IA: The Knights Seraphic

[DarkGuard]

Have edited and changed article in response to criticism from Octavulg and Grey Hunter Ydalir.

 

Also, after considering Octavulg's comments on the name I decided to change it. With the Chapter's name being the Knights of Sieraph I would have had to elaborate there and then on Sieraph. As he is the founder of the Knightly Order that Karnak came from, it would make more sense for that Knightly Order to name themselves the Knights of Sieraph and for the Chapter to name themselves after them. It therefore felt better for the article to name the Chapter the Knights Seraphic while the original Knightly Order was named the Knights of Sieraph.

 

Now, any more comments?

Edited March 17, 2010 by DarkGuard

[DarkGuard]

Quick review, focussing mainly on the Redeemed. Slight changed in the Redemption and Homeworld sections to better tie the Redeemed to the Chapter and the Homeworld through an old tradition once practised on Ciasus. Interested on how you think it works or doesn't works. C+C always welcome.

[NightrawenII]

Over many years, Fallen were tracked down by the Redemption Fleet. Some repented to the Knights Seraphic, and during the Thirty-Seventh Millennium an honourable Chapter Master decreed that these Fallen not to be cut down mercifully, but to be able to engage in a dual with the Chapter Champion to first blood. This practise was based on a long forgotten tradition once practised by the Knightly Orders on Ciasus, whereby a traitor could regain his honour by defeating the chosen warrior of the Chapter in single combat. The dual is carried out with only the highest echelons of the Chapter as witnesses. If the Fallen wins the dual, then he will judged worthy in the Emperor’s eyes, and is given the armour of the Chapter and the title, ‘Redeemed’. He then joins the Redemption Fleets, working alongside them so that they may atone for their actions through service to the Emperor. But the Chapter is not so naive to let the Redeemed walk free. Their armour contains a meltabomb, which will activate if the Redeemed dies, or through manual detonation by the Chapter Master himself, erasing all evidence of their use. Unfortunately, the Chapter’s judgement is not infallible, and there have been some instances of meltabombs being detonated to prevent one of the Redeemed from reneging against the Chapter. If the Unforgiven or the Imperium discovers this secret, then the Knights Seraphic would face certain extinction.

+++++

In 785.M41 the Inner Circle rejoice once again, for another fallen was captured. Once again the members assemble in underground gladiator-pit to witness the honour duel between Chapter Champion and the misguided brother of the old legion. And lo! There he is! In the ancient suit, adorned with skullz and defiled with blood, his eyes shinning red and with hateful grin on his face, the Fallen oversee his captors.

"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLZ FOR THE SKULL THRONE!", he roar and charge at the stunned Chapter Champion, :cusspwn him and claim his skull for aforementioned skull throne.

After moment of awkward silence the Chapter Master speak,"Uhm, guys? Do you really think, he is suited for the the redemption?"

+++++

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

The Strike Cruisers, in addition to normal equipment such as launch bays, also contain teleporter technology. The extra power needed to use this technology results in the Strike Cruiser having a capacity of fifty marines. The Strike Cruiser contains two squads of ten veterans from the Second Company, who can be deployed on bikes, Land Speeders or utilising jump packs. The rest of the Strike Cruiser is occupied by six Terminator Squads from the First Company, each numbering five men, much like the Dark Angels’ Deathwing. The remaining veterans in the Redemption Fleets are found on the Gladius Frigates. Each of the three Gladius Frigates contains a ten man Second Company Squad.

Teleports are standart for Marines ships, or the BFG articles leads me to believe.

 

When assaulting an enemy ship the Space Marines still use Thunderhawk Gunships as their primary method of attack or so I remember. Basically, in perfect conditions I don't think it's much of a problem and yes it would be present on just about all Astartes troop ships. However, battle-teleporting is a different kettle of fish which is why it is not used more often.

You need to take shields of enemy ship down before teleporting. Also teleporting isn't exactly reliable, therefore boarding torpedoes and T-hawks are used.

[DarkGuard]

+++++

In 785.M41 the Inner Circle rejoice once again, for another fallen was captured. Once again the members assemble in underground gladiator-pit to witness the honour duel between Chapter Champion and the misguided brother of the old legion. And lo! There he is! In the ancient suit, adorned with skullz and defiled with blood, his eyes shinning red and with hateful grin on his face, the Fallen oversee his captors.

"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLZ FOR THE SKULL THRONE!", he roar and charge at the stunned Chapter Champion, :cusspwn him and claim his skull for aforementioned skull throne.

After moment of awkward silence the Chapter Master speak,"Uhm, guys? Do you really think, he is suited for the the redemption?"

+++++

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

That was pretty good, thanks for that, so simple a flaw. :jaw:

 

Of course with the Librarians and Chaplains around, they would be able to probe mind and soul and be absolutely sure that the Fallen is ready to be redeemed, the Chapter will make sure he is truly penitent, not just saying it to get a free pass out of a painful death.

 

Teleports are standart for Marines ships, or the BFG articles leads me to believe.

Is that still in there? My bad, I planned on taking that out ages ago, thanks for pointing that out for me.

[DarkGuard]

Well everything that has recently been commented on I'm pretty sure has been fixed. Any more comments on this IA, or should I try to resubmit it to the Librarium?

[Octavulg]

The Knights Seraphic Chapter was formed during the Seventh Founding, towards the end of the Thirty-Second Millennium from the geneseed of the most venerable Dark Angels Chapter. Interrogator-Chaplain Atonius led the veteran training cadre that would seek to build the fledgling Chapter. Initially recruits were sourced from a number of planets in the Segmentum Tempestus, most notably the feudal world of Ciasus. The children of the chivalric Knightly Orders such as the Knights of Sieraphic proved strong recruits for the Chapter, and it was one of their numbers, Auriel Karnak, who would become the first Chapter Master after he proved instrumental in repelling an Ork incursion on Ciasus. This planet became the Chapter’s homeworld, Auriel Karnak determining that its strong Knightly Orders would provide warriors who would make good Space Marines. Karnak then named the fledgling Chapter the Knights Seraphic, after his original Knightly Order.

 

You should directly state that the Knightly Orders are from Ciasus - it's not a direct link yet.

 

Also, I'd think Atonius would have made the decision about where the home world would be - in fact, making his influence a little more apparent would not go amiss. He could also name the Chapter (admiring the angelic nature of their name and something about their obedience or somesuch). If you develop Atonius' influence a bit more, Karnak breaking free is more impressive and a little more exciting.

 

Karnak then embarked on a successful crusade against the nearby Ork system that had plagued Ciasus. The fighting was fierce, the greenskins were a dangerous foe, but several key assaults on communications and supplies crippled the back of the Ork Empire and eventually it fell, Karnak himself defeating the Ork Warlord in single combat. The Knights Seraphic returned to Caisus and the building of the Chapter continued. Once they had reached full strength, Interrogator-Chaplain Atonius, told Karnak of the Dark Angel’s secret, and explained to him the Fallen and the Unforgiven’s sacred duty to force each one to repent. Atonius and his Veteran cadre then helped Karnak to construct his own Inner Circle.

 

The Knights did, not Karnak personally. Beware of turning this into "The Adventures of Karnak and the Knights Seraphic". Always tricky with an important figure in a Chapter.

