Dreadnought Loadout

[Andromalius]

So what looks more like it's worth the effort:

 

Dreadnought with Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer with Extra Armor in a Drop Pod (165 points)

 

or

 

IronClad Dreadnought with Siesmic Hammer, DNCCW, Meltagun, 2x Hunterkillers in a Drop Pod (200 points)

 

Consider that you will drop on ANY target.

 

Thanks.

[minigun762]

Dreadnought with Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer with Extra Armor in a Drop Pod (165 points)

 

Winner minus Extra Armor.

Its true that Extra Armor will allow you to assault something if you're stunned, however being stunned is a 1/6 chance normally and that single upgrade increases the cost of the unit by 10%.

For my money, its not worth it on a what is basically a disposable unit.

[Andromalius]

Hrm. This is true.

 

Do you think 3x STR8 shots with a Heavy Flamer, vs 1x STR8 shot with a Heavy Flamer is worth the point difference though?

 

By the way, stunned happens on a penetrating 2, a penetrating AP1 weapon's roll of 1, a penetrating AP- weapon roll's of a 3, a glancing AP- weapon's roll of 5, and a glancing roll of 4. It's not as simple as just saying 1/6th of the time. You nearly cover the whole dice with access to it being a stunned result. Yea, it's 10%, but in 2500 point battles, with X turns, and all those possible stuns, I figure it's ok to spend on the armor for the chance that it's just not outright destroyed. But I get your point.

 

Thanks.

[ShinyRhino]

Honestly, I'd go with the plain Dread version.

Drop podding a Dread in is usually for one of two purposes: wipe soft infantry targets, or pop a battle tank's rear armour. Since the Dread can't assault the turn it pods in, it has to survive a full turn before it can have any other options.

Extra Armour helps the Dread do something on Turn 2. Even if it can't shoot in Turn 2 due to a Shaken result (or the downgraded Stunned via EA), it can still assault something! Against squishy targets like Tau, IG, etc, you can get stuck in for a LONG time and whittle them down with your DCCW every turn.

The multimelta has a benefit over the regular melta on the Ironclad...double the range. That means you can scatter quite a bit before you're outside Melta effect range. Sure, you can fire those HKs as well, but they're one-shot-deals. I personally hate one-shot deals, especially in tight situations liek a podding Dread aiming at a must-kill target. Of course, the other school of thought here might be volume of fire. You'd have three shots, as opposed to just one that is more likely to get bonus damage.

Now, against infantry targets, the Ironcalw lacks that flame template on the turn it arrives, so it's firing a lone meltagun, and NOT charging. It won't get to charge until Turn 2. Effecctively, it'll get ONE casualty on your targeted infantry unit, as opposed to the higher number from the regular Dread's heavy flamer. Once yo manage to get stuck in, the Ironclad survives better against grenades and such, and also whittles down the enemy faster due to having more attacks.

 

So, in short, the Ironclad hits harder when it gets the assault on Turn Two. The normal Dread hits harder when it arrives, but less so in later turns.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Hrm. This is true.

 

Do you think 3x STR8 shots with a Heavy Flamer, vs 1x STR8 shot with a Heavy Flamer is worth the point difference though?

 

By the way, stunned happens on a penetrating 2, a penetrating AP1 weapon's roll of 1, a penetrating AP- weapon roll's of a 3, a glancing AP- weapon's roll of 5, and a glancing roll of 4. It's not as simple as just saying 1/6th of the time. You nearly cover the whole dice with access to it being a stunned result. Yea, it's 10%, but in 2500 point battles, with X turns, and all those possible stuns, I figure it's ok to spend on the armor for the chance that it's just not outright destroyed. But I get your point.

 

Thanks.

It is as simple as saying 1/6, all those different situations had only 1 die roll for stuned. It doesnt mater what numbers can make a choice, it maters how many numbers on any given roll. and the anser will always be 1.

 

 

Though I have no idea what your talking about with the heavy flamer hits, as they are never str 8. heavy flamers are str 5, ap4

[ShinyRhino]

Though I have no idea what your talking about with the heavy flamer hits, as they are never str 8. heavy flamers are str 5, ap4

 

He means one Str8 Multimelta shot, ALONGSIDE the heavy flamer (regular Dread), or three Str8 shots (melta, HK, HK) ALONGSIDE the heavy flamer (Ironclad).

[minigun762]

So, in short, the Ironclad hits harder when it gets the assault on Turn Two. The normal Dread hits harder when it arrives, but less so in later turns.

ShinyRhino did a better job of making the point I was trying to. :D

Dreads are distraction/disposable units, so keep them cheap and mean. If you make them too expensive, they just become point sinks.

