Let's beat the bugs!

[Justicar Valius]

Hay I'm a pure daemonhunters player (i don't belive in those wimpy guard and i like to have grey knights in my army and dont like witch hunters)

 

I've had probs with a nid player hes a very good fire player with a horrible list. this is it roughly:

 

One save tyrant (a hive tyrant that never ever fails saves)

 

Broodlord with some genestealer retinue

 

1 dakkafex and a couple of combatfexes.

 

3 zoanthropes with synapse and warp blast or somin

.

1 big brood of hormogaunts and 1 big brood of termigaunts and 12 genstealers

 

And some other things i think...

 

Anyway how would you take this load of bugs out. Tactics plus combos of stuff that works well dont say oh take 6 squads of dudes with melta guns... that uch is obvious

[jeffersonian000]

I've found Crusader spamming works well versus non-Nidzilla armies, while Godhammer spamming works great against Nidzilla specifically. Unfortunately, Crusaders are bad versus MC spam due to MC's penetrating vehicles with Str+2d6 added to a Crusader's need to get close, while mixing your Godhammers with Crusaders only weakens both. And if you footslog, you're screwed even with 2-3 Dreadnoughts, as they are too vulnerable in close combat versus outflanking genesteelers.

 

What I have found that works is 2-3 Godhammers, HQ w/ Psycan + Elite GKT w/ Psycans, 1 big squad of PAGK with Psycans, and 1-2 medium squads of PAGK w/ Incinerators or 1-2 big squads w/ no special weapons at all. This will give you a good punch versus the big things will still retaining the dakka to deal with all the little things. The problem is that you need to stay at 24" all the time and avoid close combat with everything other than MC's due to Tyranid's fast movement + high initiative + large number of attacks + rending. Versus MC's, our GKT's do quite well; however, a good CC GKT squad will let too much small stuff through, while a good ranged GKT squad is just okay versus anything that gets through. And remember rending? Your GKT's will if you forget and let too many 'Nids into close combat.

 

From the point of view of IST and Iquisitors, well, I don't think they add enough firepower to off set their fragile stat line, even if mounted in Chimeras. Assassin are too hit and miss to dedicate points too, however, a good placement with a Callidus or Evisor can be useful for one turn, while a Vindicar could take out problemical 'Nid IC's. If you take an Inquisitor to unlock an Assassin, I'd recommend an Elite Inqisitor with a Psycannon which should be attacked to your Troop mini-purg squad fo the added dakka.

 

But those are just my experiences versus 'Nids, which I play against at least once a week in my local area with my DH army.

 

SJ

[ripath]

the key to beating nids is to take them out in little bites. This is extremely easy with grey knight's stormbolters. Deploy so that the nids can't charge you then back peddle and shoot his small bugs till dead. Also make sure you take only big units of PAGK the small ones never seem to be able to do enough damage. I don't know what points cost you play at but if your opponent doesn't take extended carapace the stormbolters are worth their weight in gold.

Now for the large bugs the solution depends on thier Intiative. for the fexes you should just swarm them in close combat str 6 all around that hit first tend to end this bug much faster then a MEQ tac squad could hope to do in HtH. For the broodlord and lictor which have greater initiative you need to shoot to death or near death.

Those strategies have so far won every game against my local nid players.

Also don't waste any points on anti tank just take the grey knight swarm. 1000 points can get you 32 grey knights easy.

[Ozybonza]

I used this tactic with Deathwing, but it's equally applicable to GK (I play both)

 

Start everything in reserve, footslogging. As units come onto the board, bunch them all up together while trying to take out one MC per turn w/psycannons and SBs but keeping your units from getting charged the following turn. As you can choose where on your board edge the unit comes onto the board, staying in the 18" - 24" range shouldn't be too difficult.