 

Shortly after the secret was made known to Karnak, the Knights Seraphic replied to a call for help from a nearby system, also under attack from Orks. In the middle of the campaign, Atonius received a communiqué from the Dark Angels detailing the location of a Fallen in a nearby system. Atonius urged Karnak to quit the battle and pursue the Fallen, reminding Karnak of his ancient duty as a Son of the Lion. With a heavy heart, Karnak ordered the redeployment of his forces, but the information was false, there was no Fallen. Furthermore, the planet they had been defending was soon overrun by the Orks, and the civilian population slaughtered. What the fledgling Chapter Master did not know was that this was a test, to see if he would pursue the Fallen relentlessly regardless of the consequences. Satisfied that Karnak was now ready to lead on his own, Atonius and his veteran cadre departed for the Dark Angels. Karnak was left on Ciasus with his Chapter, deeply troubled by the recent events.

 

Devious! I like it!

 

After Atonius had left, Karnak locked himself in his room for weeks, not eating, not sleeping. Here he pondered the mission of his Chapter. Atonius had told him that they were meant to be an extension of the Dark Angels, aiding them in their quest to redeem themselves by hunting down the entire traitor contingent from the Heresy. Although he and his brethren had not committed this crime, Karnak was well aware of the blood of the Legion flowing through his veins, and knew that this duty could not be cast aside. But as a knight of Ciasus, Karnak had abided by the most important duty of all, to defend the people from danger; even if he gives up his life to fulfil it. Torn between the two duties Karnak remained in his tower, and was not seen until a month later.

 

Karnak would have been a squire, not a knight proper. He would have idealized men who did, though. Many of them'd likely serve still be serving as Chapter serfs.

 

When he returned, Karnak called to him his members of the Inner Circle, and repeated to them what he himself had pondered upon. His officers listened in wonderment at his proposal, one that would shape the Chapter for the rest of its existence. Karnak couldn’t break his vow to the Dark Angels, he couldn’t abandon the Hunt. They may not of have been at Caliban that day, but they owed it to their brother Chapters to help redeem the Dark Angels. However, Karnak could not allow this personal vendetta against the Unforgiven jeopardize their true meaning for existence, their true duty. He would not abandon the Imperium for some mistake that happened many years ago.

 

'Could not'. This is formal writing, and contractions are the enemy.

 

The homeworld of the Knights Seraphic is called Ciasus, which largely consists of large rolling plains, with occasional forests, and is located in the Segementum Tempestus.

 

Is it? The frequent mentions of it had made me miss it somehow. :tu:

 

The Imperium has designated Ciasus a feudal world. Little progress was made inbetween the first two encounters with the world by the Knights Seraphic, with the world only being on the cusp of gunpowder technology. When the Knights Seraphic named Ciasus their homeworld, its technology improved dramatically, and a PDF force was established.

 

Why? That's not necessarily normal procedure. Did they sympathize with the population and want to improve their lives or something?

 

Ciasus is also a world rich in tradition, and one of these traditions are the Knightly Orders. These Knightly Orders themselves are steeped in their own customs and beliefs. Notable among these is a strong sense of duty to the people they protect and a keen sense of honour. Different Orders practise different traditions, one of which are the redemption duals that the Knights Seraphic now partake in. Originally they were used to protect the states that they owed allegiances to from others, leading to conflicts. When the Ork attacks started these Knightly Orders then became crucial in defending Ciasus and was unified through their common enemy. After the Ork Empire that had plagued them so much was destroyed by the Knights Seraphic, the Knightly Orders remained, instead helping the PDF through supplying troops for them, in addition to helping with the recruitment of the Astartes. The Knights of Sieraph have long remained the primary Knightly Order for recruits into the Chapter, although other Orders also contribute.

 

This reminds me of Agaria from the Warlords series of games. A lot, actually. Though that's not a bad thing.

 

How have they remained strong and tough and thus good for recruits? Did they fall into internal squabbles once the Orks left?

 

You have the opportunity for a touch of grimdark by having the orders slowly sliding away from their ideals, but I'd understand if you didn't take it.

 

There have been many examples in history where the Knights Seraphic have utilized the two fighting styles of their Chapter to great effect. The fortress of Nehemiah, one of the Fallen, who enslaved the entire population of a planet, is one such example. A joint strike was performed by a Redemption Fleet, who infiltrated and invaded his Fortress, and the Fifth Company who engaged the bulk of his forces. By nightfall Nehemiah was captured, and his forces scattered.

 

Oh, tell us the name of the planet.

 

The Knights Seraphic wear dark, grey blue power armour, akin to the Space Wolves' colours but darker. Their shoulders are coloured black.

 

The shoulder rims are both coloured differently depending on what Company they belong to and whether or that they are a Sergeant. Normal Marines will wear their right shoulder rim in the colour of their Company (as per Codex dictates e.g. Third Company is red). The left shoulder rim is coloured the same blue-grey of the Chapter, while Sergeants will colour this rim in white. The Captains and Commands of each Company colour both rims in their Company colour.

 

As a side note, the Terminator Squads of the Chapter reverse the Chapter's colour scheme. Their armour is primarily black, while their shoulders and helmet are coloured dark grey blue.

 

The Chapter symbol itself consists of a single white wing with the wing tip orientated to the right and up. The Chapter uses the same squad icons as dictated by the Codex Astartes.

 

Not worth it, honestly. I'd put it in an Appendix, like the fight against Leviathan. I mean, we can see their scheme...

 

The Knights Seraphic view and venerate the Emperor much like the rest of the Adeptus Astartes, there are no divergences in this belief. Also, the Chapter, like all other Unforgiven Chapters venerate Lion El’Jonson, their Primarch and first leader of the Dark Angels.

 

Since each Chapter seems to have a fairly individualistic cult, they can't be conformist because there's not exactly anything to conform to.

 

Honour is an important part of the Chapter, and all the decisions made by the Chapter are based on what is honourable, and what they are duty bound to do. The Knights Seraphic seek to conduct themselves as true knights of the Imperium and its people.

 

What does honor mean, then? Explain the word, because it has been used for everything from killing your sister to killing yourself to killing your enemy to killing your friend to...

 

My, people kill other people a lot.

 

An individual battle cry that the Knights Seraphic uses has been recorded. It is an ancient battle cry, used by the old Knightly Order before Ciasus was chosen by the Chapter as its homeworld. This battle cry, usually said before entering battle, is as follows: ‘Non nobis sed patriae’, which roughly translates into: ‘Not for ourselves but for our charges’. This battle cry is thought to reflect upon the Chapter’s large sense of duty not for themselves and their superiors, but rather the people they are sworn to protect.

 

Try a rephrase, this is a little clunky.

 

I'd recommend:

 

"The battle-cry of the Knights Seraphic is older even than the Knightly Order its use was inherited from. "Non nobis sed patriae" has been the last thing to echo in the ears of many of the Chapter's foes. The cry roughly translates as "Not for ourselves, but for our charges," and well reflects the Chapter's dedication to their duty and the people who represent it."

 

* * *

 

I'll deal with the battle another time.

 

This is pretty damn good. You have the potential to make it even better, of course, but it's already quite nice. Expand a little more on some of the nuances and give it a few passes to check the writing and I think it'll be downright excellent.

 

Congratulations on the good work. ;) Now make it even better.

