Nobz... they are unkillable

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

This is not a rant.

 

Last two games I played against an Ork player who is happens to have pretty good tactics AND insane dice rolls.

 

I rolled up on his Nobz + Ghazkhull, completely ambushed them, and the following happened:

 

I fired

10 meltas (4 from CSM, 2 from PM, 2 from rhino combi, 2 from TDA combi)

1 heavy flamer

1 battle cannon (hit, 6 nobz under template)

5 lascannons

32 bolters

4 TL bolters

 

end result? 5 nobz dead. Granted, they were in cover from most of it. I ended up killing them all by the end of the game, but I lost because I had to concentrate 2500 pts on them for 3 rounds to kill them all.

 

Bad luck, you say?

 

The same thing happened last night, too. I rolled up on his nobz, killed all but the power claws, and then he ate my army.

 

His nobz are all kitted out differently, so he can play musical wounds. My question is this: if he has a model already wounded, doesn't he have to take any subsequent wounds from different units on the already wounded guys? He insists that he doesn't and I was too tired to argue the point. Not that I need to worry about him failing an invulnerable save anyway. In 14 instant death wounds, he made 11 5++ saves. Gross.

[dreadmad]

he has to distribute his wounds befor rolling for saves

[Drudge Dreadnought]

He is allowed to do what he is doing with the wounds due to different wargear. Its a stupid and cheesy side affect of the new wounds system that makes nobs really powerful. Atleast they weren't nob bikers, those always are in cover and have more toughness.

[minigun762]

I'm pretty sure insta-death things work differently though, I remember looking it up for just that reason and my understanding was you have to remove a full wound unit if at all possible.

[incinerator950]

Yes, orks are currently the most overpowered enemies.

[Hellios]

he has maddok grotsnik?

[Night Lord Dred]

They are the biggest threat orks have. That means you need to counter accordingly.

 

They are one trick ponies. Shoot them with things that will IK them, and then be the one to get the charge off when their numbers are weakened. Daemon Prince with warptime will be 4-5 unsavable wounds at turn on them, and can take ghazghkull on 1v1 for atleast a little while.

 

If you know youre going to be playing orks, a lord with a daemon weapon of slaneesh is beastly on them.

[DuskRaider]

I played Orks today and my friend brought a unit of Nobz. He didn't use Ghazghkull, but Wozdakka (or whatever). I found the Nobz to be pretty overrated. They attempted to wedge my 2 squads of Plague Marines off of an objective and were cut down on their venture through the difficult terrain. Maybe I got lucky, but I didn't see a big problem there...

[eyescrossed]

I played Orks today and my friend brought a unit of Nobz. He didn't use Ghazghkull, but Wozdakka (or whatever). I found the Nobz to be pretty overrated. They attempted to wedge my 2 squads of Plague Marines off of an objective and were cut down on their venture through the difficult terrain. Maybe I got lucky, but I didn't see a big problem there...

You got lucky. Luckily.

[DuskRaider]

What makes them so difficult? Their armour save and toughness aren't that good, I just kept them at range. Or does Ghaz give them some nastier stats/abilities?

[eyescrossed]

Well if he used them with Wazdakka, they'd obviously be on bikes, so T4(5), a 4+ Cover Save all the time, Feel No Pain and the ability to spread wounds around like crazy (or allocate Instant Death shots to the T5(6) Warboss, I think they're a little difficult.

[Hellios]

Also if they have grotsnik they can get 5+ inv saves :D

[Zeruel]

Also if they have grotsnik they can get 5+ inv saves :D

 

Can't they always do that anyways by taking Cybork Bodies?

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

Let me list the obnoxiousness for you

 

WS 5, 2 wounds, FNP, power claws, combi weapons, 5++ save.

 

Ghazkhull (or however it's spelled) gives them fearless and an automatic 6" fleet move on the turn he Waaagh's. It also makes his 2+ save invulnerable. Yikes.

[eyescrossed]

Also if they have grotsnik they can get 5+ inv saves :D

They can get them if they have a regular Painboy :eek

[Hellios]

Also if they have grotsnik they can get 5+ inv saves :D

They can get them if they have a regular Painboy :eek

 

but then the boyz can't have 5+ inv saves as well :'(

[Zhukov]

Yeah they are hard to kill. Only real solution is Lash, apart from that you almost always have to really outplay the oponent to have a chance. I even lost my first game this year to them (never play with Lash, I had a stupid amount of bad luck really!)

 

Cybork bodies on boyz? That would be stupid, almost doubling their cost for a 5+ invulnerable save while cover is all over the place to get.

 

Normal Nobz are not really hard. They get hard when put on bikes. This way they most of the time have a 3+ cover save or they are beating things in combat... Great mobility and they now even shoot damn good actually. (people forget this: 3 twin-linked S5 shots each is nothing to laugh at).

 

Also they score... To the last damn wound. (it happened to me :) )

 

Tbh: you need lash if your oponent is equally skilled is my opinion.

[the jeske]

yep lash is your friend . they are a hth unit . each turn they are not in hth they potential is wasted . make rhinos walls to block charges [well at least from one unit of bikers] . sadlly chaos lacks a good str 6+ mulit shot weapon [scater lasers or hvy bolter attack bikes] we do good double tap , but thats closer then nobz charge range . also as we offten do more then 6/7 wounds on a biker mob , both melta shots land on same guy [what more or less saves one nob per turn] and thats only if he didnt do his +4 cover.

