Denying the Greater Good

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Ok, Ill admit it, I need some help. My foot-slogging wolves have lost several battles against tau hunter cadres in the area, and I need some advice from the older wolves on how to deal with these ranged, high ap, mobile little blue gits. My previous strategy had been to walk across the board with lots of assault weapons, blow the crap out of 'em up close then finish them in assault. Unfortunately, my opponent has gotten excellent at using kroot counter assaulters and aggresive battle suits. I end up dead but leaving the enemy in tatters so that a squad of drunk guardsmen could finish them off. However, Im still dead. I already have a few ideas (DROPPODS) but I'd like some advice to modify them or change entirely. Thanks, and ales for any and all suggestions!

[Hfran Morkai]

Do you use a pack of OBEL scouts? They could reak havoc amongst tanks/fire warriors whilst causing the enemy to counter this threat. I recommend dropping in a ven dread with multi-melta to destroy hammerheads and cause the enemy even more fear. I tend to use a mech list, drive the rhonos as fast as possible and then use them as cover. However I've never played Tau so these tactics may not work.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Yeah, the one time I've been victorious was annihilation and they came from behind and butchered his Shas'o/bodyguards. :P

However, they are codex box scouts and I dont have the stuff to kitbash a melta scout. I dont have money for rhinos but I haven't tried deepstriking a tankhunter dreadnought yet... :D

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

The Tau have a knack of dancing around slower troops especially if your totally foot slogging, they will love the oppotunity to smack you around whilst trudging across the battlefield. I find a great distraction unit like Wolfguard in a drop pod will spoil thier day, they will probably die eventually but it will buy the rest of your army enough time to close in. I find that once you hit the lines its game over most of the time.

 

Dont rely on cover to save a valuable unit as they can light them up with Markerlights and reduce the cover save. I've found that Melta within 12" is best for dealing with Hammerheads etc as anything coming in from over 12" can be cover saved thanks to disruption pods. If you are playing kill points try and go for his Devilfish early doors if he has any. It will expose the squishy firewarrior/pathfinder units and when destroyed they pop out two drones which will count as a further (easy) kill point so you get two for one near enough.

 

What you dont want to do is have your troops exsposed in the open within rapid fire range of those bloody pulse rifles, to help stop this I keep my guys shacked up in a transport and try to keep them mounted as much as possible. I would be careful with Drop pods because once you've popped your in the open and on foot and that my friend is the Tau's back yard.

[Forseti]

What sized games do you usually play?

Using Rhinos for transport/cover is a good idea, as is a squad of OBEL scouts, could kit it out for tankbusting or for melee to rip through broadsides if they have a few. For Vespids, I'm not too sure, never played against them I don't think, but for troop heavy tau, heavy bolters are your friend.

 

Oh and maybe invest in a whirlwind or 2 if points permit, do your best to keep them out of LoS and just pie-plate them to death.. S5 AP4+Pinning > Tau

 

EDIT: Cheers Mikal XD Been too long and rules escape me sometimes ;p

[Hfran Morkai]

What sized games do you usually play?

Using Rhinos for transport/cover is a good idea, as is 1-2 squads of OBEL scouts, could kit 1 out for tankbusting, the other for melee to rip through broadsides if they have a few. For Vespids, I'm not too sure, never played against them I don't think, but for troop heavy tau, heavy bolters are your friend.

 

Oh and maybe invest in a whirlwind or 2 if points permit, do your best to keep them out of LoS and just pie-plate them to death.. S5 AP4+Pinning > Tau

 

Only one squad of scouts can use OBEL in a game unfortunately. I forgot how good whirlwinds would be for squishing Tau

[Spacefrisian]

You could put a 2nd unit of SW scout in a storm and outflank that one. Or be bold and take a unit of Bloodlaw bikers and race through terrain. Some might die but if you can keep those suits from jumping back and forth just by keeping them locked in combat you can bring those guys in Rhino's closer.

