honestly believe are how it should be done. Variations in translations and geographical considerations add to the trouble.

 

so it's not always as obvious as it seems. if it's not clearly spelled out. (and sometimes, even when it is!)

 

first part:

We started the Grey Areas thread not too long ago. we have not had much time to go back and populate it with the older arguments, largely because we want to point to the thread in question, and memories of older threads get muddy in a short amount of time. I have lists of rules that are grey, but not broken down cleanly as we prefer to do it in the grey areas sticky. if the rules are that grey, they will come back up, and we'll add them then.

 

we should forward the list to GW when it gets a bit longer. but many other well thought out "FAQs" and the like have seemingly fallen on deaf ears, I don't know why ours wouldn't, even if it is from the best 40k site in the world, and thus the best membership :angry:

[Ryjak]

I think your initial comments should be posted somewhere at the beginning of the 'Grey Rules' listing. For all the current grey rules, I understand why people think I'm way off-base with my interpretation... because it's an interpretation of a vague rule.

 

The reason why rules are important to us is simply because they serve as the impartial judge and referee during a game. Unfortunately, players are that ones that have to enforce the rules. Imagine watching a soccer game where the coaches are also the refs; that's what every game of 40k is.

[greatcrusade08]

When you come to redo the grey area rules (aimed at mods) you might find this useful. Its all the grey area rules for scouts...

I changed it about recently to show my own opinions, but feel free to use whatever you want from it.

 

Gc08

[Frogstaff]

Oh no I get that, but there were good arguments made in there, and people failing to acknowledge the actual rules.

 

But there are actual answers to all of them.

Nope, you're wrong about that. There are rare situations where two rules just butt heads and there's no good way to determine just how things are supposed to work out.