[DarkGuard]

You should directly state that the Knightly Orders are from Ciasus - it's not a direct link yet.

 

Also, I'd think Atonius would have made the decision about where the home world would be - in fact, making his influence a little more apparent would not go amiss. He could also name the Chapter (admiring the angelic nature of their name and something about their obedience or somesuch). If you develop Atonius' influence a bit more, Karnak breaking free is more impressive and a little more exciting.

 

My original idea for the Chapter would be at first they roamed the area and by chance came across Ciasus, which proved to have strong warriors. I was trying to get a good balancing act with Atonius as well. On the one hand he's leading the Veteran cadre so he will have a lot of input. On the other hand if he has too much influence then it becomes less feasible that the Chapter Master deviated. However, as a leading Chaplain it is feasible that he would know about the planet and choose it. I'm not sure about him choosing the name though, I prefer the idea of Karnak choosing the name to tie his new Chapter to the planet, it seems more powerful if Karnak does it rather than Atonius.

 

The Knights did, not Karnak personally. Beware of turning this into "The Adventures of Karnak and the Knights Seraphic". Always tricky with an important figure in a Chapter.

 

Noted, I'll try and tone it down about for Karnak, getting the balance right could be hard though, but I'll try.

 

Devious! I like it!

 

Thank you. Best way to show the best and worst of both Chapters I think. The Fallen are very rare, and I doubt the Dark Angels would rely on an unproven Chapter to Hunt them unless they had too. Also, it seemed very Dark Angel like with their secrets to set up this little test.

 

Karnak would have been a squire, not a knight proper. He would have idealized men who did, though. Many of them'd likely serve still be serving as Chapter serfs.

 

True, he was a squire. I like to think though that all these squires when they became Astartes would consider themselves 'Knights of Ciasus', it's figurative. But I will change it if it doesn't fit well. I do like the idea of some of the Knights being idealised by him, with one of them being a figurehead for him. I may have to write such a person into this IA.

 

'Could not'. This is formal writing, and contractions are the enemy.

 

Oops, that's me slipping up again :P

 

Is it? The frequent mentions of it had made me miss it somehow.

 

Seemed the most natural thing to start this section with.

 

Why? That's not necessarily normal procedure. Did they sympathize with the population and want to improve their lives or something?

 

The majority, well all of the Knights come from the population, so I would think they might have sympathised with them. Certainly if a PDF was established or something then I would imagine their technology would increase at a more rapid rate due to sharing technology. However, I'll make this less rapid.

 

This reminds me of Agaria from the Warlords series of games. A lot, actually. Though that's not a bad thing.

 

How have they remained strong and tough and thus good for recruits? Did they fall into internal squabbles once the Orks left?

 

You have the opportunity for a touch of grimdark by having the orders slowly sliding away from their ideals, but I'd understand if you didn't take it.

 

To keep the recruits tough some would have fallen into internal squabbles once more, but these wouldn't have been as common as before. The Chapter would intervene and prevent very bad events from happening, though.

 

Oh, tell us the name of the planet.

 

I'll make a name up later :P

 

Not worth it, honestly. I'd put it in an Appendix, like the fight against Leviathan. I mean, we can see their scheme...

 

I'll sort that out. I agree with you about that. Should I title an Appendix after the Battle Cry section and then sub-title the Battle and Colour scheme?

 

Since each Chapter seems to have a fairly individualistic cult, they can't be conformist because there's not exactly anything to conform to.

 

Each Chapter is an individual cult, but all Chapters tend to venerate the Emperor as the most remarkable human being, and all Chapters also tend to venerate their Primarch above the others. So it is kind of conformist here.

 

What does honor mean, then? Explain the word, because it has been used for everything from killing your sister to killing yourself to killing your enemy to killing your friend to...

 

My, people kill other people a lot.

 

Unfortunately people do kill a lot.

 

Honour for the Chapter is protecting the people and being good Knights (that's very Kingdom of Heaven isn't it?), so I'll make sure that's slipped in either the Origins or Beliefs section, or both.

 

Try a rephrase, this is a little clunky.

 

I'd recommend:

 

"The battle-cry of the Knights Seraphic is older even than the Knightly Order its use was inherited from. "Non nobis sed patriae" has been the last thing to echo in the ears of many of the Chapter's foes. The cry roughly translates as "Not for ourselves, but for our charges," and well reflects the Chapter's dedication to their duty and the people who represent it."

 

My usual writing, clunky ;).

 

I'll rephrase, possibly shamelessly nicking your rephrasing...

 

I'll deal with the battle another time.

 

This is pretty damn good. You have the potential to make it even better, of course, but it's already quite nice. Expand a little more on some of the nuances and give it a few passes to check the writing and I think it'll be downright excellent.

 

Congratulations on the good work. Now make it even better.

 

I'm looking forward to the battle, a different style of writing I think to the rest of the IA.

 

Thanks again, will implement the changes and check for spelling a couple of times.

 

Thank you once more, and hope I can make this better.

[Octavulg]

My original idea for the Chapter would be at first they roamed the area and by chance came across Ciasus, which proved to have strong warriors. I was trying to get a good balancing act with Atonius as well. On the one hand he's leading the Veteran cadre so he will have a lot of input. On the other hand if he has too much influence then it becomes less feasible that the Chapter Master deviated. However, as a leading Chaplain it is feasible that he would know about the planet and choose it. I'm not sure about him choosing the name though, I prefer the idea of Karnak choosing the name to tie his new Chapter to the planet, it seems more powerful if Karnak does it rather than Atonius.

 

I find it kind of petty when Karnak does it, actually. He names his Space Marine Chapter, the will of the Emperor made manifest...after his old Knightly Order on some podunk planet in the middle of nowhere. It comes across as kind of selfishly self-involved.

 

True, he was a squire. I like to think though that all these squires when they became Astartes would consider themselves 'Knights of Ciasus', it's figurative. But I will change it if it doesn't fit well. I do like the idea of some of the Knights being idealised by him, with one of them being a figurehead for him. I may have to write such a person into this IA.

 

Might be better to have more than one - don't want it to become 'The Adventures of Karnak's Mentor' either.

 

The majority, well all of the Knights come from the population, so I would think they might have sympathised with them. Certainly if a PDF was established or something then I would imagine their technology would increase at a more rapid rate due to sharing technology. However, I'll make this less rapid.

 

Alternately, explain that.

 

To keep the recruits tough some would have fallen into internal squabbles once more, but these wouldn't have been as common as before. The Chapter would intervene and prevent very bad events from happening, though.

 

Again, so explain this. ;)

 

I'll sort that out. I agree with you about that. Should I title an Appendix after the Battle Cry section and then sub-title the Battle and Colour scheme?

 

I'd do something like:

 

Appendix I: Heraldry

 

Appendix II: Engagement against Leviathan (or whatever)

 

Each Chapter is an individual cult, but all Chapters tend to venerate the Emperor as the most remarkable human being, and all Chapters also tend to venerate their Primarch above the others. So it is kind of conformist here.

 

Kind of, but there are better ways to express it.

 

Honour for the Chapter is protecting the people and being good Knights (that's very Kingdom of Heaven isn't it?), so I'll make sure that's slipped in either the Origins or Beliefs section, or both.

 

Put it in Beliefs. Explain honor fully.

 

QUOTE

Try a rephrase, this is a little clunky.