[number6]

Like Jeffersonian000 said, playing fully mechanized is the strongest build against Tyranids. There is a relevant discussion of this in another current topic. Like Orks and Daemons, Tyranids mostly have to assault armour to remove it because their shooting just isn't good enough to be relied upon. Taking down land raiders is an extremely difficult task for tyranids, and mostly must be done by the MCs. ( I would strongly recommend the LRC because you can just keep shooting no matter how far you move and it's more potent than an entire GK unit while doing so.) However, their odds of succeeding are very low. The case for tyranids isn't necessarily as bad as it is for daemons (as I describe in the linked topic), but the 'nids have to spam 7-8 MCs to give them any real shot at popping your GKs out of the raiders. If they don't do that, you should have a relatively easy time of it. Armies like the one I suggested in that linked topic have plenty of anti-MC weaponry in them. Take care of the MCs first and you can clean up the gribblies at your leisure.

 

That said, a more traditional, mostly footslogging GK list is still pretty tough against 'nids. An MC spam 'nids list will be a very tall order, however. It's difficult to drop MCs fast enough to protect our more limited numbers. An MC spam list often gives us no choice but to try and drop MCs, yet behind that wall of monsters is usually some raveners or genestealers that can really rip us to shreds. The opponent will protect those attack specialists behind the MCs, then open a gap at the last minute and release them. Evil! All you can hope to do is deploy on a refused flank and shoot shoot shoot, focusing on one unit at a time.

 

Against 'nids lists with a greater number of gribblie units you'll have a much easier time. The more gribblies and the fewer MCs, the better it is for footslogging GKs. Again, deploy on a refused flank and shoot shoot shoot. Any gribblies that manage to slip through the hail of fire -- including depleted units of genestealers -- will be taken out easily when they finally do reach your lines. Always support your units, always down one unit at a time, always try to keep mobile and keep shooting. You don't want to get caught in any long combats, nothing that will eat your units up through attrition or allow full units to hit you before you've had a chance to thin them down.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

LR Spam is great here, I think the GH wins my vote over the LRC for big bugs...

 

Callidus can be a nasty surprise for the brain bugs

 

But if you really want to be nasty, take a GKGM and Stern...popping 2 big bugs per turn :D

[revnow]

@Justicar Valius: I'll start with a couple of questions.

What models do you have available?

What is the normal point value you play at?

 

Some of my advice will be echoing what number6 has said. Generally, all of the above applies to all comers lists as well, just moreso to nids since they are so one-dimensional in 5th Edition.

Units:

If you have them, take Land Raider Crusaders. Nid weapons glance them at best (minus the terrible BS3 Warp Blast), and you can move and fire the optimal number of weapons. Nids are an all footslogging, something that 5th Edition quickly made obsolete. By mechanizing you automatically become faster and more mobile than any Nid. The Hurricane bolters are absolute murder to genestealers and gaunts, while POTMS allows you to fire at a separate target (MCs) with the Multimelta. You want to be whittling down the troops with the Hurricanes while building up wounds on the big uglies. By turn 4-5 you should be set up for an assault that will clear the board of most threats. Crusaders make great bait. Draw your opponent in and then hit them all at once after accumulating wounds on them over several turns. Nids are usually a very one-dimensional army (the list you posted as example). Mechanizing automatically gives you the tactical advantage of playing dynamic multi-dimensional water to a very static one-dimensional fire army.

 

Grey Knight Terminators: Strike first, 3 attacks each (on the charge), hit on 3s wound on 4s against most fexes, 4s and 4s against Tyrants (usually), all with power weapons. You couldn't ask for a better cleanup crew.

 

Grand Master: This will make your opponent probably not like you very much, but the GM's force weapon is one of the few in the game that can be used against Nids. Making him the perfect tool for popping that slow 4 wound S8 monstrosity with no invulnerable save lumbering towards you. With multiple assaults you can take a GM and retinue and have the GM go toe to toe with one MC all by his lonesome (staying within coherency of the retinue), while the GKTs do cleanup work on other big gribblies.

 

IST Melta Squads in Rhinos: These are good for two things against nids. Adding big gribbly wounds on with the meltas at critical moments and playing mobile terrain for the Raiders. Hitting a Rhino that has moved >6" is no different than hitting a raider, which make the little bastards damn annoying for an army that relies on CC even to pop AV11/10. They can provide crucial cover from things like venom cannons and warp blast that have a chance (albeit an execrable one) of immobilizing or destroying your raiders. They also can block off assault routes allowing the Raiders to further out maneuver the MCs. An option to consider would be equipping the 5 model squad with a flamer and melta instead of just 2 meltas. Its not as good for all comers if the squad gets knocked out of their Rhino and needs to suicide some mech, but as long as they remain in the RHino (as long as possible) you can only fire one weapon out the hatch, and the flamer gives you further versatility against stuff like genestealers.

