Rending?

[Drexsun]

Hey, Bolter & Chainsword

 

I was looking up the rule for Rending Weapons and the Rending rule itself.. this is what it says.

 

Rending Weapons

: If a model armed with a rending close combat weapon rolls a 6 on any of his rolls to wound in close combat, the opponent automatically suffers a wound, regardless of its Toughness. These wounds count as wounds from a power weapon. Against vehicles, an armour penetration roll of 6 allows a further D3 to be rolled, with the result added to the total score.

 

Rending

: Any roll to wound of 6 with a rending weapon automatically causes a wound, regardless of the target's Toughness, and counts as AP2. Against vehicles, an armour penetration roll of 6 allows a further D3 to be rolled, with the result added to the total score.

 

The thing I am wondering is if it says they automatically suffer a wound does that mean they get to roll a save such as Inv? Or do they just take a wound and it Ignores saves of all kinds? But then it says in the Rending rule that it counts as a AP2 weapon so they would get a Inv save right because its is an AP2 weapon and you can save from AP stuff.

 

- Drexsun

[c-wrex]

RAW-no saves. They are automatically wounded.

[Drexsun]

C-wrex,

 

That's so hardcore.. o.o;; that means my gaming group has been playing the rending rule wrong. Makes Tyranid more hardcore too >.>

lol

 

- Drexsun

[Brother_Kluft]

They automatically wound sure, but it says nothing about not getting a save at all. It says they count as power weapons which disallows ARMOUR save but still would of course allow Inv saves.

 

Keep in mind that wounding (and allocation) happen before saves also.

[Legatus]

C-wrex,

 

That's so hardcore.. o.o;; that means my gaming group has been playing the rending rule wrong. Makes Tyranid more hardcore too >.> lol

It is incorrect too. A wound is caused when the to-wound roll is successful. See for example page 19 "Roll To Wound": To decide if a hit causes a telling wound, compare the weapon's Strength characteristic with the target's Toughness characteristic.

 

The wound on a rending roll of 6 is caused "automatic" because it wounds irrespective of whether it would even have been possible to wound on that roll based on the Strength and Toughness comparison. For example, Genestealers with Strength 4 could usually not hurt a Wraithlord with his Toughness of 8 at all, but when they roll a 6 to wound, they will inflict the "auromatic" rending wound, even though Strength 4 attacks could normally not wound the Wraithlord, not even on a roll of 6.

[Disruptor_fe404]

RAW-no saves. They are automatically wounded.

You get Invulnerable saves against power weapons and AP 2 weapons, so yes, Invulnerable saves against Rending 6s as well.

[Drexsun]

Hey,

 

So they still get an Inv save then.. but what does not make sense to me.. is why would it say its like being attacked by a power weapon.. and have a AP2.. I thought you need an Inv save from a power weapon already.. then why have a AP2 on that too?

 

- Drexsun

[Drexsun]

Hey,

 

So it would be pointless to put Rending on a Relic weapon right? Seeing the weapon gives you a STR of 6 so I can hit a good amount of units.. the only thing it would be good for is that it makes my weapon AP2 and when I attack a tank or anything with armour I get a D3 roll to add to it.

 

- Drexsun

[The Mystic]

The AP2 is in reference to shooting weapons that rend.

 

So you would wound on a 6 automatically and that shot would be at AP2.

[Drexsun]

Hey,

 

Well that's kinda crappy then for a melee weapon D: and whats the point of having that shot as AP2 if you Auto wound anyways.. Just does not make sense to me I guess.. D:

 

- Drexsun

[I AM THE AWESOME]

Hey,

 

Well that's kinda crappy then for a melee weapon D: and whats the point of having that shot as AP2 if you Auto wound anyways.. Just does not make sense to me I guess.. D:

 

- Drexsun

 

A weapon that automatically wounds does not bypass armor saves. A weapon with AP2 does, but doesn't automatically wound intrinsically.

[Lokied]

The AP2 is in reference to shooting weapons that rend.

 

So you would wound on a 6 automatically and that shot would be at AP2.

 

Exactly.

 

The rules in place for "Rending Weapons" are for weapons that themselves do the damage, i.e. hand-to-hand weapons like chainswords or talons. Essentially: non power weapons with rending that roll a 6 to wound are now counted as a power weapon.

