A hard desiscion :D

[Vissah]

Since I started playing 40K a year ago after an 10 year absent I got some old models form me mate and they were (what else) Space Marines.

I decided to bould a nice army with some fun units like the Legion of the Damned and I decided to take a rock hard Chapter called the Raptors who has been stuck on a deathworld and I can imagine that after some time ammo will run low and you will have to smash your way out of trouble.

After playing a lot of games for about a year and competing in my first tourny I did not to bad but there were some things that really bothered me.

 

The Marines a good army with some good stuff is very specialized but in my oppinnion are not hardcore enough in CC and yeah you see it comin ;)

After last wednesday game wich I was really playing good at and giving my opponent a good game I lost the game when the CC part of the game started to kick in. I lost a fair share of games cause of the my Tacticals getting there arses whooped in CC with just ONE attack.

 

Like my last game the combat is going ok it can go either way and I end up with 6 Marines and my Sarge. So the CC begins and I get w hole nice number of FIVE attack, FIVE attacks are they the so called hardcore Marines who will beat everyones head in?

I was just looking at my Marines and I could not think of it other then this:

I felt like they were standing there with there Power Armoured pants on there ankles getting there areses spanked by the assault squad they were in CC with

 

This is the part that lost me the game the CC fase.

Im a pretty aggrasive player and I dont like standing still and shooting I put my three Tacs in Rhinos and go forward to the objectives and trying to take ou tmy opponent, but hey if you go close you will get into CC and with ONE attack each it is hard to win or hold on for some turns against some units. Im not rantin cause this is the part that I really like about the game, NOSES NEED TO BE BROKEN !!!!!!!! so you need your attack sto do that ;)

 

And what is it with the so called undestructable Legion of the Damned wich I liek using cause those are my first converted models and the different colour makes for a nice change in your army. Sure a 3+ invulnereble is nice but they die as fast to bolterfire as a normal marine so I was thinking why not give them Plague Marine rules they are harrdcore like the LotD also should be.

 

So after looking through the Chaos dex and having fought them several times I decided to change codex to fit my aggresive playing style more. I dont like the Chaos models since IM not into mutations and demons and stuff so I will not be using those anyways and I really like the Alpha Legion. They are Loyal and using the Chaos dex aswell so why cant my strike force stay loyal and fight the same way they do

 

Anyway sorry for the long story but I just needed to get this of my chest and hope you guys will accept my change to the Chaos Dex (Dark Side) like you guys like to call it

[chaplain belisarius]

Welcome to the winning side! :)

 

I have also been trying to decide between space marines and chaos. I have been poring over my codexes and scratching my head aplenty.

 

Ive decided that marines are cool, have good background and lots of cool toys in their list but....

 

Their troops just arent that good and more importantly, they dont fit my tactics at all. I like to be mobile and aggressive, marines tend to hang back and shoot.

 

Ive basically decided to get a renegade marine chapter-Ive decided to call them the murder legion. My chaos army consists of lots of basic chaos space marine squads (or renegades, as i call them) led by my evil chaplain-Angrus Blitz.

 

I hope my ramblings have helped you out mate...:)

[Vissah]

Mate they sure did and thanx for the response ;)

Im still using lyalist Marine models and just say they are a renegade strike force or something.

I got the same problem as you I like to play aggresive and stay on the move with me rhinos with lost of troops and get into the thick of it.

Loyal Marines just hang back a bit more and shoot some more but I like to get in there ^_^

 

I also use Bikers cause I ride a bike myself so I just love them lol but no demons and mutated stuff :D

 

And agian thanx for the reply just a few more weapon swaps and Im done lol

Gonna play with my new list wednesday and I post here how it went :D

[incinerator950]

You know you could use your Marines as renegades and still use the Loyalist rules for them right?

[the jeske]

its a game play thing not a how models look/fluff thing.[specially as the fluff part is either non existant or butchered in the few last meq dex].

[Vissah]

Yeah Jeske Im more into the gameplay thing and when I have an opponent that starts complaining I just say they are newly turned renegade or something.

[Prot]

You sound like the perfect candidate to start.... Alpha Legion, World Eaters, or... dare I say Orks. Without getting too O.T. the Ork dex is still one of the best close combat types around, but if you want to stay 'marine', I think Alpha is a good choice. I nearly went that way myself, and then I read "Legion" and dropped it.

 

Welcome to the warp.

[Vissah]

Im not gonna touch the Xenos mate Im staying with Marines :lol:

I already got an army wich I used as Loyalists but I found out that when I waw thinking of starting Chaos I would build almost the same list so I counted the points and with some simple weapon swaps I can use the Chaos dex :tu:

Im not into Berzerkerz either I just wanna use the normal humble Marine wich can give away a good fight in CC and tha tis what I really mis in the Marine Codex.