[Forseti]

Not sure how many points you're playing with, but heres my opinion on what to take and for what purpose..

 

Whirlwinds - SW's biggest weapon VS tau.. Fire warriors,kroot,vespids, pathfinders and drones, all easy targets. If he's hiding his kroot/vespids in cover, use incendiary shots. If you have the points and models (some very nice opponents i've played have let me use substitutes on rare occasions in friendly games).

 

OBEL scouts kitted out for either combat or tankbusting - depends on the heavy support layout your opponents usually use, most likely use tankbusting tho since it can still take out suits easy.

 

Attack bikes w/ Multimeltas - great for tankbusting and 1shotting his broadsides/crisis suits.

 

Blood claws - from past experience, hunters never did much for me vs tau, tau will win hands down in a firefight, only thing worse than being 30-24" from tau is being under 12, if you're getting in close you may aswell go for full assault, bloodclaws ftw.

 

Predators are decent but WWs do the job so much better and can fire indirectly.

 

as frisian said bikers are great for keeping crisis suits occupied

 

Drop podding is a VERY bad idea vs tau, they'll get torn to pieces especially if you roll badly for reserves and get 1-2 squads at a time.

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

Attack bikes w/ Multimeltas - great for tankbusting and 1shotting his broadsides/crisis suits.

 

Dont rely on this if the Suits are accompanied by ablative wound drones as it can take some firepower to chew through the unit.

[Forseti]

Still worth taking for the anti-tank ^^ but yeah, most of what i wrote was situational and some may be completely useless depending on the tau list XD

[OnlyInDeath]

Forseti has got it down well, tho the basics of a mech force in general are good against Tau. yes, they'll have a railgun or two, but the new cover save rules for tanks makes them 50% ineffective if you pop smoke. I personally found that pods actually work well, so long as you use the pod to isolate the force that came down from the rest of the army (exposing yourself to the whole army at rapid fire range is a bad idea). Also, podding in dreads or termie pods of doom is always nice. I had a termie pod of doom (3 AC's, 2 TH/SS, RC's all across of course) that came down in the center of the tau lines in a 2500 pt battle that proceeded to absorb the entire army's worth of shooting through the end of the game. I only lost 1 TH/SS wolf, and they accounted for about 1000 pts of dead Tau, not to mention keeping the rest of the Tau occupied and allowing my other units to decimate. In that game I used a shooty vendread, a couple pods of GH's (which took out key targets w/ volume of fire, like broadsides and objective holding firewarriors), a couple of rhino's GH squads (to hold my objectives), a whirly, LRC w/ BC's, and a vindi.

 

By staying out of obvious fire paths and making the most of the cover on the board, not to mention some aggressive attacking from the LRC and the pods, I managed to take down the tau with really minimal losses.....I should see if I can find the old battle rep i wrote on that....hold on...

[Schertenleib]

One of the guys I play on a regular basis has Tau. What has worked for me has been scouts and WG in drop pods. I have only tried loading troops into a Rhino once and he popped it in turn one.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Both of our armies are still some what under construction so games stay around 750pts for now. His list is one big firewarrior unit, medium sized kroot unit, 3 stealthers, big nasty railhead, and 3 superkitted out crises suits (commander and bodyguards). Again im low in cash right now but I'll see about a whirlwind. I know forseti said droppoding would be a bad idea but what about if I took 2 dreads w/ antitank weapons to deal with railhead and greyhunters w/plasma gun/WGPL w/ combi plasma to deal with suits? As always scatter could be a killer but still, deep striking a TLLC/ML dread right behind the offending tank should give me an early kill while inertial guidance rule takes care of scatter worries. I know, he could hug the edge of the board but he hasn't done that so far, playing rather aggresively for tau.

[Schertenleib]

I would not get into a shooting match with the railguns. You need something that can get back to him fast. Assaulting with OBEL scouts works well. I would Drop pod that Dred on him and assualt it ASAP.