 

I'll rephrase, possibly shamelessly nicking your rephrasing...

 

I offer these things to be used without qualm.

 

I'm looking forward to the battle, a different style of writing I think to the rest of the IA.

 

A shift in tone and style is often enjoyable.

 

Thanks again, will implement the changes and check for spelling a couple of times.

 

Thank you once more, and hope I can make this better.

 

I have confidence you will. :P

 

Don't forget to expand some in the places where I ask 'why'.

[DarkGuard]

I find it kind of petty when Karnak does it, actually. He names his Space Marine Chapter, the will of the Emperor made manifest...after his old Knightly Order on some podunk planet in the middle of nowhere. It comes across as kind of selfishly self-involved.

 

That would be the other side to this idea. Atonius does lend it to be a less selfish choice, so I'll go with your idea. Perhaps Atonius is struck by the fervour of these warriors and see something of the Seraphs in them, so naming the Chapter Knights Seraphic? I suppose it would also make it slightly remarkable that a member of the Knights of Sieraph was the first Chapter Master, due to the names being similar and such. Coincidence or fate? I think the reader can decide that.

 

Might be better to have more than one - don't want it to become 'The Adventures of Karnak's Mentor' either.

 

'The Adventures of Karnak's Mentor', the prequel to 'The Adventures of Karnak and the Knights Seraphic'. :P

 

A good idea there'll be many of them who hold up the ideal of his Knightly Order.

 

Alternately, explain that.

 

Again, so explain this.

 

Will explain it more fully.

 

I'd do something like:

 

Appendix I: Heraldry

 

Appendix II: Engagement against Leviathan (or whatever)

 

Will do that as well.

 

Kind of, but there are better ways to express it.

 

Will look into other IAs for better ideas on how to express this.

 

Put it in Beliefs. Explain honor fully.

 

Will also do that.

 

I offer these things to be used without qualm.

 

In that case thank you very much ;)

 

A shift in tone and style is often enjoyable.

 

Agreed, same style can get very boring.

 

I have confidence you will.

 

Don't forget to expand some in the places where I ask 'why'.

 

Thank you again, and I will look into those places and expand them. Hopefully the newly edited version will be done by end of today or tomorrow.

[Octavulg]

That would be the other side to this idea. Atonius does lend it to be a less selfish choice, so I'll go with your idea. Perhaps Atonius is struck by the fervour of these warriors and see something of the Seraphs in them, so naming the Chapter Knights Seraphic? I suppose it would also make it slightly remarkable that a member of the Knights of Sieraph was the first Chapter Master, due to the names being similar and such. Coincidence or fate? I think the reader can decide that.

 

That or you can have him do it intentionally, admiring the ideals of the Order in question and the appropriateness of the name. Coincidence is likely better, though.

 

Thank you again, and I will look into those places and expand them. Hopefully the newly edited version will be done by end of today or tomorrow.

 

Don't rush too much. :) There is plenty of time - neither the Librarium or you are going anywhere. :P

[DarkGuard]

That would be the other side to this idea. Atonius does lend it to be a less selfish choice, so I'll go with your idea. Perhaps Atonius is struck by the fervour of these warriors and see something of the Seraphs in them, so naming the Chapter Knights Seraphic? I suppose it would also make it slightly remarkable that a member of the Knights of Sieraph was the first Chapter Master, due to the names being similar and such. Coincidence or fate? I think the reader can decide that.

 

That or you can have him do it intentionally, admiring the ideals of the Order in question and the appropriateness of the name. Coincidence is likely better, though.

 

Thank you again, and I will look into those places and expand them. Hopefully the newly edited version will be done by end of today or tomorrow.

 

Don't rush too much. :) There is plenty of time - neither the Librarium or you are going anywhere. :(

 

Coincidence can be fun here.

 

I won't rush too much, but I don't have much else to do so it'll be done faster because of that :P

[DarkGuard]

Editing of article complete relating to Octavulg's comments. Proofread as well.

 

One major change is switch of Colours and Heraldry section to the Appendix alongside the Tyranid battle, so it can now be found at the end.

 

Thank you everyone so far, I think I'm nearly near, please, keep your C+C coming :)

[DarkGuard]

OK I've been away, had things to do (like get a job for money for uni and all that stuff), and with preparing for the local Triple Crown Tournament I haven't had much time to dedicate to this IA. I have had a couple of quick looks, and given it to some friends to read, and they and I cannot see much wrong with it. At the moment I'm worried about trying to fine tune it and ruining it, akin to fixing up a painting with a large brush if you get my meaning. What do you guys think? Pretty much finished or ready for Librarium?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Ace Debonair]

Well, in response to your request I just read through the IA from top to bottom.

 

I couldn't spot anything wrong with it, nor anything that I think needs changing.

It's a good read, from origins to appendices. Good stuff! :jaw:

[DarkGuard]

Thanks there Ace Debonair, it is good to know that I'm nearly finished or am finished with it, at least for now. Will see what a few more people say before resubmitting it to the Librarium but am very optimistic about it at the moment.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I don't have the time for a full review, nor do I think I could do better than the Librarium staff at spotting anything that looks out of place so my apologies for writing such a brief post.

 

What I would say is that you are still, in places, getting bogged down a bit easily. The sidebar of the council is a good example.

 

It is composed of the three most senior Captains in the Chapter, the two Redemptor Captains, and the First Captain. The Redemptors are considered equals in the Redemption Fleets, each one controls one of these specialized formations, while the First Captain is first and foremost of all Captains, despite him actually being Captain of the Third Company. This possibly stems from the fact that the First and Second Captains, the Redemptors, are removed from the rest of the Chapter's forces, and so the Third Captain is viewed as many other Chapters will view a First Captain

 

... and his brothers sister was the teacher to their cousins second son...

 

The explanation is there but it seems like it's trying too hard to be a justification of the first captains position as first captain. If the Redemption fleets are separate from the rest of the chapters organization, why not simply re-number the remaining companies? You are already trying to distance yourself from the Dark Angels I don't see why you need to follow their organization to the letter and then spend time explaining something you've added in their terms.

 

The Council is meant to function like the Mournival, I get that, but as it stands that sidebar is less about the council and what they do than justifying the captaincy of it's members. What exactly do they do?

[DarkGuard]

I don't have the time for a full review, nor do I think I could do better than the Librarium staff at spotting anything that looks out of place so my apologies for writing such a brief post.

 

What I would say is that you are still, in places, getting bogged down a bit easily. The sidebar of the council is a good example.

 

It is composed of the three most senior Captains in the Chapter, the two Redemptor Captains, and the First Captain. The Redemptors are considered equals in the Redemption Fleets, each one controls one of these specialized formations, while the First Captain is first and foremost of all Captains, despite him actually being Captain of the Third Company. This possibly stems from the fact that the First and Second Captains, the Redemptors, are removed from the rest of the Chapter's forces, and so the Third Captain is viewed as many other Chapters will view a First Captain

 

... and his brothers sister was the teacher to their cousins second son...

 

The explanation is there but it seems like it's trying too hard to be a justification of the first captains position as first captain. If the Redemption fleets are separate from the rest of the chapters organization, why not simply re-number the remaining companies? You are already trying to distance yourself from the Dark Angels I don't see why you need to follow their organization to the letter and then spend time explaining something you've added in their terms.