 

It adds some more punch to my troopers wich I really can use :D

[GunnarRedsun]

Welcome to the warp brother. so have you thought about paint scheme, or a god? i know you said no berzerkers, but khorne dedicated marines are still fairly wicked. if your interested in doing non renagade though, i must say i agree with Prot. alpha legion would fit the models perfectly. anywolf, good luck

[Vissah]

Well Im fielding three units of Marines in Rhinos to go to the objectives and I got one unit of Legion of the Damned models wich are supposted to be zo hard but they are not so I hardly use them. I got an Apocalypse sheet were they get Feel no Pain so I decided on fielding them with the Plague Marine rules since they are hardcore aswell :wacko: Im giving them two Plasmaguns and they will be my main objective holders.

I really like my Bikers so Im not doing them away since I ride a Bike myself I just need a unit of them for the feel :devil:

My Marines are painted up all camo green style like the Raptors Chapters only darker then they are suppost to be.

 

Im not getting into Deamons and mutated stuff just straight Im gonna kill you Marines with no bling bling and stuff.

As I think of it when your evil you dont have to show it in body and armour you can be evil in mind and noone noticing it, if you ask me that is a lot more dangerous :P

[chaplain belisarius]

This is odd...this is exactly where im going with my renegade marine chapter...no cult troops, daemons or "funny" stuff...just lots of excellent troops choices (basic chaos marines).

 

Good luck with your army mate. :lol:

[incinerator950]

its a game play thing not a how models look/fluff thing.[specially as the fluff part is either non existant or butchered in the few last meq dex].

 

Jeske, some people like to make their stuff look good, a little more than usual because the gameplay is not that good anyway.

 

This isn't my topic but try not to sound so pessimistic please? We know about the flaws with the codex, but you don't have to scare away the newcomer.

[Askari]

I think jeske was just trying to explain that the OP didn't want to change to chaos because he preferred the look, but that he preferred the playstyle.

 

I'm pretty much the same. I love the fluff for the loyalists and want to make a loyalist army, but I like troop heavy builds and don't want to have to use special characters to be competitive. If it weren't for the super grit and two specials I would have definitely gone loyalists.

 

I know it certainly isn't the models that attracted me.The old warmsith model looks sweet, but i hate GW's idiotic "put spikes on it to make it evil" style.

[the jeske]

This isn't my topic but try not to sound so pessimistic please? We know about the flaws with the codex, but you don't have to scare away the newcomer.

its not aboue scaring away people , its about game play . A lot of people dont care much how they army looks like [hate paiting for example] , but they like to play with certain builds. for example its impossible to make a tier 1 hth army with the loyalist dex. closest thing you can do is a shriek build , but its based around scouts and giving a 10 man termi unit infiltration and fleet and as you may notice it does ok , only when you start . Am sure a lot of people think that playing an army , that loses because you didnt start it cant even be called boring, its lame. thats why people change to chaos . Or AL players switching to the sm dex [the 4th ed] when the new dex came out . Or sm players who liked assault sm based armies switching to BAs etc.

[Vissah]

You cant say I never tried out another build cause I played for almost a year and a lot of games with the SM codex and I really need some more CC in my troops choices.

That is the main point why Im switching cause I already playtested some Chaos lists and it suits my playstyle better.

 

I got one guy in our gaming group who is really good with Marines but he tend to hang back for most of the game shooting at everything and maybe at turn 3 or 4 he stars moving. I tried playing like that but I found it just plain boring to play like this.

I have always given my Tac Rhino to get into the fight but the lack in CC is what gets them beat down most of the time and yeah two specials is always nice so you dont need to think about shooting that heavy yes or no.

[chaplain belisarius]

exactly the problem ive had with marines. for my aggressive playstyle, tacticals just dont cut the mustard!

[farseerixirvost]

You cant say I never tried out another build cause I played for almost a year and a lot of games with the SM codex and I really need some more CC in my troops choices.

That is the main point why Im switching cause I already playtested some Chaos lists and it suits my playstyle better.

 

 

I too prefer the CSM rules, even if others think CSM stink. Like you, I'm a little more of a "standard troops" player, but do enjoy some of the Chaos toys (plague marines and oblits).

 

Realizing your decision is based on playstyle and not on fluff or background, let me just point out that there's nothing saying you can't use the CSM rules (for its playstyle), but say that your army is "Good Guys" Imperial Marines that just do NOT fight under the Codex Astartes format. Think of the Space Wolves. Talk about Imperial Marines spitting in the face of Reboute Guilliman (sp?) and his precious little Codex... So having a SM force where all troopers are kitted w/ Bolter, BP, AND CCW is not that big of a deal.

 

You could put Aquillas or Eagles on your "Chaos Icons" to make them "Icons of the Emperor" (and counts as Icon of Chaos Glory), or simply do normal banners on troopers w/ Chapter iconography and still use them as IoCG.

