Deep striking units, what do you do on the 2nd turn?

[minigun762]

Ok so with units like Termicide squads, Ironclad Dreadnoughts and drop pod Sternguard, what do you do AFTER you drop in and melt face initially.

Do you only use those units as one-shot fun packages and after that they don't matter anymore, or do you still have a plan for the next turn?

If you have a plan with them, what is it?

[GreatEscape_13]

Um...

 

I'd love if my opponents just ran their deep striking troops as single turn/one-shot units. That kind of thinking would make them very easy to beat.

 

Running Deathwing, we don't have the luxury of ever thinking that a unit is one-and-done. Placing a deep striking dread just to be a distraction and take a single melta shot at some rear armor is vogue right now and all, but not a particularly sound strategy in my opinion. Better to be conservative and build up threats for a coordinated attack on subsequent turns.

 

Cheers.

[Grey Mage]

Ok so with units like Termicide squads, Ironclad Dreadnoughts and drop pod Sternguard, what do you do AFTER you drop in and melt face initially.

Do you only use those units as one-shot fun packages and after that they don't matter anymore, or do you still have a plan for the next turn?

If you have a plan with them, what is it?

Taking a unit that you only expect to work for one turn is 9/10s a horrible idea. What if you dont get what you want done that first turn?

 

No... I always try to put them in a spot where theyll survive- a live unit can do alot more over several turns than a explosive unit in one.

 

Sterngaurd? You take up a defensive position on the flank with your DS move, and then onload into their cornerstone unit. Then you either try to find good cover, or assault the closest unit you can tie down and have a chance of beating.

 

Ironclads? Keep your back to the drop pod and kill anything that moves, for as long as you can.

 

TDA? Use them to scare the crap out of your enemy and allow the rest of your force to advance unmolested, and then throw them at whatever theyre best at killing- my WGTDA squad runs about 400pts in a DP, and I never fail to make back my points with them *sept once, and that was facing 3 Fireprisms and 20 Banshees*. Heck, once they took 2k of Tau Shooting and emerged from the smoke unscathed to take about 1700pts of DE assault... and died on I 5 after the WGBL had take down three of the lords retinue.

 

DS isnt a way to load your troops into a shotgun- its a rhino that doesnt get shot at.

[Vel'Cona]

The key to solid "sacrifice" DS units is to keep em cheap. That's why Termicide isn't a bad idea, you can take a few Termies, slot in some Combi-Meltas, and use them as basically a pop 'n' drop squad. They also have the side effect of attracting obscene counter-attacks, which can keep the heat off your main army in subsequent turns.

 

However, in the case of SG or IC Dreads, we're spending anywhere from 150ish-300+ points for the units. We'll get essentially the same effect, but we're also giving up a lot more points to see it done. I won't say suicide drops are a terrible idea in all situations, but I believe it's best to drop carefully. I'd say if you can take advantage of terrain to control fire lanes, and try to keep any counter-assault elements at arm's length, the effectiveness of these elite units would go much further.

 

If C:SM players want the funzies of the Termicides, we can always go with a double MM LS and DS it. Similar effect, though it more than likely won't see through as much return fire, which is fine if it's done what you needed it to. Generally, though, I would agree that straight suicide of expensive squads is a very bad idea, unless you're certain they'll make back their points on the turn they drop in. Even then, conserving your fast strike elements should be a concern of any good general.

[JamesI]

I find my termicide unit gets ignored after it does its job. Drops down, fires off its meltas at something scary. Opponent worries about other targets, how much can 4 terminators do with the meltas gone?. Then it walks around firing bolters/heavy flamer into whatever.

 

Almost always my termicide unit survives, due to lack of attention until its too late.

 

This is pretty much the only deep striking unit I regullarly use, sometimes I deep strike jump infantry, but they usually have a clear job to do on turn 2, assault something!

[Coyote]

... Ironclads? Keep your back to the drop pod and kill anything that moves, for as long as you can...

As I've mentioned in other threads, I use Drop Pods as cover in both the initial and subsequent turns. DPs serve as two kinds of cover. When 'live' they can block LoS (although, in fairness, there's a discussion about that). When destroyed, they can provide a 4+ cover area to retreat into that your opponent was kind enough to create right next to your Dread or unit. Rather thoughtful of them. :no: This is really nice for ICs, since they have Move Through Cover and can usually move from one end to the other in a single turn. Why? Lemme see if I can demonstrate:

1111						  
1111						  2
1111

Assume that your opponent's position begins something like this, with the 1's representing a squad that you might like to charge eventually and the 2 representing a vehicle or other target that you'd like to shoot immediately. Please assume that the units are roughly 12" apart.

1111		 D					  
1111		DDDI			  2
1111		 D

Now the Drop Pod (D) has arrived, hopefully on target, and bisected the enemy position. The Ironclad (I) now deploys in a manner that covers it from the rear by placing it's back to the Drop Pod. It can now freely target unit #2.