 

The "Rending" rule is used for ranged weapons which deal damage through a medium. Example: A bolter with rending would not rend a target if you smacked the target with the gun, but the bolt round fired from it could rend the target.

 

All instances of "Rending" allow for automatic wounds. This means that a weapon that rends is potentially powerful enough to damage almost anything. A bolter (str4) could not normally wound a T10 creature. But give the bolter rending and as long as it rolls a 6 it not only causes a wound, but that wound is at AP2. Same principal for hand-to-hand weapons. Of course neither version negates invul or cover saves, only normal saves.

[c-wrex]

C-wrex,

 

That's so hardcore.. o.o;; that means my gaming group has been playing the rending rule wrong. Makes Tyranid more hardcore too >.> lol

It is incorrect too.

 

There ya go... I'm not so sharp on the rules, I'm more of a fluff buff honestly..

[Drexsun]

Hey,

 

Well it seems then that rending is really good for low str troops or a weapon that is not normaly a power weapon.

 

But still.. a power weapon makes it where you don't get armor saves right? If that's so then why even put the AP2 if they already don't get an armor save.

- Drexsun

[eyescrossed]

But still.. a power weapon makes it where you don't get armor saves right? If that's so then why even put the AP2 if they already don't get an armor save.

For ranged Rending weapons. You can't get shooting Power Weapon attacks, can you?

[Brother Amarel]

Hey,

 

Well it seems then that rending is really good for low str troops or a weapon that is not normaly a power weapon.

 

But still.. a power weapon makes it where you don't get armor saves right? If that's so then why even put the AP2 if they already don't get an armor save.

- Drexsun

Okay.

 

The sequence is:

 

Roll to hit

Roll to wound

Roll to save

 

If you get a six with a rending weapon in close combat you hit, you wound and you ignore standard, but not inv., saves (as per the power weapon rule).

If you get a six with a rending weapon in ranged combat you hit, you wound and your weapon counts as being AP2 for the sake of ignoring armour saves, but it does not ignore inv. saves.

 

Amarel.

[River Black]

Perhaps they made the rending count as ap 2 so that there isnt an additional damage bonus on the vehicle damage chart as there would be if it was ap1.

[Legatus]

Page 42 lists the typical close combat weapons. The rending weapons described there are not said to have AP 2. They are only said to count as power weapon wounds. No AP is mentioned, since close combat weapons do not operate with an AP. They either ignore armour, or they do not.

 

The rending weapons described on page 31 are ranged weapons. Ranged weapons do operate with an AP, and can bypass some armour saves while allowing others, depending on the AP value. Thus, a ranged rending weapon counts as having AP 2, basically also ignoring all kinds of armour.

 

 

Ranged Rending with wounding roll of 6 (page 31) --> counts as AP 2, so bypassing all armour saves

 

Close Combat Rending with wounding roll of 6 (page 42) --> counts as power weapon, so bypassing all armour saves

 

"AP 2" and "powerweapon" are basically the same effect. Ignoring all armour saves there are. It is merely one refering to the shooting mechanics (ranged weapons on page 31) and one to the close combat mechanics (close combat weapons on page 42).

[Drexsun]

Hey,

 

Okay I get it now with the ranged rending.. but now I Have another thing to ask.. whats the difference between AP2 and AP1 I mean both of them get rid of all armor saves.. because no one can have a 1+ Save that I know of.. does having a AP1 weapon like OB do anything special for it being AP1?

 

- Drexsun

[Seahawk]

AP 1 gives you a +1 when rolling on the vehicle damage table when shooting at vehicles. GW writes things so that you need to read through the entire book to understand anything :P.

[Drexsun]

Hey,

 

That's some bull D:

lol

damn reading and such.. >.> But that's good to know.. so does AP2 just.. like allow you to hit them or something? Where would I find these rules in the book?

 

- Drexsun

[eyescrossed]

Have you even read the whole Rulebook? B)

[Drexsun]

Hey,

No I have not read it cover to cover. I look up rules as we come upon them in the games we play its been working so far. Learn something new every game almost.

 

- Drexsun

[eyescrossed]

It'd be good to read all the rules. You may be doing something fundamentally wrong.

[Drexsun]

Hey,

 

Yeah I guess I start reading it in my down time at work.

- Drexsun