 

Equipment

Psychic Hood: You absolute, positively, must without question find a way to include a Ld10 psychic Hood (either on a GM or Inq Lord). it decreases the effectiveness of the only shooting weapon Nids have that can pen a Raider (warp blast) by 40%. This piece of wargear is an absolute must.

 

Incinerators: Either on termies (best option) or PAGK, genestealers hate incinerators. In fact, most things hate incinerators.

 

Tactics: I've covered most of this but I figured I'd post some things specific to the list you posted. Here's a breakdown of the order of units I would target depending on board conditions. I'm making these considerations with the list I'm posting below. Setup wise, even if you go first you want to deploy everying on a flank. In objective games probably (though not neccesarily) the flank opposite where most of the objectives are. You opponent has two options. One is sit and play defensive, a poor one with almost no long range shooting that will do anything to the Raiders. In this case you harass the flanks of their formation while target prioritizing the dakkafex, then the zoanthropes, then the Tyrant and finally the hitty-fexs. Use the hurricane bolters on the little uglies at all times, choose targets that either won't have cover or will cost your opponent the most by denying them future cover. Option 2 is for you opponent to play the aggressor and deploy on the same side as you. In this case you use the length of the board to your advantage. Draw them across the length of the board. Their army will be forced to either not run/fleet and stay in a big slow moving clump, or break up into little pieces that you can then focus all of your force strength on to wipe out in batches. If you are playing Crusaders you need to target prioritize on what is the greatest immediate threat to the Crusaders. If not using Crusaders target prioritize on whatever is the greatest threat to your greatest threat and work your way down.

 

Here's one of my 1750 Mech lists.

 

HQ

GM (Psychic Hood, Sacred Incense, Grimoire, Storm Shield, Hammerhand)

GKT Retinue (5) (Incinerator)

 

Troops

5 ISTs (melta, flamer, rhino (smoke)) 118

5 ISTs (melta, flamer, rhino (smoke)) 118

5 ISTs (melta, flamer, rhino (smoke)) 118

5 ISTs (melta, flamer, rhino) 115

 

Elites

GKTs (5) (BC (Storm Shield), Incinerator) 270

Inquisitor (Emperor's Tarot, Combi-Melta) 50

 

Heavy Support

Land Raider Crusader (Smoke, Difficult Terrain modifications) 263

Land Raider Crusader (Smoke, Difficult Terrain modifications) 263

Total Roster Cost: 1750

[Justicar Valius]

Thanks ive considered a lot of things from here and im gonna change my BC to a GM

 

I have one LRC available but im still building my list as an all comers list and i want a normal GHLR in it. Infact its in inquisitorial army list section its called "my list" if u wanna have a look.

 

A few upgrades should get that up to 1750 especially if i take the GM and psy hood.

 

He often plays 1750 or 1500 but 1500 with me normally but i'll be sticking it up to 1750.

 

I was wondering how to deal with zoanthropes as he has 3 of them. I reckon psycannons should hurt them but then aggain...

 

they might be getting some lascannons fired at them

[revnow]

Lascannons, Multimeltas, GKTs, anything with moderately high strength and AP2 or better. Zoanthrope's big strength is their +2/+6 and 2 wounds. Also the fact that they're not an MC means that if any part of the model is obscured it gets +4 cover. Two TLLCs is ideal, but that means you give up some mobility to be able to fairly reliably smoke a Zoanthrope a turn. A single GKT can usually pulp one if you can get it into base during a multiple assault. The thropes usually don't hang out by themselves (MCs provide good cover). So if you start putting wounds on a fex with a 'thrope hanging around you can usually take out both when it's time to assault. "Thropes have to get close to use warp blast so draw them towards the Raiders and then crush them before they're a legit threat.