[DuskRaider]

I just spammed two units worth of plasma shots into the Nobz. 10 Plasma shots in 12" range does a number on these guys. Not to mention difficult terrain renders them useless... I'd say pick and choose your fights, but it's kind of hard to get similar results all the time.

[Smurfalypse]

I have a buddy who plays orks just about as religiously as i play Word Bearers, im lucky in the fact he LOVES to change his list from game to game so i dont get a constant dose of biker nobs. I do however see them at least half the games and have had some decent results against them with odd units.

 

Defiler w/x2 extra CCW's. This thing charges and gets a good amount of attacks, hits with half, and murders everything he hits. The left over power klaws then get to attack and wipe him off the earth though, but usually he can kill 3-4 just in that one turn of close combat, and he picks a few off here and there with the battle cannon before hand so he easily makes up his points off of them.

 

Possessed. These do fairly well for me, especially when i get rending/power weapons. They can assault them and kill 5-6 on the charge before he gets to go. They then get hit hard in return and things break even, but again the cost difference is HUGE between the two units so its a win for me.

 

My base CSM's i dont allow anywhere near the ork biker nobs unless i can porject a three to one advantage on that shooting/assault phase. (If he has 10 bikers i will only go after them with CSMs if i have 30 marines that can project power against them).

 

Oblits pick them off from long range, but the cover save is obnoxious so its just a small wittling of their numbers, usually 1-2 a turn if im lucky.

 

I dont use lash so that never comes up for me.

 

Chaos lord with daemon weapon is a suicide charge vs a decent numbered unit. Though he can go in and kill a few, usually easilly making up his points back.

 

Daemon prince is wreckage, but hes going to die in response usually. He can run in and with warptime kill a few then get toasted. Both this and the chaos lord i hate doing unless i just dont have another answer.

 

Obviously anything with a str 8+ template does well against them. You just need to hit, this is why i favor a defiler vs orks. Its good vs the nobs and is good vs everything else of theirs. The orks usually have troubles killing it from long range, and it can really take a toll on the sheer amount it kills in a game vs them.

[the jeske]

I just spammed two units worth of plasma shots into the Nobz. 10 Plasma shots in 12" range does a number on these guys.

techniclly you hit with 7/8 , wound with 6 then he does cover . this leaves 3 . he does FnP half saved and to kill anything in that unit you have to pump 5 wounds minimum after cover/bionics/FnP.

 

Possessed. These do fairly well for me, especially when i get rending/power weapons. They can assault them and kill 5-6 on the charge before he gets to go. They then get hit hard in return and things break even, but again the cost difference is HUGE between the two units so its a win for me.

and what happens if you dont roll rending/power weapon ?

[Dràyhèn]

You've a worthless unit uncapable of beating them or anything else little tougher.

 

They are quite like a nightbringer in terms of downing, but faster, killier and have more wounds. Avoid at all costs unless you can whittle them down for sure. Massed fire knocks 'em down easiest, though still easier way to handle 'em would be a dp with lash.

[Smurfalypse]

Possessed. These do fairly well for me, especially when i get rending/power weapons. They can assault them and kill 5-6 on the charge before he gets to go. They then get hit hard in return and things break even, but again the cost difference is HUGE between the two units so its a win for me.

and what happens if you dont roll rending/power weapon ?

 

 

In those cases i dont use them at all vs the nob bikers, i have them take care of the rest of their army :lol:

[Smurfalypse]

I just spammed two units worth of plasma shots into the Nobz. 10 Plasma shots in 12" range does a number on these guys.

techniclly you hit with 7/8 , wound with 6 then he does cover . this leaves 3 . he does FnP half saved and to kill anything in that unit you have to pump 5 wounds minimum after cover/bionics/FnP.

 

You dont get FnP vs AP2 or less weaponry, so the amount that were killed would be a little more but not by a whole lot. When i play against them i do have a 10 man term squad with alot of plasma BUT it doesnt work wonders. I usually count on them killing 3-4 and nothing more, my buddy runs with invuln so he rolls 4+cover, then 5+invuln. Its a pain in the arse.

 

Edit: Didnt mean they kill 3-4 with plasma, meant they inflict 3-4 wounds and nothing more. Though when i assault after i can usually kill a few more. Its key to note that you never want to take these guys on with a single unit. Nothing in the game is going to be able to handle them alone. You want to use multiple units to kill it all at once or at least kill enough to where it is a neutered unit on the return attack. I usually can make them run by sending in a daemon prince+some other heavy close combat unit against them (like terms)

[minigun762]

You dont get FnP vs AP2 or less weaponry, so the amount that were killed would be a little more but not by a whole lot. When i play against them i do have a 10 man term squad with alot of plasma BUT it doesnt work wonders. I usually count on them killing 3-4 and nothing more, my buddy runs with invuln so he rolls 4+cover, then 5+invuln. Its a pain in the arse.

 

You sure you said that right Smurf?

He can only take a single save, normally the cover save as its better.

 

Plasma is pretty solid for killing them, wounding on 2's and they get a 4+ cover save normally (from the bike).

The problem is with the whole wound allocation issue when it comes to actually killing them, so Plasma will tend to wound alot but not kill.

 

I rely on BattleCannons, Melta and Power Fist. S8 for the insta-kills so there is none of that wound allocation crap. It gets hit, fails save and dies.