 

The Council is meant to function like the Mournival, I get that, but as it stands that sidebar is less about the council and what they do than justifying the captaincy of it's members. What exactly do they do?

 

I see what you mean there, the sidebar is not that helpful in the slightest. Given that the Redemption Fleets are explained earlier on do you feel that all the justification for the 3rd Company Captain being the First Captain is already touched upon? I would like to keep the numbering the same however for my own sanity more than anything, and it helps with other people understanding the Chapter in organizational purposes, so that the first reserve Company is still the 6th Company rather than the 4th which is normally a Battle Company and so on.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

The fighting was fierce, the greenskins were a dangerous foe, but several key assaults on communications and supplies crippled the back of the Ork Empire and eventually it fell.

- Would the Orks even care about communications and supplies? They're Orks - to quote someone, I forget who; "Orks think tactics are little mints."

 

Once they had reached full strength Interrogator-Chaplain Atonius told Karnak of the Dark Angel’s secret, and explained to him the Fallen and the Unforgiven’s sacred duty to force each one to repent.

- From what I understand, the Dark Angels don't tell their own "Line Marines" yet they break it to this new guy? Here I think it is best if the Cadre remains as the first part of the Inner Circle.

 

But while a squire of the Knights of Sieraph, Karnak had been taught to abide by the most important duty of all, to defend the people from danger; even if he gives up his life to fulfil it.

- From what I can gather, especially from the book Salamander, the psycho-indoctrination techniques used destroy/replace the memories and other emotional/mental viscera from a Marine; so would he really remember?

 

or through manual detonation by the Chapter Master himself....

- The whole Meltabomb thing seems a bit.. movie-ish, but this in particular is a tad odd as it means that instead of being with the Fleets the Redeemed must be near the Chapter Master or there is no threat.

 

Its high altitude means that only the most determined and physically capable aspirants and enemies can reach it.

- Unaugmented Humans would have insufficient ability to survive in such conditions, unless they are accustomed to it; as in they live upon mountains. It doesn't really work for me.

 

RE: First Captain title.

- Just leave out the whole Third is First thing and go for:

Redemptor, Redemptor, First Captain, Second Captain...

 

Less confusing!

 

RE: Appendix I & II

- Are they really needed? Yes they add a bit of colour, but does it detract from the rest of the article.

[DarkGuard]

- Would the Orks even care about communications and supplies? They're Orks - to quote someone, I forget who; "Orks think tactics are little mints."

 

Yeah good point, perhaps change that to assaults on Ork clan leaders, leading to a collapse as the Orks fight within each other and so on.

 

- From what I understand, the Dark Angels don't tell their own "Line Marines" yet they break it to this new guy? Here I think it is best if the Cadre remains as the first part of the Inner Circle.

 

The cadre knew they would eventually depart. All the Dark Angel Successors have their own Inner Circle, and it has to start somewhere, so it makes perfect sense that the new Chapter Master would be told of the Fallen and then have help constructing his own Inner Circle.

 

- From what I can gather, especially from the book Salamander, the psycho-indoctrination techniques used destroy/replace the memories and other emotional/mental viscera from a Marine; so would he really remember?

 

Yet in other books it seems that memories of certain people are not removed or destroyed. The Marine would not just forget everything would he not? Also, Ciasus is the planet's homeworld, and the planet's ideals would also contribute to the Chapter Master's position.

 

- The whole Meltabomb thing seems a bit.. movie-ish, but this in particular is a tad odd as it means that instead of being with the Fleets the Redeemed must be near the Chapter Master or there is no threat.

 

Yeah, so either take them out or switch control to the Redemptors. I'm tempted to take them out.

 

- Unaugmented Humans would have insufficient ability to survive in such conditions, unless they are accustomed to it; as in they live upon mountains. It doesn't really work for me.

 

A lot of Chapter keeps are placed in mountains, and humans can live there. However, getting there on your own two feet without help can sort out the strong from the weak. Look at Rynn's World. The humans could live there, but I'd wager they would have struggled to get there if they hadn't been airlifted in by air transport. Of course, the Chapter would conduct its trials in the capital, so perhaps it's better if I take the recruits out, and leave it as enemies.

 

RE: First Captain title.

- Just leave out the whole Third is First thing and go for:

Redemptor, Redemptor, First Captain, Second Captain...

 

Less confusing!

 

I don't find it so confusing myself, I feel it would be more confusing if I start saying the 8th Company is the Scout Company, not the Assault Reserve. It really is just the normal titles, but First Captain is instead a title much like Master of the Fleet, or Master of the Watch.

 

RE: Appendix I & II

- Are they really needed? Yes they add a bit of colour, but does it detract from the rest of the article.

 

True. I am thinking of writing up things like character rules for my own characters and stuff, so perhaps I could take them out and do a Compilation sort of thing. Neither are really needed, but I'll hold onto them.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

- From what I understand, the Dark Angels don't tell their own "Line Marines" yet they break it to this new guy? Here I think it is best if the Cadre remains as the first part of the Inner Circle.

 

The cadre knew they would eventually depart. All the Dark Angel Successors have their own Inner Circle, and it has to start somewhere, so it makes perfect sense that the new Chapter Master would be told of the Fallen and then have help constructing his own Inner Circle.

 

Yes, but I would imagine many hundreds of years would pass... Otherwise a member of the Deathwing would be a far better choice for Chapter Master.

 

- From what I can gather, especially from the book Salamander, the psycho-indoctrination techniques used destroy/replace the memories and other emotional/mental viscera from a Marine; so would he really remember?

 

Yet in other books it seems that memories of certain people are not removed or destroyed. The Marine would not just forget everything would he not? Also, Ciasus is the planet's homeworld, and the planet's ideals would also contribute to the Chapter Master's position.

 

Perhaps, but again that would take time to become ingrained in the Chapter.

 

- The whole Meltabomb thing seems a bit.. movie-ish, but this in particular is a tad odd as it means that instead of being with the Fleets the Redeemed must be near the Chapter Master or there is no threat.

 

Yeah, so either take them out or switch control to the Redemptors. I'm tempted to take them out.

 

It sounds vaguely exciting, but also a bit belief shattering.. I say remove.

 

- Unaugmented Humans would have insufficient ability to survive in such conditions, unless they are accustomed to it; as in they live upon mountains. It doesn't really work for me.

 

A lot of Chapter keeps are placed in mountains, and humans can live there. However, getting there on your own two feet without help can sort out the strong from the weak. Look at Rynn's World. The humans could live there, but I'd wager they would have struggled to get there if they hadn't been airlifted in by air transport. Of course, the Chapter would conduct its trials in the capital, so perhaps it's better if I take the recruits out, and leave it as enemies.

 

But like I said, if that Human never spends its life in such a climate it would be unable to become accustomed and therefore be unable survive at all.. Even with superior willpower!

 

RE: First Captain title.

- Just leave out the whole Third is First thing and go for:

Redemptor, Redemptor, First Captain, Second Captain...

 

Less confusing!

 

I don't find it so confusing myself, I feel it would be more confusing if I start saying the 8th Company is the Scout Company, not the Assault Reserve. It really is just the normal titles, but First Captain is instead a title much like Master of the Fleet, or Master of the Watch.

 

By confusing I mean when you discuss it in the sidebar - it reads/sounds a bit convoluted. Besides, you will know what you mean, you penned it!

