Trying to understand Ordnance, Barrage and Indirect fire

[Noise]

Hi, I'm looking to try a Vindicator with it's Demolisher cannon. But, I cannot figure out if ordnance weapons are automatically barrage weapons, and can choose to fire indirectly. I can't see any weapon types say both Ordnance AND barrage, of the ones listed in the back of the rule book. So...

 

1. Are ordnance weapons automatically barrage weapons?

2. Are barrage weapons per definition able to fire indirectly?

3. (Bonus question) If you hit models in area terrain with a blast marker, do they still get cover saves? - normal blast as well as barrage.

 

Thanks in advance :wub:

- Noise

[Agrab]

*edit*

cause i am stupid

[Ceddyn]

That's not correct, Agrab.

 

Ordnance just means it's a big gun that needs the full attention of your vehicle crew, so you cannot fire any other weapons on the vehicle that turn. If you roll for penetration from an ordnance shot you get to roll 2 dice and pick the highest. (p58 BRB). It says nothing about ordnance being barrage there. Furthermore right after the part about Ordnance weapons they explain ordnance barrage. If both were the same they wouldn't have to add that paragraph.

 

It seems they left out barrage for all weapons in the summary at the back of the BRB. There are several ordnance barrage examples in the codexes: space marine whirlwind, imperial guard basilisk. The vindicator however does not have a barrage weapon however. You can only fire it directly.

 

 

So in short:

1. No, they're not.

2. They can choose between direct or indirect. (you ignore the minimum range when firing directly)

3a. normal: saves from the direction of the gun.

3b. barrage: saves from the center of the blast template.

[Agrab]

That's not correct, Agrab.

 

Ordnance just means it's a big gun that needs the full attention of your vehicle crew, so you cannot fire any other weapons on the vehicle that turn. If you roll for penetration from an ordnance shot you get to roll 2 dice and pick the highest. (p58 BRB). It says nothing about ordnance being barrage there. Furthermore right after the part about Ordnance weapons they explain ordnance barrage. If both were the same they wouldn't have to add that paragraph.

 

It seems they left out barrage for all weapons in the summary at the back of the BRB. There are several ordnance barrage examples in the codexes: space marine whirlwind, imperial guard basilisk. The vindicator however does not have a barrage weapon however. You can only fire it directly.

 

 

So in short:

1. No, they're not.

2. They can choose between direct or indirect. (you ignore the minimum range when firing directly)

3a. normal: saves from the direction of the gun.

3b. barrage: saves from the center of the blast template.

 

i flipped it, read all barrage are they ordinance

[Frosty the Pyro]

i flipped it, read all barrage are they ordinance

 

You would still be wrong. There are lots of barrage weapons that are not ordance (for example mortors for IG or spore mines for 'Nids)

[Seahawk]

1. No (pg 58)

2. Yes (pg 32)

3. Yes (pgs 22 and 32)

 

It seems they left out barrage for all weapons in the summary at the back of the BRB

No, they're still there, just under a different form. "Note that in older Codex books barrage weapons were identified by having a G before their range (e.g. Range: G48"). This is the same as having the word 'barrage' under their Type." See? All bases covered :).

[Coyote]

Hi, I'm looking to try a Vindicator with it's Demolisher cannon.

Do, or do not. There is no 'try.'

Use more than 1. Trust me. ;)

[Legatus]

Hi, I'm looking to try a Vindicator with it's Demolisher cannon.

The Vindicators gun specifically is NOT barrage. There has been a lot of confusion because in the weapon summary on page 144 in the current Codex Space Marines that weapon is by mistake labeled as "barrage". The unit description on page 80 is correct in not having it described as a barrage weapon (and in the opast GW has often when there was a difference in unit description and summary advocated to refer to the unit description as the correct one). In the current Space Marines FaQ that mistake has also been adressed and corected.

The Demolisher of teh Vindicator is not a barrage weapon, just directly shooting ordnance.