Rythlan Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 As of late I have been trying to make my first WYZYWIG army, which is described HERE (Second List, Down a few posts). I like this list. It has plenty of tac marines to feel fluffy. It has hammers to hit people in the face with. I like the idea of deep strike, so I do it. And It has a nifty chaplain that people tend to love/hate. I had a good game against Nids, I have had a lot of games with varied results against several Eldar armies (that were all fun win or lose), but last night I suffered my most grievous defeat against my brothers Chaos Marines. (Bro if you are reading this, you are right. The loss was bad enough for me to ask for help.) The list was along the lines of: HQ: Khârn Demon Prince – Nurgle, Wings, Warptime Troops: Three squads of: (6) plague marines w/ 2x melta guns champ with power fist Rhino One squad of: (8) ‘Zerkers (I think) Heavy Support: Land Raider 2xOblits 2xOblits We played a pitched battle of annihilation. Chaos went first. Long story short, I forfeit the game at the end of turn 4 losing 10 to 1. I had a few razorbacks left and my combat squad las cannons. (I know people say never combat squad in annihilation, and now I fully agree, but I don’t think this alone would have caused this massive of a deficit.) I don’t know what to do against this army. My general thought was to stay back and try to shoot him down. This started to fail because he had 6 las cannons to my 3. I tried to move up and lay down some fire, but his meltas popped most of my vehicles, and my troops couldn’t get wounds on his squads. I know it’s hard to give advice without a full battle report and pictures, but I can pick out a few things that hurt me. Mistakes I know I made: - I gave up the charge almost every time (big ouch) - I moved my ‘raider up without making it into charge distance (consequently giving him melta distance) - My speeder didn’t come in until turn 4, my terms until turn 3. My other speeder never made it. - I dropped my dread too close to him/too far from me to receive any support If anyone has any suggestions on army composition or tactics, I would like to hear it. Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escaflowne Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I'm not sure what your army list is like, and this my be more my style then yours. But I'd bring Vindicators to the table if you could. It has a nasty blast that will outright kill just about anything other then Demon Princes, Tyranid MCs, or Synapse. It would be great for wiping out the Plague Marines and Berserkers. I also use lots of Melta weapons, they kill Plague Marines nicely too. But I've also start running a Vul'Kan list so that my not be an option for you. Plus, with the series of mishaps you've described at the end of your post, learn from that and you'll do better. Be mindful of keeping your Dread close enought for support. Do NOT give Berzerkers the charge, and if you have not already, make sure you have Fists or power weapons in your Tac squads. As I play a few Necronplayers semi-regularly, I see Feel No Pain as a variant of We'll Be Back. To that end, just shoot Chaos up with lots of plasma, either pistols, guns, or cannons, and you should get better results. Without looking at your list I can't help you more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/#findComment-2059709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rythlan Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 Link to my list is in the first sentence, if it is your liking to look. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/#findComment-2059713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 With such a plethora of armour on your side I would have been tempted to deploy the landspeeders from the off. Ok he has some on the best Heavy Support units in the game (oblits are dirty rotten scoundrels) but he only has 3 targets past 24" on the first go, despite having more lascannons than you he can still only target the same number of units you can. I am running on the assumption that you targeted his Landraider with your lascannons? I would have been more inclined to kill his Rhinos, ok they werent doing much damage on their own but the contents more than make up for their rubbish damage output. As you found out those plague marines just wont die! Those landspeeders, had they been on the board could have been used to target his obliterators early in the game, this would have given you more breathing space to target those Rhinos. I would be inclined to walk your shooty Termies in this game, you guarentee that they are there from the off and they will at least provide yet another choice target for long ranged efforts. If you overload him with these targets from the off you will likely have sufficient long ranged capabilities to continue pressing him during the middle of the game when his plague marines start to come into their own, not to mention that damn DP! The list you posted isnt bad and certainly you shouldnt change it just to face off against Chaos (shutting up your brother is another story but then it all depends on how much you want to get him). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/#findComment-2059825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I'm not as experienced as the others, but I did see two things to comment on: You're running all Razorbacks, not Rhinos. Yes, they seem on paper to give you more firepower. I've found in practice that Rhinos give Tactical/Devastator/Sternguard squads a reason to buy heavy weapons. Because they can fire 2/turn out of the firing points. Razorbacks have none. And the reduced capacity forces you to choose to Combat Squad or no. Consider taking 1-2 Rhinos in place of Razorbacks. waaanial00 has a point about walking the Terminators. In fact, I've learned that walking them causes people to go NUTZ because they assume, "OMG. Finally! I can blast those guys." Wrong. I've seen my Termies take more punishment than a Land Raider, shake it off, and keep coming. Yes, you lose 40pt models occasionally. But the psychological impact is incredible. You may want to even walk them in a line in front of your armor. Like waaanial00 said, it gives them too many targets. And Lascannons can only hit one at a time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/#findComment-2059902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rythlan Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Thanks for the input! I will do my best with all of your suggestions and see how things come out. I played another game with him after posting this, and attempted to correct my tactical deficiencies that I had described myself. We played a seize ground (3) with spear tip deployment. Did a bit better. Still lost a lot more than him, but was able to force a tie. I am going to have to try walking the termies on to distract fire and generally shoot stuff. Sounds fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/#findComment-2062267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 BTW, my walking Termies were cursed by the Dice Gods this weekend. Three '1's came up when rolling for 3 measly armor saves. OH NOOOOZZZZ!!!!! Death happens. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/#findComment-2062309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rythlan Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yeah, I know what you mean. In the game I tied, I rolled 6 misses in a row with my las cannons. Yeah, that is two turns of three squads with no hits. A little aggravating. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/#findComment-2062384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissah Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I have given up on Terminators specially since my last 5 á 6 games I cant seem to roll any armour saves with them. Last week I needed to roll 5 wounds on five models and I rolled 4 ONES O_O. And yeah go with Rhino's so you can fit your whole squad in there :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/#findComment-2062515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezroth Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I always include a unit of termi's assault or tactical depends on who I'm versing but the big thing with em that i do anyways is assault termi's- charge em into large basic enemy units as to see them usually wipe out that unit and do that with one or two emeny units before going for the elite ones tactical termi's- pick a target and focus fire with one or two taccy squads as well and within a turn or two I can near gauruntee that unit will be dead Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174233-tactical-deficiencies-on-my-part/#findComment-2063683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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