[OnlyInDeath]

::emerges from the basement, trailing cobwebs...::

 

Found it! http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=148145 that might help w/ some tactica

[Grey Mage]

Your going to need some good heavy support- first things first, get a whirlwind to take on his troops and suits that are out of LOS. The pinning ability when it hits like a ton of bricks isnt a bad thing either. Two of them if you play tau, nidz, orks, eldar and gaurd regularly wouldnt be bad in your list... but if theres alot of marine style players then Id say stick with one.

 

After that.... does he use broadsides? If he does, a pack of long fangs with a pair of lascannons and a pair of missile launchers, placed in proper cover, will cause some issues for him and stay survivable far longer than any poor tanks of the line.

 

If he does not, then a pair of dreadnaughts supporting your advance would be helpful- heavy flamers on each for antikroot duty and roasting of firewarriors, and your choice of other weapon- though I reccommend either an assault cannon or TLLC for killing enemy tanks.

 

Lastly, attack bikes are a wonderful unit as are landspeeders. I have a feeling you dont have a single FA choice in your army.... you might want to change this- attack bikes give cheap heavy bolters or multimeltas on fast platforms that can hug cover better than most marine units... or just turboboost when things get to hot.

 

A landspeeder Typhoon comes in at a whopping 90pts, but if used properly *IE denying LOS to heavy weaponry like railcannons while lining up battlesuits or side armor* will make its points back quickly. A landspeeder storm with a multimelta and heavy flamer is also a good choice- cheap, tank hunting and good against infantry... and denies cover saves.

 

Lastly, consider getting some rhinos... two would do it Im pretty sure- it gives you a mobile option in most games, and in games like this it allows you to bring a mobile wall of cover where you simply dont have to worry much about shots coming in a particular direction.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Very helpful, my thanks! I'm drawing up a potential 800pt list from what I've heard so far.

btw, just so I can proxy it for at least one practice fight, what are the hull dimensions of a whirlwind?

 

@ Greymage: No, no broadsides, thank Russ!

[DGC]

Although I have only won vs Tau once the best advise I got was loads of dakka. Anything that can lay down a hail of fire, i.e Assault Cannons, Heavy Bolters etc is really going to help - they just can't ignore all those saves. Even double tapping bolters is good so I kit my GH squad with them

 

Next is Flamers. Give them to the units you are going to get into assault especially your Bloodclaws.

 

When I last played Tau I took a Whirlwind (4th edition) and laying down mines was brill for directing where his army could move. with the new ammo they should be just as good if not better so take one if you can

 

OBEL Scouts are a must. Five man sqaud with PP and Melta comes in under 100pts and can wreak havok if they come in early enough.

 

Again, last time vs Tau I didn't have any Attck Bikes so I took Tornados with ACs and they worked very well especially if you can get behind the suits. My opponants fave tactic was to move, shoot then move back behind cover again so having something behind him really rattled him - sort of like a Tau sandwich.

 

The comments about drop podding a Dread are good providing it can descimate the nearest target in one or there is a good chance it will get cooked. podding an HQ with Guard sounds awesome but pricey in 750pt games

 

So imho, cheap HQ with Plasma or combi and power weapon, Obel Scouts with plasma pistol/s and melta, GH with Bolters and Melta, BCs with Flamer, Whirlwind and something fast. But max out on dakka. A Predator with Auto cannon and heavy bolters or drop the Whirlwind and take two if you can afford them

 

Just my 2$ worth

 

DGC

[spjaco]

I actually tried this the other day and it got my Blood Claws in close.

Put them in a Land Raider, give it plenty of covering fire and support, I used two Land Speeders, both with AC and a HB. Smacked them around quite a bit. Then the BC were close enough and went on the assault and that just about killed the enemy.

Or maybe I was lucky.

[Grey Mage]

Very helpful, my thanks! I'm drawing up a potential 800pt list from what I've heard so far.

btw, just so I can proxy it for at least one practice fight, what are the hull dimensions of a whirlwind?

 

@ Greymage: No, no broadsides, thank Russ!