 

RE: Appendix I & II

- Are they really needed? Yes they add a bit of colour, but does it detract from the rest of the article.

 

True. I am thinking of writing up things like character rules for my own characters and stuff, so perhaps I could take them out and do a Compilation sort of thing. Neither are really needed, but I'll hold onto them.

 

If the rest passes muster, but the article is still lacking then consider readding the Hive Fleet part, but right now.. i don't see that it's needed!

[DarkGuard]

Yes, but I would imagine many hundreds of years would pass... Otherwise a member of the Deathwing would be a far better choice for Chapter Master.

 

I'd have to disagree with this here, I'd imagine the Dark Angels would monitor the Chapter and decide who is best to start the Inner Circle. Furthermore, the Dark Angels consider their Successor Chapters as an extension of themselves, able to use them for data and to contribute for the search for the Fallen, that's why those Chapters refer to themselves as the Unforgiven. I just feel that the Dark Angels would prefer to get as many of their Successor Chapters up and hunting as quickly as possible.

 

Perhaps, but again that would take time to become ingrained in the Chapter.

 

I feel it wouldn't, as all Chapters have ideals that affect them and make them different. The Salamanders are humanitarium while other Chapters couldn't care less about humans. If all psycho indoctrination affected all Marines the same then where does the diversity come from? I feel it comes from the homeworld and is so deeply ingrained that the psycho indoctrination cannot remove it. Also, his mentors are there for him to talk to still, so they could counsel him and remind him anyway.

 

It sounds vaguely exciting, but also a bit belief shattering.. I say remove.

 

Noted, and will be doing that soon.

 

But like I said, if that Human never spends its life in such a climate it would be unable to become accustomed and therefore be unable survive at all.. Even with superior willpower!

 

You have a point. I'll still keep the Chapter Fortress there, maybe just tone the environment down a notch.

 

By confusing I mean when you discuss it in the sidebar - it reads/sounds a bit convoluted. Besides, you will know what you mean, you penned it!

 

I plan to revise this, most likely by having a more detailed look into the different naming of the Companies in the Organization section, before outlining what the Council actually do and who composes it in the sidebar.

 

 

Thanks again for your input Juan, I'll look round to changing this as soon as I can.

[DarkGuard]

Have now implemented some of Captain Juan Juarez's suggestions and criticisms into the IA. Appendices have been removed and Council of Three text being revised are the main areas of improvement.

[DarkGuard]

Have done a full review and editing of article. Switched a couple of things that Captain Juan Juarez pointed out (like Orks and their need for communications and supplies) that I forgot last time.

 

At this point I am very happy with the IA article, and after replies from some people on here as well as others at my local GW I'm getting the impression that most consider this a good solid IA article. If anyone has any more suggestions or criticism (or just want to read it), please feel welcome. However, I will be resubmitting this to the Librarium and hoping it gets through this time (3rd time lucky and all that). Thank you all those who have helped, and I'll let you know if it gets through.

 

Thank you again for your time and effort on this.

[Octavulg]

[Octavulg crashes to earth. Lights candy cigar.]

 

I'm back baby.

 

[Women swoon.]

 

Summary: Tighten up the writing. It's pretty good - but it wouldn't take much to make it excellent. With a little more polish, the flow would improve and the points about redemption and the Chapter's two duties could really come to the fore.

 

The Knights Seraphic Chapter was formed during the Seventh Founding, towards the end of the Thirty-Second Millennium from the geneseed of the most venerable Dark Angels Chapter. Interrogator-Chaplain Atonius led the veteran training cadre that would seek to build the fledgling Chapter. Initially recruits were sourced from a number of planets in the Segmentum Tempestus, before Atonius named the feudal world of Ciasus as the Chapter’s homeworld. The children of the chivalric Knightly Orders of Ciasus proved strong recruits for the Chapter, particularly the warriors of the Knights of Sieraph Order. It was one from their number, Auriel Karnak, who would become the first Chapter Master after he proved instrumental in repelling an Ork incursion on his homeworld. Atonius was impressed by the local culture and legends of the world and so named the Chapter the Knights Seraphic, after the fiery angels of myth whispered by the local inhabitants.

 

After being named Chapter Master Karnak embarked on a successful crusade against the nearby Ork system that had plagued Ciasus. The fighting was fierce, the greenskins were a dangerous foe, but several key assaults on clan leaders crippled the back of the Ork Empire, leading to infighting amongst the greenskin forces, and eventually it fell. The Knights Seraphic returned to Ciasus and the building of the Chapter continued. Once they had reached full strength Interrogator-Chaplain Atonius told Karnak of the Dark Angel’s secret, and explained to him the Fallen and the Unforgiven’s sacred duty to force each one to repent. Atonius and his Veteran cadre then helped Karnak to construct his own Inner Circle.

 

Writing could be tightened up a bit. Try:

 

"The Knights Seraphic were formed during the Seventh Founding from the geneseed of the venerable Dark Angels. Interrogator-Chaplain Atonius led the training cadre that sought to build the fledgling Chapter. Initial recruits came from a number of planets in the Segmentum Tempestus, but after Atonius named the feudal world of Ciasus as the Chapter's home world it was the children of that world's chivalric Knightly Orders who provided the strong warriors the Chapter needed. Atonius was impressed by the reverence for duty and chivalry prominent in the culture of the world, and so named the Chapter the Knights Seraphic, after the fiery angels of local myth and the darker angels of the Chapter's superhuman ancestry.

 

The first Chapter Master of the Knights Seraphic was young Auriel Karnak, who had proved instrumental in repelling an Ork incursion on Ciasus and demonstrated an aptitude for leadership and strategy throughout his training. With Atonius' mentorship and guidance, Chapter Master Karnak embarked on a successful crusade against the Ork systems which dotted the space around Ciasus. Though the fighting was fierce and the greenskins were dangerous foes, careful assaults on clan leaders broke the back of the petty Ork kingdoms, driving them into the anarchy and infighting which always lurks below the surface of Orkin culture. Divided and weak, the greenskins fell to the Knights Seraphic, who returned in triumph to Ciasus. At full strength and hardened by battle, the Chapter was by any measure ready to serve the Emperor, and so Atonius confessed to Karnak the terrible secret of the Dark Angels - the tale of the Fallen and of the Unforgiven's sacred duty to force their repentance."

 

I think you get the idea - compress.

 

Shortly after the secret was made known to Karnak, the Knights Seraphic replied to a call for help from a nearby system, under attack from the piratical Dark Eldar. In the middle of the campaign, Atonius received a communiqué from the Dark Angels detailing the location of one of the Fallen in a nearby system. Atonius urged Karnak to quit the battle and pursue the Fallen, reminding him of his ancient duty as a Son of the Lion. With a heavy heart, Karnak ordered the redeployment of his forces, but the information was false, there was no Fallen. Furthermore, the planet they had been defending was soon overrun by the Dark Eldar, and the civilian population slaughtered. What the fledgling Chapter Master did not know was that this was a test, to see if he would pursue the Fallen relentlessly regardless of the consequences. Satisfied that Karnak was now ready to lead on his own, Atonius and his veteran cadre departed for the Dark Angels. Karnak was left on Ciasus with his Chapter, deeply troubled by the recent events.

