Havokas Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Alright, space marines vs uber lists. Im looking for some ideas on how to fight them. where i play theres alot of super list makers so im having a little trouble im fairly new to 40k but i do alright. my main problem is these pro's running 7 valkries/vendettas in their armies. i can even expect at least 6 of them in 1500 what uber/cheezy lists have you fought? what do you do againt uber lists? what units might be concidered "cheeze" for space marine lists in 1500 - 1750 lists? i am thinking of drop-pod and land speeder themed list. once the enemy's main threats are on the table i land behind them and melta/assult cannon them to death. any comments appreciated ill take all the help i can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Apparently vulkan drop pod lists are a popular flavour at the moment (you could stick land speeders in if you wanted). If the metagame where you play is hard lists then take a hard list don't worry about cheese. I've played against Iron Warriors, Nidzilla and flying circus lists and much more over the years and I can't say any of them really bothered me. I guess the only way to have any great degree of success against against a top tier list run by a good player is to run your own. Personally 6 Valkyries don't really concern me by themselves but I don't know what else they have :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havokas Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 well its always a surprise but at least 2 of the valkries have special weapons squads with melta-guns and demo-charges. they can outflank and destroy whatever anti-tank i have in turn 2. i need to craft some hard lists what im thinking is 1500 point list- Libarian - gate of infinity - quickening - 100 :lol: Tactical Squad - Launcher, Flamer - 170 Tactical Squad - Multi-Melta, Meltagun - 175 Scout Squad - Sniper Rifles X4, Missile launcher - 85 Dreadnought - Assult cannon, Heavy flamer, Drop-Pod - 160 Assult Terminators- 3 lightning claws, 2 thunder hammers, (in the land raider with libarian) - 200 Land speeder squadron - Two Land speeders, Multi-Melta X2, Heavy Flamer X1 Vindicator - 115 Vindicator - 115 Land raider - 250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 One thing to keep in mind is that an Uber list does not make someone an Uber player. In fact, an advanced list can trip up mid-level players. If the guy really knows what he's doing, you're going to have a rough time. Enjoy the challenge and learn from it. In fact, most REAL Uber players will be glad to teach you both their list and how to beat it as you play. But chances are (especially if it's not a serious tournament) that anyone fielding an Uber list pulled it down off of the internet and doesn't really know how to play the list. You can bend this to your advantage by playing the meta-game. Mess with his head. Do Jedi mind trick stuff. Compliment his army and talk about how Uber it is. How you're soooo gonna lose. Then "accidently" attack a key component. This is likely to shake his confidence and take the guy's head out of the game. If you can do that, you win. A serious player won't let you mess with him. But a wannabe will crumble when you pop his ballon. He laid out $1000+ and days/weeks of time getting this army ready, and you just crushed his soul. Priceless. (I live for this kind of game. :lol: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havokas Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 well thing is its a very small group that plays in my little town. can be many weeks between me playing games with some of the diffrent guys but they are pro's. ive only been activly playing or around 5 months, but i do win the majority of my games unless i go against the 7 vendetta list, or the uber chaos lists these guys produce. your jedi-mindtrick isint going to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ah, ok. Then you've got two ways to go. Got Uber-cheese yourself. There are many great players here that will be glad to help you do just that. Get these local players to teach how to beat themselves. There's a lot of rock-paper-scissors to Uber-lists. And the best folks to teach you that part will be these very local players of yours. They should want you to get better. It will force them to get better too. Ask them. Do learning games. Push the envelope. This is what the best players do for each other. If they won't help you, then they're not the caliber of player that you might think. I'm generalizing, but I think you see my point. What I enjoy the most is the meta-game. The game outside an individual game. Maybe you only beat an Uber list 1 time in 4. That's should be a viewed as a major victory. Enjoy it. Worst case, go for fluff and enjoy it. I do. Because of this, I only win about 50% of the time. I could play cheese and win much more, but I don't care to 'cuz I have a blast. I'm not the Tiger Woods of 40k, nor do I care to be. The Washington Nationals & Montreal Expos sux, but they show up and have fun. I laugh my way through almost every game that I play. And for that reason, people ask to play me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 @Havokas - Your first pitch at a tough marine list is sadly lacking. I am not trying to be insulting but there are a number of issues with it that stop it from being a hard list. Instead of going through it unit by unit might I suggest that you take a look at the following thread here. It is a piece of work that lots of members embarked upon to try and build a largely competative 1500 point marine list. Whilst I dont agree with everything in there it is a very interesting read. You may think that it skips a large amount of the codex but this is done from a very cut throat point of view. If you read through to the conclusions and find out that the list is not what you want then maybe its time to accept that you arent going to be able to go uber with marines and just play for fun. Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Why go uber? Go balanced! Seriously, almost every single list Ive ever seen that has been called uber or broken was so because they focused on exploiting one overpower combination or area of expertise in their army... wich invariably leaves holes that a balanced list can exploit. When you play balanced you will always have the ability to affect your enemy and have a good fight. You might not steamroll people... but youll win consistently. If you try to make an uberlist to counter another uberlist you end up with a game of rock paper scissors where you just look at your opponent and know who will win. So- take your licks, and lose a few times. Dont let it get you down, but watch what they do and learn from it. Keep an open mind and youll find ways to counter it... without trying to use the mythical "cheese". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havokas Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 thanks everyone, just wanted to pop in and say that i know it isint exactly an awsome list. but thats why its here. the only thing i do like is the vindicators and the land speeder squadrons. scouts are there because i need something to cap controll points but i dont have points for another tactical squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 @havokas - would you like someone to comment on your list directly and suggest improvements? Or are you going to place it in the army list section? I will be happy to give you a summary and suggested list via PM if you want. Might be able to cobble something together by tomorrow. Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havokas Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 alright, from alot of feedback ive recived here and elsewhere ive come up with a vulcan list. a bunch of tough units and lots of re-rollable melta weapons and heavy flamers. comments and suggestions would be awsome thanks. HQ: Vulcan He'Stan Troops: Tatical Squad 1: Melta-Gun, Multi-Melta, Melta-Bombs, Drop-pod (vulcan is in here) Tactical Squad 2: Melta-Gun, Muli-Melta, Drop pod Elites: Assult Terminators Dreadnought - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop-Pod Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron - two land speeders, multi-meltas and heavy flamers Heavy Support: Land Raider - Multi-Melta Vindicator only thing im not shure on is the drop-pod on the taticals. maby one could take the land raider ? but the assult termies are in there already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 So this looks like 1500pts... but its very incoherent and has only two scoring units. That could be a problem. Is that a standard raider with a MM? Interesting choice. Are your assault terminators going in that thing? Make sure you have atleast one, and preferably two, TH+SS guys in that squad. I like the Dread. The Tac Squads could be improved IMHO by switching the Melta to a flamer and squeezing in combimelts for the seargents... or getting them combiflamers potentially- for a little antihorde. One other thing- a vindicator in a DP force? Especially considering you have only two tactical squads the chance of blowing them to bits seems rather high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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