 

A "counts as" suggestion for the Legion of the Damned is Chosen. They loose scoring status, but can infiltrate (kinda like how LoD simply "shows up" during the game). Doing so also keeps those models in the same portion of the Force Org chart compared to the 'real' SM LoD (i.e., Elites).

 

Good luck w/ the new playstyle. CSM is sure fun! I'm more of the opposite of you, I play CSM but occasionally use ISM rules for a fun change of pace.

[Vissah]

Thanx mate but Im thinking of making the LotD as Plague Marines and then make there flames green like these guys

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bleak_Brotherhood

[Corpse.]

Average out the range use of your troops and they will work in synergy with each other. Range havocs + regular CSM's meant for melee = no no. Stick with similar range and you can bear weight down on any target in rapid fire, melee and ranged fire if you keep the army in theme. Aggressive means up close and personal, so the krak grenades can churn most tanks, dont forget the fists for all the other targets and you'll do fine.

 

Chaos marines embody the style of combat the original marines were meant for before the heresy. Loyalists really pulled away from their roots so its understandable why you want to divert.

 

Plague marines+regular marines are really good together, just be weary of the psyker battle squads people spam these days.

[DooshSahaal]

I'm actually creating an army using exclusively space marine models (at this stage) but i'm using the chaos codex.

 

my army is pretty fluffy, and so modify them slightly, but there's nothing stopping you from claiming they are newly turned renegades. Renegades are hip in the new chaos dex -.-

 

just my 2 cents mate, no one has complained about my loyalists-gone-bad.

 

welcome to the warp (:

 

-doosh

 

p.s. check out my renegades, the Incinerators, probably on the 2nd page of Liber Astartes

[Kinzel]

Started playing Marines back around 2001(Dark Angels yeah) then fell to the allure of Chaos and that's where I've stayed since. Fluff is important to me(read 'story and feel' rather than fluff per se) Not a big fan of the idea of Chaos though. The daemons and Chaos Gods and all that(Sacrilige!.. :P ) so I've tried to at least theme it as a loyalist army with the models maybe half/half chaos/loyal (some old ooold school chaos floating around too). Funny because I have a heavily converted Bloodthirster who I last used in 3rd edition who is now just 'leading them in spirit' since I don't have the heart to sell him.

 

Busy rebuilding my army and I've been torn between them for ages now. Stick with Chaos or ask for the Emperors forgiveness. I want to be Loyalists. I really do but everytime I think I've made a decision the pendulum swings back. I suppose it comes down to Chaos on the table and Loyalist at heart.

Made a list. Yeah I know, I'm bored mk.

 

Chaos

 

Ubergrit

Obliterators (Weapons for Africa and CC Punch? Where do I sign?)

Defilers (see oblits..)

Characters that can damn near kill anything in the game

Versatility of making your marines excel in a particular field but still be flexible (Havocs who are as good as Assault Marines in CC by default, Terminators who can take any combo of weapon options you feel like and all together too. The Deathwing never had it so good.)

-Marines who can flee if the going gets tough

-Terminators who will run like little girls if badly treated(Seriously?!) :lol:

 

Loyalist

 

And They Shall Know No Fear

Scouts

Razorbacks

Land Speeders (Crazyfast tinfoil tankhunters ftw)

Drop Pods

And They Shall Know No Fear (It's just that big to me ;>)

I love that Marine leaders can influence their troops through tactics

3+* Storm Shields that can stop lascannons

I won't have to worry about my Dreadnoughts shooting me in the back

Can take other Codex:Good Guys as allies

 

I love the idea of scouts/infiltrators as the theme for my army.Fluffwise marines are always massively outnumbered so tell me would you rather:

a) Lurk in the shadows harassing your opponent into submission and then hammering when and where you choose. =)

:) Bright shiny heraldic colours jumping up and down shouting Shoot ME! All heroic and stuff until you take a Leman Russ Company's worth of battle cannon rounds to the head. :/

 

Read through it again. little off topic sorry :/

Just my uh couple hundred cents :lol:

[Vissah]

Well I have to say I played my first game yesterday with the Chaos list that was in my head and it was doing reall, really, really good.

It is good to not have to worry about getting to close to the enemy so you get into CC and get your arse wooped.

Also firing two specials shooting all the pistols and then charging with 3 attacks a piece is something I loved doing :D

 

The game was a draw but that did not matter to me cause I found an army that worked for me and I love using :D

I will learn how to use it better ofcourse in time but still my first game as a draw with me new list was pretty satisfying :D

 

Thanx for all the advice and comments everyone :D

[Corpse.]

Wonderful, of your interested in variant lists then poking around tacticas, army list themes and posting up your own concept lists will help you refine any rough edges. (Also, dont take everything jeske says to heart, he's a tourny fella while most of us here are casual-common style)