 

Take out 'furthermore'. I'd also recommend taking out the bit about Karnak knowing or not knowing - it's neat, but it isn't strictly necessary (though hinting at it might make an interesting sidebar). It distracts, but it doesn't really do that much.

 

After Atonius had left, Karnak locked himself in his room for weeks, not eating, not sleeping. Here he pondered the mission of his Chapter. Atonius had told him that they were meant to be an extension of the Dark Angels, aiding them in their quest for redemption by hunting down the traitor contingent from the Heresy. Although he and his brethren had not committed this crime, Karnak was well aware of the blood of the Legion flowing through his veins, and knew that this duty could not be cast aside. But while a squire of the Knights of Sieraph, Karnak had been taught to abide by the most important duty of all, to defend the people from danger; even if he gives up his life to fulfil it. Torn between these two duties Karnak remained in his tower, and was not seen until a month later.

 

The "them" is inspecific.

 

Something like:

 

"After Atonius had left, Karnak remained cloistered in his chambers for weeks, neither eating nor sleeping. Here he pondered the mission of his Chapter. Atonius had told Karnak that the Knights Seraphic were meant to be an extension of the Dark Angels, pursuing redemption for all the Unforgiven by hunting down the Fallen. Although he and his brethren had not committed this crime, Karnak was well aware of the blood of the Legion flowing through his veins, and knew that this duty could not be cast aside. But while a squire of the Knights of Sieraph, Karnak had been taught to abide by the most important duty of all, to defend the people from danger; even if he gives up his life to fulfil it. Torn between these two duties, Karnak remained in his tower and was not seen until a month later."

 

Again - tighten. It's so close to being excellent I can taste it.

 

When he returned, Karnak called to him his members of the Inner Circle, and repeated to them what he himself had pondered upon. His officers listened in wonder at his proposal, one that would shape the Chapter for the rest of its existence. Karnak could not break his vow to the Dark Angels; he would not abandon the Hunt. They may not have been at Caliban that day, but they owed it to their brother Chapters to help redeem the Dark Angels. However, Karnak could not allow this personal vendetta against the Unforgiven to jeopardize their true duty. He would not abandon the Imperium for some mistake that happened many years ago.

 

Emerged, not returned. 'Wonder' makes his officers seem a little...credulous. You're also a little too matter-of-fact...

 

Perhaps:

 

"When he emerged, Karnak called together his Inner Circle, and told them of his meditations. The Knights Seraphic were torn by twin duties - one to their heritage and their brethren, the other to the people of the Imperium. Forsaking either was impossible, and could only damn them further in the eyes of the Emperor - the guilt of Caliban already stained their souls, but so would forsaking their duties to pursue a fraternal vendetta. But no man could serve two masters - and Space Marines are still men, for all that they are heroes."

 

At the moment you don't actually give the two duties euqal weight - try and make them feel a little more balanced. :)

 

And so it was that Chapter Master Auriel Karnak split his Chapter. Drawing on the Deathwing and the Ravenwing of the Dark Angels, two independent units of the Chapter were formed, called Redemption Fleets. Each would hold a portion of the First and Second Companies’ strength, and each would be led by either the First Company Captain or the Second Company Captain, named Redemptors. These Fleets would react to any indication of the presence of the Fallen, allowing the main body of the Chapter to fulfil its primary purpose and duty, the protection of the Imperium of Mankind. To the outside world, however, they would only be seen as fast response Veteran units in service to the Chapter.

 

This whole paragraph is a little bit too big. Try:

 

"So Karnak split the Chapter. Drawing on the Deathwing and Ravenwing of the Dark Angels, he formed two independent formations within the Chapter, calling them Redemption Fleets. Formed from the first and second companies, and lead by the newly honored Redemptor Captains, these fleets would react to the presence of the Fallen, while the main body of the Chapter devoted itself to its primary purpose and duty - the protection of the Imperium of Mankind. To the outside world, the Redemptor Fleets would seem nothing more than quick-response formations, but to the Knights Seraphic they would be a hope for salvation."

 

Over many years, many Fallen were tracked down by the Redemption Fleets. Some truly repented to the Knights Seraphic, and during the Thirty-Seventh Millennium an honourable Chapter Master named Kaelen decreed that these Fallen not to be cut down mercifully, but to be able to engage in a dual with the Chapter Champion to first blood. This dual is carried out with only the highest echelons of the Chapter as witnesses. If the Fallen wins the dual, then he will judged worthy in the Emperor’s eyes, and is given the armour of the Chapter and the title, ‘Redeemed’. He then joins the Redemption Fleets, working alongside them so that they may atone for their actions through service to the Emperor. Unfortunately, the Chapter’s judgement is not infallible, and there have been some instances when the Redeemed have tried to renege against the Chapter, only to be prevented by the skilled Redemptor Captains. If the Unforgiven or the Imperium discovers this secret, the Knights Seraphic would face certain extinction.

 

Too many manys. You also don't explain why the decision was made - or how the practice arose. And duel is spelled, well, duel. It's also a little too clinical - this is the sort of thing that should be all mysterious and ostentatious and such.

 

Try something like:

 

"Over the millenia many Fallen have been hunted down by the Redemptor Fleets of the Knights Seraphic. Some have died screaming, but others have repented. Those few who repent face a Redemptor Champion in single combat, to purify their souls in battle. The even fewer who win such fights take the place and name of their slain opponent. They receive one more chance to die for the Emperor, one more chance to be an Angel of Death, and one more chance to redeem themselves from the damnation that all Dark Angels face."

 

The point of this is to try and close the section on a slightly dramatic note - with a bang, not a whimper. Leave a sense of something bigger, of the dangers and dooms that hang over the Chapter - capturing something of the nature of redemption would be nice, too, but that's a lot to ask for in a single paragraph. ;)

 

The homeworld of the Knights Seraphic is a feudal world named Ciasus, which largely consists of large rolling plains, with occasional forests, and is located in the Segementum Tempestus.

 

As a feudal world Ciasus originally possessed low technology, with the world only being on the cusp of gunpowder technology when the Chapter first encountered it. When the Knights Seraphic named Ciasus their homeworld, their new recruits were natives of this world, and so they sympathized with the people of the world. Therefore, they helped develop and accelerate the technological progress of the world while establishing a PDF force.

 

Who cares? Tell me about the knights! About the planetary culture! About what the people valued that made them good recruits!

 

The Chapter’s Fortress Monastery is located in the northern mountain range of Ciasus, its high altitude meaning that only the most determined enemies can reach it. The Fortress Monastery is built into two mountains and follows the standard design of all Fortress Monasteries. The only deviance is the addition of set of high security cells located deep underneath the mountains. It is here that the Knights Seraphic holds its imprisoned Fallen.

 

Fortress Monasteries don't have a standard design...

 

In their relations with the people of Ciasus, the Knights Seraphic do not intervene with any events, feeling that any mistakes that are made by the people are mistakes that must be learned from. Indeed, the Chapter will only intervene when they feel it is necessary, when the integrity and ultimate safety of Ciasus is in question. The Chapter also do not feature politically in the planet’s Government. The Knights Seraphic, in turn, has been influenced by the Knightly Orders, taking on a great many of their beliefs. Therefore they consider their greatest duty to be the protection of the people on every world of the Imperium.

 

The home world section doesn't tell us much about the people, about why the Chapter is as it is, and is actually a little repetitive - the Knights clearly are fairly hands off - look at the Knightly Orders.