[Ryjak]

Extra Armor is an insurance policy. Personally, I don't want a glancing hit to have a 1/3 chance of keeping my Dread from getting into HtH, and those 15 points often keep Dreads moving against me.

[Nehekhare]

Why can a Terminator mount a cyclone missle launcher and keep his sidearm, but on a dread there's only place for two single rockets? I don't get it...would be way cooler that way (think battletech)...

[Hfran Morkai]

People seem to have this really awesome idea of dropping in Ironclads and I can't see how it is because he'll be sitting pretty for a turn (firing a meltagun, some hunter killers and a heavy flamer or maybe a hurricane bolter) and the enemy will do their best to blow it up.

[Eldilar]

Ironclads, in theory, hit harder in both the shooting and the assault phases (which they don't get until turn two). With the slightly higher armor rating, they are also less vulnerable to a small selection of weapons (autocannons, assault cannons, plasma guns, relic blades).

 

In turn, the Ironclad is also much more expensive... The 1st turn impact difference between 1 multimelta shot + 1 heavy flamer/bolter shot and 1 melta shot (or Heavy flamer), two hunter killer missiles, and then a heavy flamer/bolter can be significant.

 

Granted, the HK missiles are one shot and gone...but on the flip side, you expect your Dreadnought to be mass targeted after it lands, so it may be gone anyway, making all of its weapons one shot. the three S8 shots against rear armor might be worth it. Without the HKs, you can do the double Heavy Flamer thing and lay templates all over some infantry in the rear.

 

The Ironclad is ever so slightly more likely to live to turn 2. If it lives to turn 2, the weapon load out difference for CCW is drastically more powerful. The seismic and chainfist bring things to bear that standard dreadnoughts just can't (+1 on the dmg chart or 2d6 penetration).

 

The Assault Grenades, again a point cost upgrade, make a Dreadnought far more useful at taking and giving in the charge phase.

 

It is an expensive piece compared to its cheaper little brother, but it will shine in some situations, especially in Planet Strike, which is it's primary purpose.

 

The summary, again, of why its better (but costly), especially in Planetstrike: Better against dug in units (2 heavy flamers, assault grenades), Better instant impact on armor (2 HKs on top of Melta), better at dismembering AV 14 (Chainfist, Seismic Hammer), Better survivability (AV 13).

 

Is it worth what you spend? That depends on the size of your list. I personally plan on using the Ironclad only in 3 drop pod situations, so I have at least 2 units hitting the table on the first turn, forcing people to pick their poisons (and probably tossing in a locator beacon, especially for Planet Strike, and trying to get Assault Terminators in near the Ironclad to kill stuff early and often).

 

Its not for everyone, but I for one like it.

[Chucku]

I've had success with the Iron Clad and a drop pod as of late. Positioning is key, especially using the pod as cover for your opponent's fire phase after you land. Completely flummoxed a Guard gunline with one a couple of days ago allowing my Rhinos & LRs to motor up to assault range with nary a loss.

[Grey Mage]

Id rather have the Ironclad if Im going to stoop to dropping in a MM Dread- why wouldnt I go for the extra armor, extra AV, and more weapons for a paultry 30pts? Seriously it seems like a no-brainer here. If your DSing the unit its going to be very close anyways, so who needs the extra range of the MM?

 

Note- I find that the Ironclad is Vastly more survivable than the Dreadnaught. Its immune to everything that is not a tank hunter save the plasmacannon, it has potentially twice the weapons of a normal dread to glance through, and it comes with Extra Armor as standard. As I see EA as a nessecity with a dread I find that its only 15pts for serious amount of upgrades.

 

The only time a dread is better than an IC is if its at range- when you need an assault cannon, some autocannons, or a TLLC to help cover your assault.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

Id rather have the Ironclad if Im going to stoop to dropping in a MM Dread- why wouldnt I go for the extra armor, extra AV, and more weapons for a paultry 30pts? Seriously it seems like a no-brainer here. If your DSing the unit its going to be very close anyways, so who needs the extra range of the MM?

 

Note- I find that the Ironclad is Vastly more survivable than the Dreadnaught. Its immune to everything that is not a tank hunter save the plasmacannon, it has potentially twice the weapons of a normal dread to glance through, and it comes with Extra Armor as standard. As I see EA as a nessecity with a dread I find that its only 15pts for serious amount of upgrades.

 

The only time a dread is better than an IC is if its at range- when you need an assault cannon, some autocannons, or a TLLC to help cover your assault.

I couldn't have put it better myself. This is absolutely the crux of it... The Ironclad is considerably more survival and you can shield its weaker rear armour using the pod. That largely forces fire onto AV13 extra armour frontage. If you are podding, and thus ranged weapons are much less important, is there really a strong case for taking anything other than an Ironclad?