 

A whirlwind is the same size as a rhino- IE 3" wide by 4.5" long, and about 2" tall, more on the turret.

[Vassakov]

Ok, some are going to doubt this Long Fangs advice... but I have racked up countless victories against the flith of the eastern fringe in a mechanised list. And it's lynchpin - a Land Raider Crusader.

 

Basically, the Tau have two guns capable of stopping the thing - the Railgun, and the Fusion Blaster. Now, with all the other weapons (burst cannons and plasma rifles mostly) this is often overlooked, and the only things that pose a threat are Railguns. Most Tau armies will have 1-4 of them. Assuming 3 Broadsides, he's got a 1/3 chance of stopping the thing with clean shots. Smokes and canny deployment should cut that in half.

 

He now has a 1/6 chance of stopping it, and has 1 turn at most - by turn 2, you should have a pack of Blood Claws rampaging through his lines.

 

Dreads and Preds are also fairly effective, however the sheer weight of S5 fire will cripple Rhino/Razorbacks so be advised they are not going to last long.

 

Finally, get Wolf Scouts. Tau hate them.

[Forseti]

Aye in 750-800pts (Try to stick with 750 cuz it really sucks having to add in another HQ just for the extra 50pts) a crusader packed with blood claws will probably make a Tau player cry if you can occupy/destroy/weapon destroy the railhead.

 

I guess it all comes down to what you'd prefer, rushing up in the LRC and hope that the railhead doesnt get a lucky shot, or using cover/whirlwind to disrupt most of his army then mop up in combat. Both would work, though I do admit the 1st option is more therapeutic.

 

Heh everyone seems to have their own approach to this, just keep challenging your opponent til you find which works to your liking/best.

[GunnarRedsun]

personally, i use vindicators and an exterminator. i know it can all be a bit pricey, but they tend to distract the opponent nicely, and they can tear through a few units before they die hopefully, that and 2 or 3 dreads. but thats just me, i love to use tanks and dreads. another thought is blood claw bikers or blood claw assault squads. if you wanna be a pain about it you could always try the ork staggering trick with two units of blood claws with a charactor or 2 in there (i saw someone use that to great effect recently). its annoying and hard to kill, and also a huge distraction. but i have an odd play style, so yeah. anywolf i hope it helps at least a little.

[Grey Mage]

Lets see. I did a 750 against my buddy paul this afternoon and I brought this list:

 

Venerable Dread- AC, EA, HF- 170.

 

10x GHs- P.Rifle, P.Pistol, P.Fist, 8x Bolters- 215pts.

10x GHs- 2x PW, Meltagun, Rhino- 235pts.

 

Attack Bike- 40pts.

 

Whirlwind- 85pts.

 

He Brought:

 

Commander+Bodygaurd

 

3xStealthsuits

 

12x Firewarriors+Drones

12x Firewarriors+Drones

 

Broadside

Sniper Team

 

It went fairly well. EA saved my Vendread from sitting in one spot for the first three turns of the game- the railgun was on him the whole time. The rhino was just moving cover.... and I had to abandone it turn 2- he just kept glancing it into immobility.

 

The stealth suits went for my whirlwind was quickly as they could... keen senses helped on targetting them, and I had to divert my CC rhino squad to deal with them. Took two turns to catch them.

 

With all the popping back and forth I ended up wiping out his Firewarriors and his broadside, and his sniper teams leader was running for the table edge. Hed destroyed my rhino, knocked the assault cannon off my vendread, and had my CC squad in retreat do to a failed psychology test from shooting- I won by a hairsbreadth.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

It sounds exactly like a couple of battles Ive had except you had whirlwind fire support and better mobility. That seems to be the clincher so far: closing the distance and barrage support in cover. My friend with IG played my brother and the mortar squads behind a wall annoyed the fool out of him and made a hash out of his firewarriors. The next list Im making is going to feature 2 dreads (one venerable) and a small grey hunter squad drop podding with a whirlwind in support plus 1-2 more infantry squads.