2H assault weapons and pistol/cc weapons.

[Smoking Bolters]

Hi everyone,

 

Just ran into this problem in a recent game. My opponant was using noise marines who i believe have a few two handed assault weapon options for the shooting phase (i'm not a chaos player so not sure on specifics).

 

Now, in their profile in the codex it says that they have a bolter, bolt pistol and close combat weapon. They exchange the bolter for the two handed assault weapon. Leaving the pistol and close combat weapon, Can these be used in the same turn that the unit has fired the two handed assault weapon? hence granting an extra +1 attack in close combat?

 

Apologies if this has been already answered somewhere, i searched but did not find :P

[JamesI]

Yes, the noise marine can fire his sonic blaster, charge and fight with pistol and chainsword.

[Smoking Bolters]

Thanks for the reply,

 

Thought this was the case. Still seems a little odd to me, but if thats the way it works then fair enough... damn traiter scum and their fast fingers. :P

[Frogstaff]

Unlike fantasy, you do not choose to use a particular weapon and then are stuck with it for the duration of the turn. So long as a model has a pistol and ccw in their possesion, they'll get the extra attack.

[Legatus]

I disagree with that. If a model happened to be equipped with multiple close combat weapons, such as a bolt pistol, a power weapon and a power fist, if that model wanted to attack with the power weapon then it could indeed make use of the "two weapons" attack bonus. But if that model wanted to attack with the power fist, it could not combine that with any of the other weapons, so would not get any attack bonus.

[nighthawks]

I disagree with that. If a model happened to be equipped with multiple close combat weapons, such as a bolt pistol, a power weapon and a power fist, if that model wanted to attack with the power weapon then it could indeed make use of the "two weapons" attack bonus. But if that model wanted to attack with the power fist, it could not combine that with any of the other weapons, so would not get any attack bonus.

Sorry Legatus, I don't agree with you on that one - a model with 2 special CCWs (which the fist and power weapon are) "never get the bonus attack for using 2 weapons".

 

I understand that you are supposing that the model may choose to use the PW and the standard CCW as "A normal and a special weapon" and ignore the fist. However, "only a second power fist,... can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with one of these weapons." (emphasis mine)

 

all quotes P42 BRB.

[Grey Mage]

Sadly I believe your right... and thinking on it fluff-wise *dangerous, I know* but where would he hold the bolt pistol... in the PF arm? Unlikely.

 

Of course, it would make a simple house-rule.

[Legatus]

Sorry Legatus, I don't agree with you on that one - a model with 2 special CCWs (which the fist and power weapon are) "never get the bonus attack for using 2 weapons".

 

I understand that you are supposing that the model may choose to use the PW and the standard CCW as "A normal and a special weapon" and ignore the fist. However, "only a second power fist,... can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with one of these weapons." (emphasis mine)

 

all quotes P42 BRB.

Technically, those rules do not even apply to a model that is equipped with a CCW, a pistol and a powerfist.

 

"Some models are equipped with two single-handed weapons they can use in close combat, with the rules given below for the different possible combinations."

(Rulebook, page 42)

 

A model that is equipped with three single-handed weapons is not really adressed by that rule.

 

As I have suggested in a thread a while ago, the rules as they are written seem to assume that a model will only ever come with two weapons. The most reasonable way to apply those rules to models with more than those two weapons would be to have the model pick each combat phase which two weapons it will use that phase, and it will get the appropriate bonuses and attacks. For example, it is widely accepted that Marneus Calgar gets +1 attack when he uses his two powerfists to attack, but he will not get a bonus attack when he uses his power sword, since he can not combine the power sword with a powerfist for thw bonus attack, but using two power fists would grant that attack to him.

[nighthawks]

other than for the word "equipped" in the PF+other CCW rules...

 

I'll agree that the rules are NOT clear as to dealing with more than 2 single handed weapons. I still feel that they are clear that the penalty for being well equipped is a lack of bonus attacks (2 different special weapons - which is precisely the situation above.)

[Valerian]

other than for the word "equipped" in the PF+other CCW rules...

 

Nighthawks,

 

I see your point, but have to asked what your definition of equipped is? Your assumption appears to be that if the weapon or wargear has been "bought" (for lack of a better term) then it is "equipped". Another way to think about it is that "equipped" is when the weapon is ready for use. For example, when Calgar's power sword is in its sheath, then it is not "equipped", but rather just "being carried" by the model.

 

Just something for your consideration.

 

Valerian

[nighthawks]

I agree that the language could be less vague, in this and many other instances. as Legatus says, the rules are seemingly written with "up to" 2 CCWs maximum, and do not tell us how to treat models with more than 2 single handed CCWs. in these instances, I default to the least beneficial conclusion.

 

as for equipped - it can be used both to describe those tools in use, and those tools in the personal inventory. there's certainly not going to be a concensus built here, but it is a more unique word in the context of the page than "armed". that said, it could also be that tehy were simply using synonyms to break up the repetitiveness of the text. a worthy endeavor in creative writting, but not so much when you're writting rules.

 

I can agree to disagree, and I can agree to post this into the Grey Areas thread.