Andromalius Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ok, here's some questions I have hopefully someone can help confirm or at least correct: HQ - Lots of these HQ options in the codex don't have a command squad option. So that means they have to simply be attached at deployment. That means it's not a retinue, and they're very vulnerable in combat without their own defensive upgrades. So if I were to take an HQ option such as this and want them to join a unit and drop pod before deployment (ie, deploy together). For example a Librarian. He doesn't have a command squad option. So I have to buy a squad from a non-HQ slot and attach him. Correct? But a Captain for example can take a command squad. But what bugs me is that the Chapter Master cannot? Why can he only take an honor guard and the captain can take a command squad? It just seems weird. If you want a multi-purpose balanced out `unit' HQ choice, you seem to have to use the Captain (or a character who has the captain's command squad option listed in that command squad rule text). This brings me to the Master of the Forge. I've seen people speak of him with a retinue of servitors, and we can take a unit of up to 5 servitors (elite option), but it eats up an elite slot right? That just seems bogus. But if that's the rules, then that's the rules. So confirmation: If I take a Librarian, I have to take a non-HQ unit and attach him if I want him in a Drop Pod, because he cannot get a Command Squad -- Correct? I guess it's all confusing because I was used to characters being able to always have retinue options for HQ's, and here, in the new codex, only the captain and a few named characters can get command squads. It's just weird for libbies and chappies to not have this option for me. Lastly about Drop Pods: If I take a unit with a Drop Pod, can I still deploy the unit as normal on the table, and the Drop Pod will be empty but still rolled for and counted for in terms of drop pod assault and all that? So if I take a troop with a drop pod, I can totally put it on the table in deployment and their pod can just arrive empty some where, right? Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173953-couple-of-5th-spacemarine-qs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Command Squads are not retinues. You can only get the squad if you have a Captain, but the squad is not automatically attached to him. So even if the Captain decides to join the Command Squad later, it will not count as a "retinue", so will not grant him any more protection than joining a tactical squad would. The same goes for Honour Guard and Servitors. They can only be bought if a certain Character is present, but they are not automatically attached to that Character, so they are not "retinues". Chapter Masters let you take a Honour Guard unit, Captains let you take a Command Squad unit, Masters of the Forge or Techmarines let you take a Servitor unit. Since the Servitor army list entry is boxed, and they are dependant on a Techmarine or Master of teh Forge, I don't think they are supposed to take up an Elite slot, but unfortunately other than for Command Squads and Honour Guard their army list entry does not state that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173953-couple-of-5th-spacemarine-qs/#findComment-2056311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You are correct, Legatus. Note that Command Squads and Honor Guard cannot sub-divide into Combat Squads. For this reason, many players field other Veteran Squads (Sternguard/Vanguard) instead. On Servitors, I've advocated fielding minimal units when running a MotF or Techmarine for use as meat-shields. Positioned near a TC, they provide a cheap option for the attending Techmarine, should he be popped out of the TC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173953-couple-of-5th-spacemarine-qs/#findComment-2056317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Watch Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 <edited because people who can type faster than me have already replied.> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173953-couple-of-5th-spacemarine-qs/#findComment-2056320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromalius Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Thanks for the clarification guys. New Question: The Tactical Squad selection says that a 10 man unit can take a flamer. Wow. So if I take 9 marines so that I can get my Master of the Forge to join them, they can't take a single special weapon at all. Why is this unit so absolutely gimped yet only one of two scoring options for this army? I'm just bewildered and hoping that it's a typo, but pretty sure that it's not. Confirm? Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173953-couple-of-5th-spacemarine-qs/#findComment-2056340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Watch Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Yeah but your squad doesn't have to have 9-men for an independent character to join it. They can have 10 and your Master of the Forge will become like a temporary 11th member. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173953-couple-of-5th-spacemarine-qs/#findComment-2056361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromalius Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Yeah but your squad doesn't have to have 9-men for an independent character to join it. They can have 10 and your Master of the Forge will become like a temporary 11th member. I just noticed the Pod can hold 12 models. That solved that one. Was having a melt down how gimped the choice was, lol. Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173953-couple-of-5th-spacemarine-qs/#findComment-2056398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 You're right, though, it is a gimped choice. I suppose they wanted to 'force' people to play with full-sized Tactical Squads, instead of several 'Min-Maxed' Tac Squads. That's part of why you'll rarely see a SM army with more than three Troop selections now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173953-couple-of-5th-spacemarine-qs/#findComment-2056873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
farseerixirvost Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Yeah but your squad doesn't have to have 9-men for an independent character to join it. They can have 10 and your Master of the Forge will become like a temporary 11th member. I just noticed the Pod can hold 12 models. That solved that one. Was having a melt down how gimped the choice was, lol. Thanks. Don't forget the combat squad option. Sounds like you're aiming for Drop Pod, but one could take a 10-man squad, join the "11th" Character to it (sounds so Spinal Tap like...), split the unit into combat squads, and put one CS + IC into a Razorback (or rhino). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/173953-couple-of-5th-spacemarine-qs/#findComment-2059626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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