 

In addition, if the Knights are so hands-off, why did they improve the tech-level and found a PDF?

 

Circles within Circles. This defines the Dark Angels, and so too does it define the Knights Seraphic. An unofficial council of sorts has arisen in this noble Chapter. It is composed of the three most senior Captains in the Chapter, the two Redemptor Captains, and the First Captain. Each Captain gives regular reports of the Chapters wellbeing to the Chapter Master, and also advises him on many matters ranging from which battles to fight, which Companies to commit and so on. Together they form an unofficial council of equals under the Chapter Master, and are seen as some of the most heroic and powerful warriors in the entire Chapter.

 

Not really sure what this adds - either develop it further and fit it into things better, or just leave it out.

 

Organisation

 

Virtually this entire section could be replaced with: "The Knights Seraphic are generally a Codex Chapter. The notable exception to this is their Redemptor Fleets..."

 

I think that might not be a bad idea. TO&Es just aren't particularly isn't very interesting.

 

There have been many examples in history where the Knights Seraphic have utilized the two fighting styles of their Chapter to great effect. The fortress of Nehemiah, one of the Fallen, who enslaved the entire population of the planet Apolytus, is one such example. A joint strike was performed by a Redemption Fleet, who infiltrated and invaded his Fortress, and the Fifth Company who engaged the bulk of his forces. By nightfall Nehemiah was captured, and his forces scattered.

 

This could be an interesting sidebar! ;)

 

One of the heroes of the battle against Hive Fleet Leviathan was First Captain Angrod Carnesir of the Third Company. His reinforcements tipped the balance of the battle in the Knights Seraphic's favour, Carnesir himself was as a mighty hero of old on the ground, striking down numerous Tyranid organisms with his sword. The skill of Carnesir is not only recognised within the Knights Seraphic, but among other Imperial organisations and other Space Marine Chapters. An astute tactician, and a deadly warrior in the middle of combat, Carnesir is found where the fighting is fiercest, leading his Marines from the front with sword and shield. It is this skill, bravery and leadership skills that saw him promoted to the Third Company, and there are whispers that he may be as strong as Auriel Karnak, the first Chapter Master of the Knights Seraphic. Only time will tell, but Angrod Carnesir continues to smite the enemies of the Emperor on many battefields, for the good of the Imperium and its people.

 

This...not so much. He's a fairly typical Space Marine captain, honestly.

 

Beliefs

 

This needs more development. Redemption is a little bit of a theme with this Chapter - explore it. Explore the hell out of it. :)

 

How do they feel about the Fallen and the other Dark Angels and the Imperium and the web of conflicting responsibilities that creates? Why do they allow the Fallen to be redeemed as they are? Redemption is important to this Chapter - talk about it...

 

* * *

 

It's damn good. The story's solid and interesting and the writing's coming along nicely.

 

However, the other sections don't feel like they're fully thought through yet - they seem more kitchen-sinky. It feels like you don't care as much about them. Try using those sections to provide more depth for things you brought up in the origins/introduction.

 

The Chapter seems to have two big focuses - redemption and duty. There's a lot yet to be milked from those - and I am 100% confident you could supply the local dairy if necessary. ;)

 

EDIT: To put crass numbers on things, I'd say the actual narrative is at about 95% - but the other sections are more around 65%. Fortunately, the narrative is far harder. :P

Edited June 18, 2010 by Octavulg

[DarkGuard]

Thanks again Octavulg, you have been a great help during this IA. And good to see you back, I hope all has been well.

 

Now to business :D.

 

The first few comments on the paragraphs are valid, as in my writing could be better and tightened. I may have to shamelessly nick the examples and use them as inspiration to get the rest of the writing flowing. Thank you in advance.

 

Who cares? Tell me about the knights! About the planetary culture! About what the people valued that made them good recruits!

 

I initially assumed that the homeworld part of the IA was just a description of the planet, it went completely over my head that it would be the culture as well! I'll do my best to get that in quickly, I'm anticipating a couple of days off work soonish. But don't worry, they will be well thought out and hopefully written ok. I'm thinking that the entire culture will be based on honour and duty to each other, kind of caste like but not so restricted. Like from a farmer's family, the people consider it their duty to the local populace to provide and trade food with them, and to slack at that is shameful.

 

Fortress Monasteries don't have a standard design...

 

I thought everything about the Imperium was standard design....

 

Fair enough, I'll take that bit out, and probably therefore give a nicer description of the place.

 

The home world section doesn't tell us much about the people, about why the Chapter is as it is, and is actually a little repetitive - the Knights clearly are fairly hands off - look at the Knightly Orders.

 

In addition, if the Knights are so hands-off, why did they improve the tech-level and found a PDF?

 

I thought that every Imperial World would get a PDF, even if they had a Chapter based there. I suppose though that the skeleton force plus local inhabitants on the world could effectively outclass any PDF force. Consider this bit 'snipped'.

 

Not really sure what this adds - either develop it further and fit it into things better, or just leave it out.

 

This was originally a throw back to the earlier idea of a Luna Wolf Loyalist Successor, plus a reason to try and make my Captain on the table top sound better. May be best to remove it and possibly add it into a compilation later, so I at least remember it.

 

 

Virtually this entire section could be replaced with: "The Knights Seraphic are generally a Codex Chapter. The notable exception to this is their Redemptor Fleets..."

 

I think that might not be a bad idea. TO&Es just aren't particularly isn't very interesting.

 

Sorry, TO&Es? I thought that was pretty much how it was set out anyway, with me skimming over the fact that they are Codex organisation apart from Redemption Fleets.

 

This could be an interesting sidebar!

 

It's just a small example of the Redemption Fleets and Battle Companies working together. Thought sidebars generally added the odd bit of information that hasn't been touched on before. Now I think about it though I reckon this could work well.

 

This...not so much. He's a fairly typical Space Marine captain, honestly.

 

This to the compilation then :D

 

Me trying to make the First Captain seem cool.

 

 

This needs more development. Redemption is a little bit of a theme with this Chapter - explore it. Explore the hell out of it.

 

How do they feel about the Fallen and the other Dark Angels and the Imperium and the web of conflicting responsibilities that creates? Why do they allow the Fallen to be redeemed as they are? Redemption is important to this Chapter - talk about it...

 

I'll look into this and expand it then, should be interesting to do.

 

It's damn good. The story's solid and interesting and the writing's coming along nicely.

 

However, the other sections don't feel like they're fully thought through yet - they seem more kitchen-sinky. It feels like you don't care as much about them. Try using those sections to provide more depth for things you brought up in the origins/introduction.

 

The Chapter seems to have two big focuses - redemption and duty. There's a lot yet to be milked from those - and I am 100% confident you could supply the local dairy if necessary.

 

I must admit a couple of times when I read through I felt the later bits weren't as good as the original story, but I wasn't sure what to do with them exactly if you get my meaning.

 

EDIT: To put crass numbers on things, I'd say the actual narrative is at about 95% - but the other sections are more around 65%. Fortunately, the narrative is far harder.

 

It's good to put numbers on things, now it's time to get those 65%s higher :D.

 

Thanks again Octavulg, I'll take my time with the changes but try to get this out as soon as I can.

Edited June 19, 2010 by DarkGuard