1111		 D					  
1111		DDDI			  X
1111		 D

Assuming that you destroyed unit #2 (WOOT!), on the enemy turn unit #1 is forced to move out from it's original location or risk being charged by the IC. They could simply move further away or try and maneuver for a clear shot on the Ironclad. Unit #1 could then choose to shoot the Drop Pod to prevent it from firing, shoot at the Ironclad in it's rear armor (although it's likely to have a 4+ cover save if you allow the shot), shoot the Ironclad in the side, or ignore it.

 

On it's turn, the Ironclad will be free to try and move to assault unit #1. If the Drop Pod is destroyed, the Ironclad can simply walk through the wreckage.

 

The point of all this is twofold:

1. To divide your opponent's position into easily digestible chunks.
   
2. To change your opponent's targeting priorities in unexpected ways.
   

While I've focused on Drop Pods, the same principles apply to any Deep Striking unit. If you're using Terminators, deploy them opposite or to the flank of you main force. This pulls critical fire from the main force, greatly increasing your overall chances. If you're deploying Sternguard, you need to carefully consider your targeting priorities. Like the Ironclad, they do best when they can wipe out or break their initial target in order to prevent a direct return fire. This lets them move to their next priority. If a Sternguard's Drop Pod is destroyed, that's great!. Get them into that area of cover.

 

Since Deep Strike is never perfect, it's best to plan ahead for mishaps. You might end up too close to your second priority. Or otherwise exposed. Go with it. The Dice gods have 'blessed' you with a challenge. At that point, it's best to rely on the psychological effect of the Deep Strike to distract your opponent.

 

Note:

You can manipulate the Inertial Guidance System rule by targeting a spot near something impassable for the landing site and using IGS to 'slide' off the impassable terrain into the spot you'd like. I regularly use this to create a 'Drop Pod wall'.

[minigun762]

I find my termicide unit gets ignored after it does its job. Drops down, fires off its meltas at something scary. Opponent worries about other targets, how much can 4 terminators do with the meltas gone?. Then it walks around firing bolters/heavy flamer into whatever.

 

Almost always my termicide unit survives, due to lack of attention until its too late.

 

This is pretty much the only deep striking unit I regullarly use, sometimes I deep strike jump infantry, but they usually have a clear job to do on turn 2, assault something!

 

This is usually what happens with me. I feel like I'm trading my Terminators for one of their units and my biggest decision is to find a unit thats worth more to my opponent, then my Terminators are to me.

 

But I'd like to start getting more value out of my units, instead of just treating them as disposable.

[Hellios]

I feel like I'm trading my Terminators for one of their units and my biggest decision is to find a unit thats worth more to my opponent, then my Terminators are to me.

 

But I'd like to start getting more value out of my units, instead of just treating them as disposable.

 

 

Welcome to the life of an Imperial Guard commander. "More meat for the grinder"

 

I deepstrike my entire army (or at least most of two of them) and thats different from single units. The only single unit I deepstrike often on its own are Swooping Hawks (Eldar) where I will try and drop grenades on an exposed or weak unit then drop next to another exposed/weak unit (or somewhere I can target them so with 24") but where I'm relativly covered from return fire :D and if I'm very lucky I might even have a hiding space next to an enemy tank so I can go and grenade them in the next turn.

[Koremu]

I disapprove in general terms of "suicide" tactics in a Space Marine Army. The Drop Podding Melta Dread really doesn't work out as worth the investment for me.

 

I'd rather Drop Pod into no mans land and effectively fortify up than Drop Pod into an enemy deployment zone. The first order of business in any LZ is to secure a perimeter. If you select the right area, it shold be possible to use a combination of terrain and deployed Drop Pods to make any assault difficult while the landing units dig in. If the LZ contains a mission objective, moreso the better.

 

In this kind of Drop Pod deployment, you've suddenly posed your enemy a difficult challenge. He's too far away from your units to assault you in force, and you have taken to cover to frustrate attempts to dig you out. The presence of a Dreadnought at this area makes it difficult to send even Heavy Infantry in, so the Dreadnought acts as a deternet to attempting assault, further styming the enemy advance.

 

Dropping in Vanguard (the obvious and best Forlorn Hope choice) as a unit to threaten forward and thereby secure the LZ is a possibility, but their losses will be high. Perhaps a better option is to guide this entire force down with Scout Bikers equipped with a Locator Beacon, simultaneously enabling a precision landing and providing the abilty to assault and secure the LZ perimeter on turn 1.

 

One odd choice that works for Drop Podding in this scenario is Devastators. They lose relatively little for not having a Transport for the game, and you can do amusing things like casually informing your opponent that you have 4 Multi-Meltas setting up 12" from his Leman Russ Squadron. Or you can just *not* point that out whilst distracting him with the aforementioned Scout Bikers, acording to your strategy.

[minigun762]

So how well does those tactics work if you aren't/can't use a Drop Pod as mobile cover?